Can Akachi seal a gate she closes using de Vermis Mysteris? I played 'no' (not that it mattered at all in the game it happened in, Used Vermis Mysteris to win by closing instead of sealing). Still, Akachi says she can always seal, 'regardless of other game effects', where Vermis Mysteris says the gate can't be sealed.

Well... it's not like that ability is going to come into play anywhere else...

flamethrower49 said:

"No One Can Help You Now" ? Craziest thing I can think of would be the Science Building encounter where you roll a die for each open gate (not sure if that's actually legal or not).

Yes, everybody knows the "No One Will Help You Now" thing. I meant besides that. We actually drew that card when Akachi was in to seal, but it went away before she came out. Big help there.

Aldebaran Ascendant is another mythos card that says you can't seal or close gates to Another Dimension. How do we feel about that? On the one hand, it says you can't close those gates, indicating that Akachi's ability to seal is useless. On the other hand, maybe she can ignore that and seal anyway?

There's a mythos card that closes a gate, which, it could be argued, might work if Akachi was the first player.

What else?

funny thing about the science building encounter: it doesn't *say* gates closed via that encounter can't be sealed. It says you don't get the gate trophy. So Akachi's ability really doesn't come into play there at all, it's just interpretation of the encounter.

Even though it doesnt come up much, the chance to seal a gate without exploring it is powerful stuff. I'm still on the fence about all this. Still, yeah, it would be nice if her ability wasn't restricted to 1-2 mythos cards.

It doesn't matter that Akachi's ability to always seal will only come into play rarely. It can be extremely useful when it does come into play (with No-one can etc). And it isn't her main ability anyway, it is a little extra plus. If you feel let down that this ability won't come up very often, just focus on her other stuff.

- Mariana the ex-nun cultist

I don't think we're asking for it to come up often. We just want more than one (maybe two?) instance(s) where it could be used. Not something that only comes up in the most extreme corner case. It's strange looking at her three abilities. One fewer clue token needed to seal is good, saving a few clues over the course of the game. But that's not enough to make an ability for a character, so they added more. The +1 to seal is an ability duplicated by six other characters, or anyone whose Fight or Lore goes up to six. And she can always seal gates, whatever that means. She's still a fine character by all accounts with an amazing story. It's just sad when an ability is never used. The relative liklihood of drawing No One Can Help You Now in a game with Akachi and have her get to seal before the environment goes away is just crappy. It's something that deserves to go on a stat report. "Akachi helped us now!"

Perhaps we are underestimating the importance of the one less clue token to seal thing. It's a clue saver ability, so what other characters are clue-savers?

But first, why does it matter? Well, clues are what we use to seal gates, sealing gates is the primary road to victory. Duh. Why else? Because any character who saves clues saves time. Time is the most precious resource in Arkham Horror. Enough mythos cards and the investigators will be wrecked. This is why I feel that Find Gate is possibly the most powerful spell in the game. Everyone can at least agree, it's really frakking good to save yourself a turn. And *that* is why Akachi's one-less clue to seal is great.

Patrice, Joe, and Roland are the other clue-savers I can think of.

Patrice is a clue generator. She's a beast, so we won't go into her.

Joe is a clue-saver, in a way, in that he has to spend less of them to get the results he wants. But this doesn't help him seal gates, which obviously, is Akachi's primary role. I hesitated to even include him in this list, I don't think his ability is really comperable, because it doesn't really save time.

Roland is a clue generator. He's an interesting one. His ability as-is is nice, but it really shines with his story complete, however, since story's aren't always compareable and Akachi's story is just as awesome, we won't take abilities into account. Pretty much, Roland easily aquires 2 clue tokens. From 0-clue tokens to sealing clues, it takes Akachi 4 turns, assuming 1-at-a-time aquisition, to get seal clues. It takes Roland 4 turns as well, (but only 3 with his story complete). Er, however, this requires non-optimization on Rolands ability, as you will be both generating clues for yourself and picking them off the board at the same time in order to get the clues as fast as possible. Also, if 2-at-a-time aquisition is available (like Science building, or a location with 2 clues, even a clue-giving encounter), Akachi will get sealing clues as fast or faster than Roland. Generally, I find Roland isn't a gate-closer, as he has only 4's in closing stats. He is far better, I think, up in Innsmouth (he is the Fed, after all). Akachi is also a better choice with Illuminated Manuscripts/True Magic or other clue-generating items than roland because of her higher lore, sanity, and move.

Point I've been trying to make is that yes, although there are other investigators who save or generate clues, aside from Patrice, none of them really work in quite the same way as Akachi's. It's quite a good ability, and maybe it is enough to be a primary ability after all, and maybe we should just settle for Akachi's secondary being only when No one (else) can help you now.

flamethrower49 said:

If you play AH as it was playtested (one expansion at a time) No One can help you will come up about every 4 to five games. Rare but I wouldn't call it extreme. Of course environments only last a few turns (except in the case of No One can Help you Now which only seems to go away when I leave the room and Emily puts on the bottom of the Mythos deck).

In order to seal a gate, you must first close it. Akachi's ability only allows her to seal gates regardless of other game effects. If there is an effect that prevents her from closing a gate, then she can't seal it.

Akachi should be able to seal a gate after playing De Vermiis Mysteriis as that is her special ability.

Akachi would not be able to seal a gate to Another Dimension if Aldebaran Ascendant is in play because that card prevents closing a gate to Another Dimension.

awp832 said:

Don't forget Bob. At least five clues - if you want them - on completion of his (fairly easy) personal story, and more if other people have spare cash (3 more, even, if you save your own starting cash). If you're using Roland to seal gates you probably won't get more than that during an average game.

I think you have to count personal stories - and Roland, Patrice and Akachi all have clue-saving/generating ones, since completing his story turns him from an oblivious but fairly tough shopper/street sweeper into someone who can probably get two seals down even if the clues are mostly gone from the board. Roland and Bob's stories are fairly straightforward. Patrice's is fairly easy if other people have the cash to give her. Akachi's takes a bit longer, of course.

Also, Roland with a completed personal story and Mythos Lore is an amazing gate sealer! I doubt we'll see that combination again for a while...

cim said:

Haha, I had Roland + ML today. Also had Patrice around. Darn that "Stars Are Right", would've sealed Zhar without it.

Heh, not quite as great as Mythos Lore, I admit, but Roland with a research materials does the trick nicely, and is far easier to come by. =)

Forgot to mention, Roly-Poly also achieved the Pass-clause of his PS on the first turn, went to Hibb's Roadhouse for a Clue (hoping for a lucky Erica Carlyle encounter), got 2 Clues from an encounter, boom 5 Clues.