There is a difference in the cards, I forget what the size is on the other. One package is Yellow and the other is Red.(we want the Red) I'll try and figure out why my pic is not working from photo bucket.

Dorb said:

To insert a picture: First open the picture in Photobucket and right click, choose "copy location". Then use Insert/edit photo (the icon that looks like a postcard) here. left click on the frame once and then press ok.

Thanks, now I know,,,and that;s half the battle.

A local player bought the mats at our store. They are very nice, but much to small for the games we play at the store. They would be perfect for use at home with 2-4 players though.

I've got both halves of the mat and have played 4vs4 games easily. I'm sure that you could successfully have 6-a-side games on that size of surface, perhaps even larger. The maps are perfect for a 6x4 foot table IMO, there's just enough space left on 2 sides to place the aircraft's control boards.

IRM said:

That is still rather small, we usually have 6 players or possibly eight. When we have more than that we turn the map around and use the Blue max/Canvas eagles rules instead since we think they work better with larger games (just my own and my players opinions, we think Wow gets a bit slowed down with many players while Blue max usually takes about the same time if you are 4 or 16 players). We have made conversion rules so we can use the same pilots for both games

But a map should be enough for 8 players and a frontline, some targets, balloons and 2 airstrips. If everything gets to close the game tends to be reruns of the old games. Force the players to fly a bit before bombing or observing something.

Maybe they should add some more parts for the map, 2 more at least so we can get enough space.

If you're trying to fit a couple of airfields, balloons etc onto the map and still have 6+ aircraft then yes, it will be a bit crowded. Even my 6x4' table might be a little too small for that ! If I'm using larger numbers of models then it's usually just a straight team dogfight game, or perhaps an attack on an airfield where one side starts on the ground. For most games involving balloon busting or ground targets I usually only use up to 4 planes per side.

IRM said:

We use a hotz 45"*72" mat for our combats and the only reason we don't put 2 together and play on is that no one own a table that size. We are usually 6-14 players so the size is good but for the 12+ games I wouldn't have mind to have access to a huge table and use 2 mats.

And no, we aint playing on a table, you have to have some standards

I've enough trouble getting one other player let alone 14 !

I did look at using 1/300 scale aircraft (I think Litko do WOW compatible bases that would fit most models) when I decided to pick up models for the game (the cards are fine, but models always look better IMO). They'd be roughly the same size as the planes on the cards, so they'd be easier to use in large numbers. However, that would have meant making a load of manouvre card sets, not to mention painting them up (I'm not a bad painter, but the markings and German hex camo would be a bit more than I could accomplish. Not to the standard of the 1/144 official models anyway). I've got quite a few models now, about 24 single seaters and a half dozen bomber/recon types. With the increased prices I probably won't go for many more, likely just a couple of Rumplers and perhaps a couple of Albatros IIIs.

IRM said:

My old Blue max campaign some years ago or so had a lot of planes in micro scale (1/300). If you buy the plane from Skytrex you get decal sheets and can also buy the lose for that scale. It is also a lot cheaper but micro models are comparably ugly so we went into 1/144 a long time before Wow released.

At the time we didn't use any altitude rules whatsoever (really deadly) and therefor just used Warhammer epic stands and glued the planes on.

As for the prices you can use red eagle models instead of Wow planes if you have patience and time. They look as good (check my review thread a bit down) and are a lot cheaper than Wow planes if you buy many of them (you need to order a few at the same time since freight is them the high however. But you do need colours and a lot of time, it takes a few hours a plane to make them look good. www.skytrex.com . I prefer the Wow planes myself if they exist for the plane, you get the cards and the stand, and don't have to spend all the work on them but for bombers and other planes that doesn't exist yet for Wow. Many of my players use the RE models out of economical reasons however since we put in an oredr every 3 month or so together.

Wow still misses many of my favorite planes.

I like the larger 1/144 models better too, and had a look at the Red Eagle planes before picking up any models. Nice enough kits, but since there'd still be the need for card sets (if you use multiple planes of the same type) and flight stands (although you could get away without them and just use markers) I thought I'd be as well going for the official WAW ones. There are gaps in the model range, as well as the card planes in the game, but there is enough of each "class" of plane to suit me e.g. slower and manouvreable like the Nieuport or fast like the Spad XIII. I have done minor repaints on a number of them since I like to have groups of the same plane rather than half a dozen different types per side. Usually just removing ace-specific markings from additional versions of the same plane and redoing the metal and wood parts on the earlier ranges (series 3 are fine as they are), but I've redone one Fokker triplane and two DVas as Jasta 2 aircraft (I already had Kempf's Fokker from Jasta 2, the other has been redone as Baumer's and the Dvas only needed to have the tail done in the squadron's half and half black and white scheme).

