I am trying to determine how important beating PS8 is with variations of my current list (which includes a VI Echo, and an academy TF, currently at 96 points). What are the main PS8 threats, and is it worth init bidding against them specifically, while just accepting an init loss to PS9?

The main concerns at PS8 I have are non-VI Corran, Chiraneau, and to a lesser extent any one of the named X-Wing pilots.

PS9 is Han, VI Dash, and... Anything else? How many PS10 and 11 do people expect to see?

For reference, here is the list:

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic%20Empire&d=v3!s!70:98,23,-1:-1:-1:;78:27,36,46:-1:9:;10::-1:-1:

Note that I'd rather focus on what PS bidding looks like in the Wave 5 meta, rather than specifically talking about my list.

PS8 is also going to have VI Echo and Carnor Jax. Wes Janson without VI will be able to strip tokens before you shoot (though I think most people that take Wes will put VI on him) and I'd expect that Luke may see more table time now that Lone Wolf is available.

I'm thinking about running a farlander list with stay on target and I keep that list at 99 points so he can move after PTL superdashes because that's a large number of lists in my area.

Farlander with advanced sensors, HLC, Stay on target (41)

Blue squadron (22)

3 Bandits (36)

PS8 is also going to have VI Echo and Carnor Jax. Wes Janson without VI will be able to strip tokens before you shoot (though I think most people that take Wes will put VI on him) and I'd expect that Luke may see more table time now that Lone Wolf is available.

Do you think that VI+Echo or Jax are actually going to be major players in the store championship meta?

I'd agree with you about VI+Wes. I hadn't considered LW Luke or Corran, that would be hurty. Does LW Luke fit into an Outrider build?

Are you asking how it is in the current meta right now? As in for store championships?

Or do you mean how it will be in 3 months time after Scum & Villany and/or Tie Advanced fix hits?

If you are asking right now, then it depends. I think it goes to the whole complain about X-wings not being worth it. If you can fly well enough to cover different directions and cover the backs of your own ships, then it's not as important. For one thing, if you fire enough times at a Phantom, it will die, even if cloaked. I've seen a Phantom die after 3 shots at Range 3 and cloaked. Five fickle green dice don't always save you. Also, if you have enough X-wings firing at a Fat Falcon, it will take damage. You just have to watch out for arc dodgers and deal with them through superior flying. It's harder, but not impossible.

If you mean once all these various new ships come out.......I think we will be looking at a different meta come this summer. I mean, just look at 5 Scyk's w/ Mauler Cannons. They will rip apart a number of ships if flown well. Tie Advanced will also kick butt. I'm looking forward to the different ships and the ever changing meta this year.

PS8 is also going to have VI Echo and Carnor Jax. Wes Janson without VI will be able to strip tokens before you shoot (though I think most people that take Wes will put VI on him) and I'd expect that Luke may see more table time now that Lone Wolf is available.

Do you think that VI+Echo or Jax are actually going to be major players in the store championship meta?

I'd agree with you about VI+Wes. I hadn't considered LW Luke or Corran, that would be hurty. Does LW Luke fit into an Outrider build?

Luke with LW and R2-D2 leaves 8 points to play with if you are running a 58 point Dash.

I expect to see VI Echo flying with Decimators. Echo should be able to hang with Dash and get into his donut and will beat non-VI Dash and tie non-VI Chiraneau in the PS race.

I don't know that Jax will be making much of an appearance before Autothrusters but he does have the ability to get into range one of Dash and will keep him from being able to spend his focus tokens. Jax will be able to counter Ysane on Decimators and can take away that combat phase trigger for PTL.

Are you asking how it is in the current meta right now? As in for store championships?

I'd rather focus on what PS bidding looks like in the Wave 5 meta,

Yes, the current meta, specifically for store championships.

It sounds like putting a phantom at PS8 without an init bid at the least is going to be a mistake. There are just too many ships in play that can capitalize on an uncloaked phantom at PS8 to risk it (though it does nothing against VI Dash or Predator Han, so maybe it doesn't matter?).

