can i ask you all something...

What do you think the ATC and AC title stuff does for the advanced other than simply making it cost effective enough to field?

I have tried to make a few interesting squad ideas and simply cannot. It seems like there isn't much extremity or min maxing to do. Its just that they do damage. Trying to do something with crits or tankiness or action denial tends to be too expensive.

It feels like the ship is fixed, has a good point cost, but doesn't do much past that.

One possibility is tanky support fighters: Kenkirk + 2 adv AC.

Another is 3 PS9s, but this has mostly been done before. I find it pretty boring to be honest: Vader, Soontir, Whisper.

Soontir + 3 adv AC.

Commander Alozen and Maarek Stele will be good of course, but here are all the possibilities I see for them.

Alozen: great EPT holder for 4 more points. DTF is my fav atm. Wingman good too. Ruthlessness.

Maarek will be excellent vs Empire. Ties. Crits are good against unshielded ships. The crits probably hurt also for large hull amt ships. So many Adv are good against Decimator and Falcons? And ties. but likely not Bs or Zs (not any better than any other ship).

What does AC adv do? I feel like not much other than being tanky and constant.

What exactly is Vader's role? What does he do? How is he different from Soontir?

For the generics, the Accuracy Corrector gives them a consistency that even Howlrunner can't provide.

Alozen is designed around the Advanced Targeting Computer. He is also nice to set up short range missiles like Proton Rockets or Cluster Missiles. The cheap cost is also handy.

The opening up of Maarek's Elite Talent gives him a lot of options. More than he has had before. With the various high hull ships running amok, getting a choice crit can be handy.

Vader brings durability that Fel doesn't have. And while Fel will have a bit more maneuverability of Vader, his extra life can help him out of a bad spot. Also, not stressing himself can be helpful as it seems more control options are getting popular.

I think Vader can take on various roles now. Squad leader is even better on him now if you run AC and don't need an offensive action for rolling hits. He will also be extremely manuverable with an engine and can arc dodge very well at PS 9 and incredibly well at PS 11. I think he could be a nice phantomish ship that's hard to pin down and hard to land a hit on. The Advanced now has lots of options for roles to play.

Opportunistic Pack

Vader + ATC + Opportunist + EU

Maarek + ATC + Opportunist

Alozen + ATC + Opportunist

= 100 points

Because no pilot is able to stay focussed in an ongoing space combat.

Opportunistic Pack

Vader + ATC + Opportunist + EU

Maarek + ATC + Opportunist

Alozen + ATC + Opportunist

= 100 points

Because no pilot is able to stay focussed in an ongoing space combat.

I dont see the point on Vader. Since he will always be shooting first it's unlikely the enemy wont have any tokens. Plus the Advanced doesnt have a lot of green maneuvers.

Opportunistic Pack

Vader + ATC + Opportunist + EU

Maarek + ATC + Opportunist

Alozen + ATC + Opportunist

= 100 points

Because no pilot is able to stay focussed in an ongoing space combat.

I dont see the point on Vader. Since he will always be shooting first it's unlikely the enemy wont have any tokens. Plus the Advanced doesnt have a lot of green maneuvers.

Opportunist doesn't work well on Vader but it is Amazing on Maarek after Vader. Now with ATC he has the possibility of multiple crits that will wreck someone's day! I have been running Maarek with opportunist since it came out and I think it has been one of the best kept secrets. Maareks ability can be incredibly powerful.

What about AC + Cluster Missiles + Ruthlessness?

What about AC + Cluster Missiles + Ruthlessness?

That sounds like it might be good, a double assault missle.

Every time I read the title of this thread I put it to Katy Perry music.

I proxied a card and I liked it.

The taste of its System Slot.

Good god, why didn't I think of ATC, EU and VI on Vader? An arc dodging Sith Lord who what MUST shoots first. It's...so...beautiful...

What do you think the ATC and AC title stuff does for the advanced other than simply making it cost effective enough to field?

...

What does AC adv do? I feel like not much other than being tanky and constant.

What exactly is Vader's role? What does he do? How is he different from Soontir?

The Tie Advanced doesn't break the game. It isn't like the Phantom. For one, it's a mid-point option for Imperials that doesn't exist at the moment. If you have 25 points left to spend, what do you put it on?

Next, being consistent is a great thing and not to be underestimated. For one, the movement dial is almost identical to the most average of ships: the X-wing. It can go 5 forward, though, and it does have Barrel Roll. That's always a plus. Also, it has 3 agility and 2 shield, which is good to consider on it's own. It's better when you consider the upgrades.

Auto Corrector allows you to get 2 hits no matter what you roll. You roll...and maybe you do better and keep it. If it's not better, then you swap it for 2 hits. This means you don't have to use an action to adjust your attacks if you don't want to. So, you use an Evade or Focus defensively while you always get the hits. This means that you have 3 hull, 2 shield, 3 evade dice, and a Focus or Evade every turn. Or maybe arc dodge and barrel roll. The finish touch, though, is that you don't have to use AC or act defensive. Let's say you get within Range 1 for a prime shot. Use your TL and fire away with 3 dice.

