I think that power creep is in some way a given, just as a meta is inevitable (re, the inevitable meta, Extropia makes a good case for that here). The only way to prevent power creep would be to have the newer stuff be less powerful than the older stuff.

What I would object to is if power creep were a marketing strategy by FFG, but it seems to me that (ACD Phantom notwithstanding) they do their best to keep the game as balanced as they can. Of course, they're only human and with every new wave the complexity and amount of unforeseen combinations increases. Even if they were to employ mathwing wizards (like MajorJuggler and Vorpal Sword), at some point imbalances would creep in. The best they can do is to keep things fluid so that the true efficiency peaks are changing and in need of being found.

TIE swarms, a completely wave 1 list, are still viable and very competitive. They are consistently in the top cut of major events. As soon as this is no longer the case, you can call power creep. Until then this is a non-starter.

The one major issue with this game right now regarding power creep is this.

New player asks I just started xwing wants to play interceptors what should I get

Answer:

buy interceptors expansion

But I order to make those work u need imperial aces

And you need to get the autothrusters coming with the next wAve

Just to make one ship work

The one major issue with this game right now regarding power creep is this.

That's not really power creep. It's not necessary to have autothrusters to make an Interceptor work, unless you're playing against a ton of turret lists.

Anyone who wants interceptors would most likely want an Imperial Aces box anyway, just for the sake of more interceptors.

Not really sure how the things you list are a problem let alone any form of power creep. Because a lot of that is true for any ship in X-Wing.

The one major issue with this game right now regarding power creep is this.

New player asks I just started xwing wants to play interceptors what should I get

Answer:

buy interceptors expansion

But I order to make those work u need imperial aces

And you need to get the autothrusters coming with the next wAve

Just to make one ship work

I would argue this is more marketing brilliance than it is a flaw in the game mechanisms themselves. Besides, nothing is forcing you to have to buy that stuff to play with an interceptor. Not everyone sees competitive play as their only means of enjoying/playing the game so ramping up to be 'tournament worthy' is certainly not a requirement....IMHO that is.

If those two-attack ships didn't have to kill ships with 13 hit points and two guaranteed evades per combat phase, people wouldn't complain about their lack of punch as much.

Power creep started in Wave 2 with the release of the YT-1300, and I think many of the game's problems stem from that ship.

Counterpoint: That underpowered 2-attack ship has been on the final table of every world championship since FFG started doing them.

So saying problems stem from the Falcon could not be any wronger!

The one major issue with this game right now regarding power creep is this.

New player asks I just started xwing wants to play interceptors what should I get

Answer:

buy interceptors expansion

But I order to make those work u need imperial aces

And you need to get the autothrusters coming with the next wAve

Just to make one ship work

Not FFG's fault everyone picked the lazy option and took falcons was it, people dictated the falcon heavy meta and made interceptors suffer not the DEV's.

Not FFG's fault everyone picked the lazy option and took falcons was it, people dictated the falcon heavy meta and made interceptors suffer not the DEV's.

Well, I do think that the high-PS ACD Phantom had something to do with the resurgence of the Falcon.

Also, if your observation is "people are lazy", and this is a function of human nature, then the developers should keep that in mind. They're not making this game for Jawas afterall.

There is such a qualitative difference between a 2 attack and a 3 attack that 3 attack really ought to be the standard for all comparison. So if a ship has only 2 attack, it needs something strong to compensate.

The Z-95 and Tie Fighter are cheap.

The A-Wing is manuverable and customizable (and- with Chardaan Refit, fairly cheap).

The Y-Wing is tanky, customizable and relatively cheap.

The Tie Advanced- before the Raider Reve is... What? Expensive, middling dial, not very customizable, etc. It has 1 great pilot, and is fairly tanky. But! 23 points of Tie Advanced gets 5HP and 2 attack dice. 24 points of Tie Fighter gets you 6HP and 4 attack dice.

Buffing the Tie Advanced doesn't so much create power creep, as it creates more good options for the same point spend.

The X-Wing isn't really in the same spot as the Advanced was, and it would be far too easy to buff it into over domination. But it really does need some good differentiator between it and the Z-95, it and the B-Wing, and needs to do that without intruding on the E-wing's role. Good luck Fantasy Flight!

The X-Wing may not be a "buff" in a clasic sense. But it does need some good reason to take it instead of its stablemates. Right now, it lacks that reason.

Well, since nobody seems to have addressed this...

Yes, this is a game and things like Balance matter... that is why bigger/better ships cost more than smaller/less capable ships. But, there is more to this game than just ship stats. The game is set in the SW universe and attempts (in a rather superficial, simplified manner) to simulate ships from that setting. Some ships are cheap, attrition units (TIE Fighter), others are heavy hitters (B-wing), some are general purpose, "jack-of-all-Trades, Master of None", ships (X-wing). The game stats for those ships should represent those differences... and do. Likewise, the points values for ship

The TIE Fighter is supposed to have only two lasers, so how would you justify a higher Attack value for it,when an X-wing (with 4 lasers) has an Attack value of 3? The YT-1300, specifically the Millennium Falcon, has two turrets with quad lasers. If we assume only one attack because each turret covers one hemisphere (attempt to translate a 3D universe into a 2D game), then what value do we attach to its weapons. FFG gave it an Attack value of '3' (same as the X-wing because they both represent the firepower of four lasers). What value would you give it?