Why not build to 100 so you can move your Phantoms last? Relying on the ACD to kick in with extra agility after you fire first is not nearly as safe as completely dancing out of arc at the last second.

Why not build to 100 so you can move your Phantoms last? Relying on the ACD to kick in with extra agility after you fire first is not nearly as safe as completely dancing out of arc at the last second.

Umm, you realize the player with the lowest point total gets to decide WHO gets initiative? So having a lower point build is actually better for losing initiative if that is indeed your strategy...

PS8 is also going to have VI Echo and Carnor Jax. Wes Janson without VI will be able to strip tokens before you shoot (though I think most people that take Wes will put VI on him) and I'd expect that Luke may see more table time now that Lone Wolf is available.

Do you think that VI+Echo or Jax are actually going to be major players in the store championship meta?

I'd agree with you about VI+Wes. I hadn't considered LW Luke or Corran, that would be hurty. Does LW Luke fit into an Outrider build?

Not really, but he can replace the Z escorts from a Fat Han build quite nicely.

Why not build to 100 so you can move your Phantoms last? Relying on the ACD to kick in with extra agility after you fire first is not nearly as safe as completely dancing out of arc at the last second.

Umm, you realize the player with the lowest point total gets to decide WHO gets initiative? So having a lower point build is actually better for losing initiative if that is indeed your strategy...

Can't arc-dodge a turret, so the intent would be to cloak before they can return fire. I'm also not super-confident in my ability to reliably arc dodge if going second, but maybe that just means I need to stop using the extra green dice as a crutch.

The only turret that I know of that matters at PS8 is Chiraneau, so maybe getting my pick of init doesn't matter as much as I was thinking.

Ptl Corran is one of the real ps8 pillars. If he moves after you it's bad news. If he has engine upgrade and moves after you then he can handle 70 points of **** near anything.

Why not build to 100 so you can move your Phantoms last? Relying on the ACD to kick in with extra agility after you fire first is not nearly as safe as completely dancing out of arc at the last second.

Umm, you realize the player with the lowest point total gets to decide WHO gets initiative? So having a lower point build is actually better for losing initiative if that is indeed your strategy...

Argh, I totally blanked on that as I wrote it. I normally build to 100 because I fly Rebs and initiative is normally not a huge problem.

Ptl Corran is one of the real ps8 pillars. If he moves after you it's bad news. If he has engine upgrade and moves after you then he can handle 70 points of **** near anything.

People will also be playing VI Corran with Dash to help against Phantoms. While not as powerful as PTL in a 1vs1 he does cover Dash from all Phantoms very well and can still solo pretty much any other big ship unless you get really really unlucky on your rolls (just evade+greens and let FCS do the dmg).

Why not build to 100 so you can move your Phantoms last? Relying on the ACD to kick in with extra agility after you fire first is not nearly as safe as completely dancing out of arc at the last second.

Umm, you realize the player with the lowest point total gets to decide WHO gets initiative? So having a lower point build is actually better for losing initiative if that is indeed your strategy...

Can't arc-dodge a turret, so the intent would be to cloak before they can return fire. I'm also not super-confident in my ability to reliably arc dodge if going second, but maybe that just means I need to stop using the extra green dice as a crutch.The only turret that I know of that matters at PS8 is Chiraneau, so maybe getting my pick of init doesn't matter as much as I was thinking.

I constanly run whisper in tournament and the one turret that scares me is PS 9 Fat Han. I'm usually checking in at 96 or 97 points(every now and then 98) just incase I run into it. I have thought about the PS10 decimator, but I have yet to see anyone run that in a tournament setting. It's almost always PTL or expose since PS10 doesn't do anything for a deci except against phantoms.

Against a Chiraneau, Echo is toast if he carries Vader or Gunner, so just put your other ships between Echo and Chiraneau. Against a PTL Corran, again, put your other ships between Echo and Corran (if Corran moves last) and deal with Corran's escorts using Echo.

If Corran chooses to move first (to shoot at you unclocked), which I think is a mistake, then Echo can easily arc dodge Corran if planned out ahead of time. VI Corran is built to kill Phantoms (I have one in my Dash list), so that will be a very close game no matter what.