To sum that up, it's the same points as an X-wing, but a 5 forward, the ability to barrel roll, 3 green dice (instead of 2), and doesn't have to spend the action on offense to get the same averages.

Vader is different than Soontir because he doesn't have to get stressed to use 2 actions. His dial isn't as agile as an Interceptor, but he also has 2 shield. He also has Target Lock. Also, if you give him Adv. Targeting Computer, he will always get a critical hit if he gets any hits at all. This can be game changing if you face large ships or just a few elites. This ability is only 1 point more than his base.

I've been thinking about Darth Vader and the ATC for him as an almost sure thing, but I've started to wonder. If he went to high level tournaments and faced off a lot of Fat Hans, he might want to go with AC instead. Will he do less damage? Surely, but he will be able to turtle up a lot better. Give him a Focus and Evade every round and it will be hard to kill the guy. That alone might make him the better option.

Has anyone played a proxy game with 4 Tie Advanced vs. Fat Han? I'd love to see the results.

If you have 25 points left to spend, and don't want a Doomshuttle or 2 TIEs, what do you put it on?

FTFY

I've been thinking about Darth Vader and the ATC for him as an almost sure thing, but I've started to wonder. If he went to high level tournaments and faced off a lot of Fat Hans, he might want to go with AC instead. Will he do less damage? Surely, but he will be able to turtle up a lot better. Give him a Focus and Evade every round and it will be hard to kill the guy. That alone might make him the better option.

Has anyone played a proxy game with 4 Tie Advanced vs. Fat Han? I'd love to see the results.

Against Fat Han Vader needs ATC. Accuracy Corrector will guarantee two hits but you'll never get more than that if Han keeps you out of range 1. Even if you end up in range 1 you don't have much of a chance to land 3 damage while you are taking focus and evade actions. MF title + C3PO is pretty much the defensive equivalent to Accuracy Corrector. If it gets down to just Han and Vader, Han just needs to wait out the timer for the win.

ATC gives you almost about a much consistency as Accuracy Corrector but with much higher damage output. ATC has the ability to punch through C3PO and an evade token and when it does it is dealing a crit. Also, there's no real defensive bonus for taking AC over ATC against a Falcon. You take a single TL against the Falcon and from that point forward you can Focus and Evade for your actions every round, just like you can with AC.

Come to think of it, isn't AC + Ruthelessness (plus I'd probably go with EU) a great combo even without Cluster Missiles? It's gonna be a guaranteed three hits per turn quite often, especially against swarms.

You take a single TL against the Falcon and from that point forward you can Focus and Target Lock for you actions every round, just like you can with AC.

You should only have to target lock once against Han till he blows up since ATC doesn't spend your target lock. Did I miss something?

You take a single TL against the Falcon and from that point forward you can Focus and Target Lock for you actions every round, just like you can with AC.

You should only have to target lock once against Han till he blows up since ATC doesn't spend your target lock. Did I miss something?

Oh! No, it's not! I think he meant focus and evade!

Except that you won't always get 2 hits that way. You might need the Focus to actually put the hits in. I understand that you will most likely get at least one hit and then the free critt, so that's about the same, but you might flub your roll. The Vader w/ AC will always save his Focus and Evade for the defense. Not so with the Falcon. Still, I see your point.

It's true that just Vader w/ AC vs. Fat Han isn't enough, but who said just Vader w/ AC. If you took Vader and other Tie Advanced with AC then you won't see the Falcon taking out a ship each round. That's where the two hits from each will come into play.

Good god, why didn't I think of ATC, EU and VI on Vader? An arc dodging Sith Lord who what MUST shoots first. It's...so...beautiful...

With ATC Vader, you want predator... it works well and can be brutal. Though.. I did have good dice that day I tested it.. lol the other tempests with AC were usually rolling 2 hits..

You take a single TL against the Falcon and from that point forward you can Focus and Target Lock for you actions every round, just like you can with AC.

You should only have to target lock once against Han till he blows up since ATC doesn't spend your target lock. Did I miss something?

You missed me typing Target Lock instead of Evade. Thanks for catching that.

Except that you won't always get 2 hits that way. You might need the Focus to actually put the hits in. I understand that you will most likely get at least one hit and then the free critt, so that's about the same, but you might flub your roll. The Vader w/ AC will always save his Focus and Evade for the defense. Not so with the Falcon. Still, I see your point.

It's true that just Vader w/ AC vs. Fat Han isn't enough, but who said just Vader w/ AC. If you took Vader and other Tie Advanced with AC then you won't see the Falcon taking out a ship each round. That's where the two hits from each will come into play.