My point is, I see the game as FFG attempting to translate "existing" ships (as in, the X-wing and TIE fighter existed before this game came along) into game stats. The ships are different and should have different game stats. Sometimes, ships have similar characteristics and capabilities (just like historical aircraft in our world) and should have similar game stats and/or maneuver dials. A lot of people complain or dismiss future game additions because they would be too similar to existing ships in the game. I say "so what!" That is the way things are in the SW universe (as in our real world), so what is the problem. Some will argue that each ship needs to be as unique or competitive as it can be, with little or no overlap or repeat. I say "BUNK!". If this were a game of WWII air combat, nobody would insist on that. Nobody would complain that Spitfire Mk. Is just aren't competitive against Me 262s. Nobody would insist on FAIR or BALANCED. All anyone would care is if each plane was a reasonable representation... and that the minis were cool. People wouldn't care if a Hurricane and a P-40 Warhawk had the same stats, they'd buy them because they want a Hurricane or P-40 Warhawk in their collection. I really do not see that much of a difference here. If a TIE Avenger has the same Attack value of a TIE Defender and the maneuver dial of a TIE Interceptor and the shields of a TIE Advanced... I don't care, because I WANT a TIE AVENGER... Just sayin'.

The problem and real challenge is to accurately reflect these different capabilities and stats into points values that are true to each ship's performance in the game. That is why I HATE games that try to create "Fair" and "Balanced" combat. Combat is NEVER fair and balanced unless at least one side has really screwed up. *Don't give me the argument about this being a "game" and "need to keep things interesting" or "easier for pick-up games". "BULL!" I have decades of gaming experience that proves otherwise.*

This has turned into more of an incoherent ramble than I hoped for but I guess if FFG chooses to introduce a ship from the SW universe, it should be a reasonable representation of that ship, with all its advantages and faults, whatever they be, as long as they can be translated into game terms. Some will shoot like others. Some will have the same evade. Some will have the same maneuver dial. Some will not be as competitive as others. That is the way things are in the "real" universe; that is the way things are in the SW universe. Why not that way in XWM?

24 points of Tie Fighter gets you 6HP and 4 attack dice.

If you're just going to add up attack dice, you should also note that it doubles the defender's defense dice.

...and needs to do that without intruding on the E-wing's role.

Blech! The E-wing should really not have purchase on design space over the X-Wing. It's not canon (yet, and probably not ever), and is not the eponymous ship of the game.

My point is, I see the game as FFG attempting to translate "existing" ships (as in, the X-wing and TIE fighter existed before this game came along) into game stats. The ships are different and should have different game stats. Sometimes, ships have similar characteristics and capabilities (just like historical aircraft in our world) and should have similar game stats and/or maneuver dials. A lot of people complain or dismiss future game additions because they would be too similar to existing ships in the game. I say "so what!" That is the way things are in the SW universe (as in our real world), so what is the problem. Some will argue that each ship needs to be as unique or competitive as it can be, with little or no overlap or repeat. I say "BUNK!". If this were a game of WWII air combat, nobody would insist on that. Nobody would complain that Spitfire Mk. Is just aren't competitive against Me 262s. Nobody would insist on FAIR or BALANCED. All anyone would care is if each plane was a reasonable representation... and that the minis were cool. People wouldn't care if a Hurricane and a P-40 Warhawk had the same stats, they'd buy them because they want a Hurricane or P-40 Warhawk in their collection. I really do not see that much of a difference here. If a TIE Avenger has the same Attack value of a TIE Defender and the maneuver dial of a TIE Interceptor and the shields of a TIE Advanced... I don't care, because I WANT a TIE AVENGER... Just sayin'.

I'm with you on most of this, because I'm also a devotee of the lore.

That said, I don't think that most people playing this game are there, and this game is aimed at them just as much as it's aimed at us.

Also, I think that you miss the point of balanced. Ideally, point cost would be the ultimate balancer, so that you could both model the in-world relevance of a particular ship while still making the game playable and competitive with all sorts of ships. Unfortunately, creating the perfect balance scheme is impossible, but it is still something that FFG should strive at (as they do).

The one major issue with this game right now regarding power creep is this.

New player asks I just started xwing wants to play interceptors what should I get

Answer:

buy interceptors expansion

But I order to make those work u need imperial aces

And you need to get the autothrusters coming with the next wAve

Just to make one ship work

Not FFG's fault everyone picked the lazy option and took falcons was it, people dictated the falcon heavy meta and made interceptors suffer not the DEV's.

What you would call being lazy, other people would call it being reliable.

The one major issue with this game right now regarding power creep is this.

New player asks I just started xwing wants to play interceptors what should I get

Answer:

buy interceptors expansion

But I order to make those work u need imperial aces

And you need to get the autothrusters coming with the next wAve

Just to make one ship work

Not FFG's fault everyone picked the lazy option and took falcons was it, people dictated the falcon heavy meta and made interceptors suffer not the DEV's.

