Come to think of it, isn't AC + Ruthelessness (plus I'd probably go with EU) a great combo even without Cluster Missiles? It's gonna be a guaranteed three hits per turn quite often, especially against swarms.

How are you figuring three guaranteed hits? It will be two hit results every shot and if they aren't both canceled will cause damage to a ship within 1 of your target.

Ah, true, that third hit is dependant on the other two not being dodged. Still sounds good to me, I'm looking forward to trying it. It reduces the randomness quite significantly, though not, as you pointed out, completely.

Ruthlessness could pair really well with AC, potentially three hits at the cost of no offensive action and most likely a focus left for D. I like it.

No, with ATC Vader (as if there will be any other kind) you want what every two Red ship should take, Outmaneuver. (suck it, Goldenrod) Still leaves room for three more Tempest Squadron. Why else do you think they are including four in every Raider pack? Behold, the Advanced Swarm cometh!

Personally, I think ATC would be instantly not broken (but still really good) if it simply spent the Target Lock when it activated.

Advanced swarm! Oh how I have waited for this day!!!

No, with ATC Vader (as if there will be any other kind) you want what every two Red ship should take, Outmaneuver. (suck it, Goldenrod) Still leaves room for three more Tempest Squadron. Why else do you think they are including four in every Raider pack? Behold, the Advanced Swarm cometh!

Personally, I think ATC would be instantly not broken (but still really good) if it simply spent the Target Lock when it activated.

I believe that you'll get much more mileage out of Predator on ATC Vader than you will Outmaneuver. Predator is always going to work for you unless you are shooting at Dark Curse and ATC Vader doesn't really need any help with that match-up. If you've got multiple ships shooting at Han with C3PO, Outmaneuver doesn't really do anything for you unless all of your ships have it. I'd just as soon not have to worry about whether or not Vader is in the Falcon's arc and just be likely to do more damage that might get reduced with Vader so that his buddies are more likely to land damage.

Basic Mathwing (I am sure someone will follow up with better numbers)

With 2 dice you have a 25% Chance of getting 2 hits/crits negating any benefit from Predator, and an additional 18% chance of 1 hit/crit and a focus, and double focus results which may have a benefit from Predator only if you didn't focus or want to spend it on defense instead.

I won't bother going into the reroll mathwing (someone else will probably be better than me at that) but there is a chance those won't pay off.

Outmanuever has a 37.5% chance of doing nothing if your opponent focused and a 62.5% chance of doing nothing if he did not focus if there is only one agility die (Falcons, B-wings, Y-wings at less than r3) assuming you meet the condititions to trigger it[These numbers are the chance of your opponent not getting an evade, so cancelling the die would have no benefit]

If you give Vader Engine Upgrade, he can use his two actions to get in a better spot for either Predator or Outmanuever. Both are good. With Predator, though, you might not get the Focus action, though, if you are using him as an arc dodger.

There is also the possibility of getting within Range 1 of a ship with the double actions. This would increase your red dice by one and increase the value of Predator. Also, it's brutal against chump ships. I'd love to be at Range 1 of a PS 1/2 guy w/ Vader, Predator, and ATC. That's 3 dice w/ 2 re-rolls and a free crit on top.

I would rather have outmaneuver on Vader with the amount of people fielding Fat Han. If you don't happen to face Fat han/chewie it is still a pretty good card imo.

Basic Mathwing (I am sure someone will follow up with better numbers)

With 2 dice you have a 25% Chance of getting 2 hits/crits negating any benefit from Predator, and an additional 18% chance of 1 hit/crit and a focus, and double focus results which may have a benefit from Predator only if you didn't focus or want to spend it on defense instead.

I won't bother going into the reroll mathwing (someone else will probably be better than me at that) but there is a chance those won't pay off.

Outmanuever has a 37.5% chance of doing nothing if your opponent focused and a 62.5% chance of doing nothing if he did not focus if there is only one agility die (Falcons, B-wings, Y-wings at less than r3) assuming you meet the condititions to trigger it[These numbers are the chance of your opponent not getting an evade, so cancelling the die would have no benefit]

Outmaneuver has a 100% chance of doing nothing if you are in your target's arc. That's more what I was implying.

The breakdown on effectiveness of each of the EPTs when their conditions are met is helpful information though.

I'd still take Vader with Engine Upgrade and Expose, and Advanced Targeting Computer, of course. If the three red dice come up with blanks, I'd just spend the target lock and reroll. If I have a target lock from last turn, I get 3 dice with focus and the guaranteed crit. That's 5 potential hits at range one.

Expose isn't that great on Vader. I have tried it a few times and it makes him too easy to kill for such an expensive ship. ATC gives him a damage boost without hurting his defensive capabilities for no extra cost.

Expose isn't that great on Vader. I have tried it a few times and it makes him too easy to kill for such an expensive ship. ATC gives him a damage boost without hurting his defensive capabilities for no extra cost.

well.. 1 extra cost.. ATC is 5 points, and the X1 removes 4 points of cost..

I freaking love how Vader+ATC+EU+3pt EPT is 37pts so you can run him with 3 AC/SJ Tempests.

Advanced swarm led by the dark lord himself, it's a beautiful thing.

I don't think anything that stresses Vader out is a good idea. He already gets 2 actions, which is great. You start stressing him and you start making him predictable. That's never a good thing.

Agreed, the advanced doesn't not shed stress very easily. My one exception is Maarek with opportunist because he can seriously lay some hurt with multiple crits.

Expose isn't that great on Vader. I have tried it a few times and it makes him too easy to kill for such an expensive ship. ATC gives him a damage boost without hurting his defensive capabilities for no extra cost.

Don't use Expose, if you expect Vader to be fired on. At PS 9, that should be easy. It is either turtle with evade and focus, or getting out of arc with boost and barrel roll or fire with target lock and expose.

I think Expose would be a viable option for several ships.....if it didn't cost so much. If you take the points out of it, it's tough to want to lose your action to gain the extra attack. The averages are better for you to TL or Focus on your ship than just get another unalterable die roll. Only when you already have a TL or can get a 2nd action (PTL, Vader, other ship) does it become worth it. The problem after that....is that it costs 4 more points! You need to pay for something else to make Expose work, but then you have to spend even more points (through other EPT, other ship, or special ability of special pilot) to use it. It just costs too much.

Expose isn't that great on Vader. I have tried it a few times and it makes him too easy to kill for such an expensive ship. ATC gives him a damage boost without hurting his defensive capabilities for no extra cost.

Don't use Expose, if you expect Vader to be fired on. At PS 9, that should be easy. It is either turtle with evade and focus, or getting out of arc with boost and barrel roll or fire with target lock and expose.

let's see here:

- Expose costs 4 points

-Expose costs an action

-Expose reduces your agility by 1 (on a ship that relies on green dice)

-Expose takes up your EPT slot

And all that to gain +1 attack?

Frankly, i dont see it. Maybe if it didnt reduce agility by 1 (like on decimators), but that's just too much to pay.

Predator (or Lone Wolf) seems like a much better choice.

I agree, Vader will be seen most with ATC and predator I think. That gives him the same 1 damage bonus with no downside for 1 point. Including expose raises his cost 4 points and for that cost you could add the engine upgrade and be very hard to hit. If running Vader as a flanker I think lone wolf could be awesome!

I have played two games now with the tempest and AC and I am starting to think it might be the best bargain or the imperials yet. I used to think the OGP with AdvS and engine was the best bang for the buck but it might have met its match. Always having a focus for defense makes the Advanced work much more then 3 hull and 2 shields.