IRM said:

Well, we can't do that because of the way our campaign is built up. Basicly are we playing a game each month since the start of Verdun and adding new planes as they reached the front. The Wow model are just not enough, some of the gaps would be immense and we would miss some of the best planes from the war. Also since we start in early 1916 we wouldnt have a single plane for 3 months until Roland CII comes and half a year for the allied until we get Nieuport 17.

Cards are rarely a problem since many of them are in the boosterpacks but in some cases you have to asssign a manuever deck to the planes. As for the stands we use the same stands as we do for the Wow models, I have 20 or so Wow planes and we just glue on a cut of screw under the planes. There are other stands that works fine and can be bought in packs but we sometimes use a lot of altitudes so the Wow stands works perfect for us.

For just random games are there enough of the official planes but for a real historical campaign are the range very thin, particulary before january 1917 or if you play something else than the western front. Wow have a single austrian plane and few italian ones. I prefer the Wow models myselfin most cases but until we have enough of them released for our campaigns we just have to use either Red eagle or Reviresco models also.

I promise I will post a full description of our campaign rules rather soon with our mission cards (each side draw one), experience rules and other goodies. As I see it are the most satisfactory way to play a game like this in campaign mode with experience, medals, ranks and things like it. We have had players that actually cried (and we are talking 35 year old men here) when their pilots have been killed, we had triumphs and glory and death and tradgedy.

Tommorow is our next game and my pilot Ulrich Von Róth (leader of Jasta 9) is back after a months sick leave (he was involved in a crash and hurt his leg and arm). I can't wait even though I fear that Von Róths time can come anytime, 8 months is a long time for a fighter pilot and I had my share of luck. My first pilot Donner crashed behind enemy lines because of a a french plane touched his wing during our first game and become a POW (the french pilot was killed). Von Róth is now the oldest pilot we have and we just played 9 games yet, we still have 26 months left.

Cards and bases would have still have been a sticking point for me as I wouldn't have been picking up both WOW and Red Eagle models.

Really like the sound of that campaign, good campaign rules always add a whole new dimension to any miniatures system and often can be as interesting as playing the actual game itself (Babylon 5: A Call To Arms comes to mind, a personal favourite but sadly no longer being produced). I'll be very interested to see what you've done there. It sounds a bit like the old Red Baron PC game that Sierra used to do (I still play it, although it takes a lot of fiddling around to get it running on a modern computer), where you could start a pilot at the beginning of the war and play through to the end (barring death, permanent injury or imprisonment by either side of course).

IRM said:

Lol, no one have survived until December 1916. Out most experienced pilots have 3 kills each (Von Róth with his 4 died unfortunatly November). I think the oldest started in April 1916. Someone might have started earlier but are either currently a POW or have been out of action several time due to injuries.

But, yes it is the general idea. After every game we have a mail list with all living and dead pilots and so on. My computer is finally working as I should now (I had a burnt out DDR memory and my GFX card was starting to act wierd so I got a new 295) so I plan to translate and write down more stuff tomorrow.

I already have translated and fixed our mission deck (each side draw a card secretly before the start of each regular game). I wont post it until I have made all of the stuff into a .pdf document however.

But I am working on turning what we used dice tables into cards also. I do have some old rules for medals and ranks I used for a Blue max campaign many years ago, thinking about converting them too. It do add to the fun when you get a medal after doing something good, or raise in rank. The germans could even gain titles.

The whole idea that you keep your pilots the whole war makes the players more interested in the gameplay and even the ones that miss a game are interested to here who got more kills and who bought the farm. Some people paint specific planes for their pilots which they stop play with if the pilot dies.

I wish they could make something official like this

Official campaign rules that are more detailed than the tournament rules would be a welcome addition, but I doubt that'll ever happen since WAW is more game than wargame. Assorted house rules notwithstanding.

I've been mucking about with something similar to your campaign, but less detailed and on a smaller scale. Rather than running for the entire air war, I'm focussing on mid-1917 to the war's end (due to the models I have mostly, I can always use cards or pick up some third-party models if I really want to or use Albatros D5s as D3s with the appropriate deck etc. ). I'm not bothering to generate scenarios based on what really was happening at that point in the war. Basically, a random number of missions are played each week of the campaign. Each mission is picked randomly using a table which includes all the official mission types plus a number of my own concoctions (some of which don't always require to be actually played out if there's no enemy contact, some rare ones that are deliberately unbalanced). Each 5 kills lets a pilot pick a new trait (just the ones in the scenario rules at present) or take a "fate point" which can be used to increase his chances to escape death (downed pilots roll on a table to see what happens to them, with modifiers based on special damage. Explosions kill outright. Planes with severe damage have to roll to see if they get home and land safely). Kills scored go towards earning decorations (every 5), successful missions go towards earning promotions (every 10, if there's a position available).