Do people really need to buy 3 boxes sometimes on ships you don't even want just to fly one ship well?

That's a problem.

Turrets have been around since the interceptor came out in wave 2. Han shots first was a very strong build early on. Interceptors were ok initially but struggled fairly quickly after release and were the first recipient of an upgrade. It still wasn't all that. And now autothrusters are a third upgrade to a ship just to make it competitively viable. There is really no denying this fact since the devs flat out said in an interview that they included an upgrade for interceptors in wave 6. All power creep is doing is making people buy 2-3 expansions just to make a single ship viable. Not playing with most upgrades is not really an option either just look how popular the advance has been for your answer on that. One of the most iconic ships in game with one of the most iconic pilots rarely gets played.

If those two-attack ships didn't have to kill ships with 13 hit points and two guaranteed evades per combat phase, people wouldn't complain about their lack of punch as much.

Power creep started in Wave 2 with the release of the YT-1300, and I think many of the game's problems stem from that ship.

Except the two attack ties are the best tool to kill the 13 hull point yt's of this game.

New player asks I just started xwing wants to play interceptors what should I get

Get soontir fell.

Apart from ptl and royal guard title there is nothing really in the imperial aces needed to make interceptors work.

Apart from that I am shocked, shocked I tell you, that a company might make a product that you might want to buy.

**** those capitalist pigs!

The one major issue with this game right now regarding power creep is this.

New player asks I just started xwing wants to play interceptors what should I get

Answer:

buy interceptors expansion

But I order to make those work u need imperial aces

And you need to get the autothrusters coming with the next wAve

Just to make one ship work

Well, I would argue that if someone wants to play Interceptors, he should get a Interceptor pack for the pilots (Soontir and Turr) and then buy Imperial Aces because you get more bang for your bucks, not because it is necessary to make the Interceptor works.

If he only want to play one Interceptor, buy the Interceptor Expansion and a way to get Push the Limit (cheapest being A-Wing or the occasionnal E-Bay sales) and you're good to go: Soontir Fel+Push the Limit. The rest is icing.

I honestly think most problems with low-attack ships are due to jousting or the related statistics rather than a more holistic view of the ship in-game. Like others have said, you can compliment a 2-Atk ship quite easily with even just a single 3-Atk ship; I happen to be fond of a Green Squadron A-Wing as support for a Blue B-Wing, as the mobility of the A-Wing combined with its higher pilot skill means I can usually have it flank a target and fire first, potentially clearing tokens for the larger gun, while the opponent is likely only able to return fire at the healthier ship. If the A-Wing gets damage through at all it's gravy, because the damage spike of a harder attack is often more valuable than the same damage spread out across more red dice rolls.

But, then, I also think the Prototype acts as a great blocker for 15 points, and I have no qualms about spending three points over a Bandit Z to gain a green die, Evade, Boost, and the best dial in the game. But it isn't a general-use ship like the Headhunter, and comparing them is unfair.

The Headhunter doesn't need any help; it and the TIE/ln have excellent cost efficiency in a joust, and as such they like to force that situation. I'm much more likely to fly head-on at a 36-point Vader or Wedge than I am three TIEs or Zs. A-Wings don't quite qualify here because they're more expensive but won't provide any more damage head-on; they aren't being played to their strengths.

What else has two attack dice? The Y-Wing is fine, it has always had a turret slot, and now the BTL-A4 title makes for some interesting dogfighting options. The HWK is even weaker naked, but the turret slot, crew slot, and cheaper cost make it a solid support ship in the right squad. The TIE Bomber was designed as the cheapest ordnance platform in the game, and while the vanilla ship only has two attack dice, there isn't a single piece of ordnance that rolls less than three attack dice. The TIE Advanced got its fantastic fix, providing either an extra damage or perfectly consistent damage on every attack. Even the Scyk was given access to Cannons through a reverse-Refit, so you don't have to run it as a 2-Atk ship even right out of the box.

I think the only evidence of "Power Creep" could possibly be the 4-Atk Phantom, and even then the only reason the Phantom is powerful is because it's been loaded up to cost over 35 points to ensure that 4-dice gun isn't easily taken down. But, the vanilla ship is really rather fragile, and I feel it's balanced as well as it could have been (I think we'll see something similar once people have a handle on the HLC Heavy Scyk).

I feel "Power Creep" isn't the right term for what's happened to the game; if anything I'd say it's "Skill Creep." The average player has been getting better, and the average squadron hits harder. Yes, Worlds was dominated by three kinds of lists, but you can't expect top players to steer clear of powerful lists. I think where we're headed is going to be great, and I'm really excited for the upcoming tournament season, becuase I think a lot more options are going to be really very viable. A lot of different builds are going to have ways to do appropriate damage or gain board control, and player skill is going to become an even bigger factor. Your ship selection will still matter, and you'll have synergistic options like never before, but you'll absolutely have to know how to fly them, because you can bet your opponent is going to have a strong list too.

Well said, thank you.