Before everyone ran 1 charismatic because of (i think) olcadans. No fun getting a copy of a unique foundation into play.

Now that owlface has made the transition to sadface, do you think decks will run 4 charismatics? Its at least a better check than a seal in the negate wars...

I don't think most people will run 4. No one wants to get a bunch of them clogging your hand early game. Personally I will be trying out 3 Charismatic post bannings.

still a lot more than the

Cutting edge x1

Charismatic x1

that we saw in many order decks. Also split garbage foundations like anti-k, clones (in legacy) etc can't be tossed in.

And First Fs like dancing battler kabuki.

the removal Owlface/LotM completely flipped this game around (which is a good thing). If chesters was a 3/4 no block or something it wouldnt be so bad.

Im maybe somewhat surprised that owlface didnt just get a unique errata, a la red gi, but glad to see it go.

Actually, i think the combo of Owlface + Red Lotus + Chester's is what made people only run 1x. No fun in destroying Charismatic only to see it negated by Chester's..

I think they want to avoid power-level errata as much as possible...

In any event, yeah Charismatic is a 3-of I think. Giradot's is still a 0-of, unless you're Kula with Billiard Player or something

Personally I think a lot of foundations just got more playable and a few very much less, though I question how the powerlevel of it all will shift and if it will truly balance anything

Charasmatic - Up in power, probably still not 4 of a kind because of the unique stamp

Past shrouded in Mystery - Up in power, partailly because the low block helps replace the owl

Shadaloo Crime Syndicate - Also probably up on the powerscale

Total Global Domination - Up in power

Red Lotus - Way the hell up, as if it needed any more help. The irony is all the other foundation protectors are relativley the same powerlevel, this one just sky rockets because its ability to defend against ISpin now cannot be baited by owl or canceled with chesters.

Upholding justice - Remember this card? its still pretty limited in scope but its numbers def make it seem like a strong possibility.

Inhuman perception - Way up in power because of its ability to generically cancel things

Oral Dead, Controler of souls, Instant sucuess - Not sure how popular they were anyways but to be sure, way down in scale

Evil doer destoryer, No memories - Up in power because they replace the potential canceling chesters provided

Anti K - As if it needed any more, also up in power because its no longer as muich a liability

Without a care - Up, but not sure how much. It was already important for darkness blade builds, now the fact that it replaces the owl (sorta) makes it that much more interesting

Lesser of many evils - I think this card has now become unbelievabley strong. End it all as well but the cost on that one is at least pretty hefty.

dont agree with CoS. It negates seal, as well as any asset, and can no longer be chester-the-molestered

IMO it went up in power.

Controller is down a little bit, but it's still a strong contender for -- at the very least -- a couple sideboard slots.

I don't know how Total Global Domination went up in power, when one of its most popular victims just got banned...

Protoaddict said:

To add to your list... Make A Difference just got a whole lot better!!!

I feel like anything that pops itself to do something is inherently more powerful now simpily because you dont run the risk of losing a foudnation for nothing or being given a foundation that is likley to be found in the discard pile with an ability that will force it to wind up back in the same spot, often for no effect.

Protoaddict said:

100% agreed. Which is also why Death is going to be top tier, it has a lot of new and fancy support from Rasho that destroys itself. Not to mention, it already had a bunch of destroy tech pre set 12.

It also is the negation tech of choice post Chesters. It is ok in pre-ban meta... It is so much better now.

- dut

On the subject of Oral Dead, I feel Oral Dead is now better against Order, due to the fact that Olcadan's is gone. There is no more Owl/Program baiting going on. For Evil to beat Order its gonna need Oral & Lotus together. So imo I feel Oral Dead is better, as well as assisting Death negation line up.

maybe 4 charismatic but probably 3 or 2.

*raises hand*

I just want you guys to know, green cards are STILL going to be everywhere.

Owl may be gone, but that can only mean Seals will be ran in 3-4 in just about any deck that can run it (and by can, I mean that isn't already loaded with 3-checks or less). Also, Assassination Arts is still amazing, and I'm likely forgetting a lot of usable assets. Mark my words, Controller of Souls is still a necessity in whatever can run it, even if not in 4s.

And yes, Charismatic ought to be ran in 3s. It's just so usable.

MarcoPulleaux said:

There are lots and lots and lots of really good assets out there. We agree on this one.

Assassination Arts
Ayame's Scarf
Defender
Fantasy Shop, Comics and Games
Kings Games
Lynette's Shop
Scroll of the Abyss
Scroll of the Celestial Dawn
Seal of Cessation
The Evil-Doer Destroyer
White Gi
Wonderworld Comics
Wonderworld Warriors
Yasakani no Magatama

Those are truly the only assets that should be seeing any play, although there are a few character-onlies that might (unlikely) see play.

As such, CoS is still very much necessary to not just cancel asset's effects, but also, to stop asset destruction (the two scrolls and Yasakani kill assets, and they cover 8 symbols)

Man, I was wondering what was wrong, I was agreeing with Shinji...

right up till he named Yasakani no Magatama as one of the "only assets that should see play". What? Who plays that card? It's like a crappy Abyss/Dawn scroll, doubly so since it's an Enhance rather than a Form and with no other relevant abilities.

I can name a half dozen assets better than Yasakani that probably still won't see play.

I just built a secret project Q order/evil deck

I've always felt that Charismatic should not be unique since it blows itself up (ala cessation), or should be a commit if it's to stay unique.

Also, I've always found it hard to run more than one copy of almost any unique card, but that's just me. My only exceptions would be:

Giradot's Leadership (in gimmicky, fun decks)

Manacles

Hiesheng Jian

Ayame's Scarf

Combat Programming

Family Heirloom

Pseudo-Soul Calibur

Gainzende Nova and Frischer Hemmel

and Nadeshiko

MarcoPulleaux said:

You're missing Giant of a Man and Blue Dragon, for two. Dream Remnants (has a longer, hard to spell name; one of the SC4 Terrains) has already showed up in a couple regional decklists, although (a little bit ironically) it's a lot worse without Olcadan's for 0/6 fodder. On the topic of Terrains and 0diff assets, Cage Arena. You also missed Mysterious Stance. Then there's Crown of the Forgotten Secret, one brutal piece of DR against decks that like to Spike or Menuett Dance. Eiserne Drossel is free speed; ditto Robes of the Grandmaster (which is close to a character only, considering how amazing its Lu Chen E is). Family Heirloom sees some play for free momentum on its asset side, although I'll admit it's got a stronger action. Goverment Sponsorship is stupid, especially in say Leona or Yonhair (or any grey war deck, really). Oh, and there's Air Base, which undisputably sees play, both in the Multihobbyist mill deck and as a counter for Hanzokick and other shenanigans. Valeria's Shop sees a little play - Fred likes it, at least . And, I suppose they border on character only, but there are also a variety of weapon assets Astrid decks run.

Oh, and there's School Uniform, if your opponent is a pedophile it's a great distraction. Just keep waving it in his face and watch him crumble

I can see going to 2 or 3 charasmatic depending on the deck but I would never run 4.

It shouldn't have been unique. I had no problem with Lost Memories re-entering the game, which is what the card is, but better with the action side.

But that unique limits it to 2 post bannings imo. 3 is pushing it but doable. 4 is insanity.