Throw Predator on Vader and you are usually going to end up with 3 hits. Even without a time limit, Fat Han with just 5 hull left is going to beat just about any version of Vader with Accuracy Corrector in a one on one situation almost every time. The exception might be Vader with Outmaneuver. I think ATC Vader and 3 Tempests will be able to take out a Fat Han but if they aren't able to pour on the damage quick enough and it ends up Han vs. a single ship the Han is almost always going to win, even if he is down to the last point of hull and facing a full health Tempest.

If you are taking Vader or Maarek I can't think of any reason to take Accuracy Corrector instead of Advanced Targeting Computer. Without modifying rolls, the average number of hits from a ship with an Accuracy Corrector is going to be the same as from a ship with a 4 dice attack. If you spend a target lock or a focus the on both attacks the 4 dice attack gets slight better odds. The 4 dice attack does have the advantage of a higher max damage but can also end up with no hits. A three dice attack that uses either a focus or target lock is only slightly better than an ATC attack with no modifiers.

AC may be better if all you are fighting are swarms of Z-95s since you'd lose the action economy from hanging on to the same TL for multiple rounds. AC may also pass up ATC if Expert Handling comes out of nowhere to become the must have card of the Wave 6 meta or if everyone starts flying Wes Janson.

How about the new PS9 Imperial aces?

Vader w/ Lone Wolf, title, ATC (31)

Soontir w/ PTL (30)

Whisper w/ ACD, VI (37)

TOTAL: 99 points

Seems fun!

Yup! I was talking to the other Nova squadron casters about that one. I'm building a collection of starter lists as a guide, and that one is in there.

Edit: although I had

Vader + ATC (30)

Fel + PtL + Auto (32)

Whisper + VI + ACD (37)

Hey MJ, go look what squad i posted in the squad section yesterday... Ninjaaa!

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/130833-all-the-new-and-old-goodies-starring-vadersoontirwhisper/

How about the new PS9 Imperial aces?

Vader w/ Lone Wolf, title, ATC (31)

Soontir w/ PTL (30)

Whisper w/ ACD, VI (37)

TOTAL: 99 points

Seems fun!

Yup! I was talking to the other Nova squadron casters about that one. I'm building a collection of starter lists as a guide, and that one is in there.

Edit: although I had

Vader + ATC (30)

Fel + PtL + Auto (32)

Whisper + VI + ACD (37)

Hey MJ, go look what squad i posted in the squad section yesterday... Ninjaaa!

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/130833-all-the-new-and-old-goodies-starring-vadersoontirwhisper/

Yeah, I played a couple games yesterday with the list I cited above. I prefer 99 points to take initiative for Whisper, despite Fel losing arc dodging vs PS9.

How about the new PS9 Imperial aces?

Vader w/ Lone Wolf, title, ATC (31)

Soontir w/ PTL (30)

Whisper w/ ACD, VI (37)

TOTAL: 99 points

Seems fun!

Yup! I was talking to the other Nova squadron casters about that one. I'm building a collection of starter lists as a guide, and that one is in there.

Edit: although I had

Vader + ATC (30)

Fel + PtL + Auto (32)

Whisper + VI + ACD (37)

Hey MJ, go look what squad i posted in the squad section yesterday... Ninjaaa!

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/130833-all-the-new-and-old-goodies-starring-vadersoontirwhisper/

Yeah, I played a couple games yesterday with the list I cited above. I prefer 99 points to take initiative for Whisper, despite Fel losing arc dodging vs PS9.

Also moving last against PS 9 is not that bad on Whisper if they play no PS9 Turrets. You can arc-dodge more easily with Whisper that way and if you can avoid arcs then 2 green dice more won't matter!

I would probably have taken VI on Vader instead of Determination but since my list is called Order 999... I didn't want to make 9911 out of it XD

If running a swarm against Fat Han I think taking AC on Vader might not be a bad idea. Vader would shoot early and strip the evades from han the first shot and hopefully leave Han wide open for the other 4+ ships to beat Han up then Vader could Turtle up. Outmaneuver might work well with AC also making the two hits more likely to land. Vader+AC+Outmaneuver with 4 black ties+outmaneuver would cost 100 points and might be pretty effective vs Fat Hans and chewies.

If running a swarm against Fat Han I think taking AC on Vader might not be a bad idea. Vader would shoot early and strip the evades from han the first shot and hopefully leave Han wide open for the other 4+ ships to beat Han up then Vader could Turtle up. Outmaneuver might work well with AC also making the two hits more likely to land. Vader+AC+Outmaneuver with 4 black ties+outmaneuver would cost 100 points and might be pretty effective vs Fat Hans and chewies.

Vader's practically got a guaranteed 3 hits with ATC thanks to double-action, though. Ran him with 2x Sigma and it does pretty much murder Fat Han.

Come to think of it, isn't AC + Ruthelessness (plus I'd probably go with EU) a great combo even without Cluster Missiles? It's gonna be a guaranteed three hits per turn quite often, especially against swarms.

How are you figuring three guaranteed hits? It will be two hit results every shot and if they aren't both canceled will cause damage to a ship within 1 of your target.