Hi all,
This is supposed to be a Daniel Craig style James Bond
http://www.mediafire.com/view/pb6cjsiil542hkl/SpyAgent.pdf
let me know what you think
I was debating between having cool (a second time) and charm (a first time) in the list of bonus career skills.
Edited by EliasWindriderI think you may be trying to squeeze a little too much goodness into one talent tree. James Bond didn't get to be James Bond by having only one specialization - he has a lot of them.
Is this really as good as the sharp shooter? I didn't think so. Granted the sharp shooter is the most broken spec there is but it was the standard of comparison I was trying not to be better than. I actually started with the recruit tree and modified it.
What is the least amount of change needed to make it not too good? What if I made the left 2 columns snake (not a straight shot down) would taking out dynamic fire and adding a second short cut bring it back to not too good, something like this?
http://www.mediafire.com/view/qrjmuqctv46uj36/SpyAgent2.pdf
what if I moved the lower short cut to the top line grit, and put a well rounded (make 2 skills career skills) where the lower short cut was?
http://www.mediafire.com/view/jkvw9zef576eyn4/SpyAgent3.pdf
Here's another version that gets rid of a rapid reaction and adds a bypass security
http://www.mediafire.com/view/7bnx1f8lmqp25ce/SpyAgent4.pdf
Edited by EliasWindriderI like where you're coming from, because none of the current Spy trees really feel right to me either. IMO, Smuggler - Thief is a good place for inspiration for the Agent tree.
I would consider splitting the theme of the career into the two sides of the tree.
The Left two columns could be the social, undercover side of things (Convincing Demeanor, Indistinguishable, Nobody's Fool).
The Right two columns could be the combat side.
I don't think Spare Clip is quite right for Bond-style. He often only gets a few shots with his tiny pistol, and then he has to find other weapons. The improvised weapon talent from Recruit would probably be better suited.
To my reckoning, there's not enough social talents and too many combat talents. Sure, give me a few talents that make me a deft hand at car chases and gun fights, but also give me some talents that say, "Bond, James Bond" and "Shaken, not stirred."
I like Indistinguishable. Very flavorful. In every movie, you're watching those social scenes and thinking like, "he's freaking James Bond," but most of the enemies are totally obvious.
Would James Bond even have Charm? In the books and the early movies at least, he's a cold, reptilian creature. He lies and seduces a lot, which is covered by Deception, which the Spy and Infiltrator have as a career skill.
Not having seen any of Daniel Craig's Bond films, does he ever try to sincerely convince or engage with others (the kind of things covered by Charm).
I do think the idea of a socially-focused Spy is a good one though.
I like where you're coming from, because none of the current Spy trees really feel right to me either. IMO, Smuggler - Thief is a good place for inspiration for the Agent tree.
I would consider splitting the theme of the career into the two sides of the tree.
The Left two columns could be the social, undercover side of things (Convincing Demeanor, Indistinguishable, Nobody's Fool).
The Right two columns could be the combat side.
I don't think Spare Clip is quite right for Bond-style. He often only gets a few shots with his tiny pistol, and then he has to find other weapons. The improvised weapon talent from Recruit would probably be better suited.
To my reckoning, there's not enough social talents and too many combat talents. Sure, give me a few talents that make me a deft hand at car chases and gun fights, but also give me some talents that say, "Bond, James Bond" and "Shaken, not stirred."
I like Indistinguishable. Very flavorful. In every movie, you're watching those social scenes and thinking like, "he's freaking James Bond," but most of the enemies are totally obvious.
OK I will take this into consideration, probably drop a toughened and spare clip, will look at the recommended replacements and rearrange the talents into a leftree and right side clever solution to soft spot to deadly deadly accuracy will be the bridge across the sides with probably an isolated social talent on the top right side
How's this for a social spy
http://www.mediafire.com/view/j10jaa222qt69wm/SpyAgent5.pdf
I was really debating about whether to give the spec two indistinguishables or 2 Convincing Demeanors
the alternative is to drop the well rounded and have two indistinguishables and 2 Convincing Demeanors but I wanted to give James Bond a way to pick up charm and maybe pilot(planetary) or mechanics
can you guys vote on well rounded vs. 2nd copy of Indistinguishable vs. 2nd copy of Convincing Demeanor (pick two to keep/one to drop)
In case you're questioning about the placement of clever solution on the 20 xp row, Engineer:Scientist places Stroke of Genius on the 20 xp row and for the tree I created, clever solution is harder to get to than Stroke of Genius is in Engineer:Scientist
Would James Bond even have Charm? In the books and the early movies at least, he's a cold, reptilian creature. He lies and seduces a lot, which is covered by Deception, which the Spy and Infiltrator have as a career skill.
Not having seen any of Daniel Craig's Bond films, does he ever try to sincerely convince or engage with others (the kind of things covered by Charm).
I do think the idea of a socially-focused Spy is a good one though.
Sure, Bond has charm. He uses it like a cold, calculating manipulator, but he's quite capable of being charming when he wants to be. And he's undeniably very charismatic, regardless.
But back to the topic at hand, I agree with awayputurwpn. An agent like Bond would need Street Smarts, Plausible Deniability and possibly Kill with Kindness. And I agree with adding Bypass Security.
>Sure, Bond has charm. He uses it like a cold, calculating manipulator, but he's quite capable of being charming when he wants to be.
That's Deception. The rules suggest you use Charm when you're trying to be diplomatic and genuine and sincere.
>And he's undeniably very charismatic, regardless.
That's Presence, not the Charm skill.
I feel an agent needs to be manipulative, not a diplomat.
Edited by MaeloraHave you considered the "Utility Belt" talent? At first it seems a little out of place, but Bond always has some gadget that can help him get out of tight situations. Without a "Q" in the party, the Utility Belt talent and some ingenuity is a close representation.
So what are people's feelings on convincing demeanor (remove setback from deception and skulduggery) vs. Plausible deniability (remove setback from deception and coercion) maybe one of each and 2 indistinguishables and drop the well rounded?
I disagree that streetsmarts is essential for a first spy spec (and it's impossible to fit all of James Bond in a single spec, so think of this as early career James Bond) having connections to the criminal underworld is not something an early career spy will have, and having those connections works against being indistinguishable.
Kill with kindness I also disagree with
Okay all, here's the latest version
http://www.mediafire.com/view/2vvwija28r0w8xz/SpyAgent6.pdf
I dropped well rounded in favor of a second indistinguishable, I moved a few talents around and changed some connecting lines. For example I made it 10 xp more expensive to get to dedication, I figured that a straight shot down the right column netting both deadly accuracy and dedication was a little too good. There's also connectivity across the third row now.
I had a little choose your own adventure story in determining where to place talents and connecting lines
starting on the left hand side
indistinguishable: you walk in without anybody noticing you
bypass security: you pick a lock while nobody is watching
convincing demeanor: if someone did notice you, you make up a convincing excuse and then disappear into the crowd with the next indistinguishable, or
you take short cut: in case they chase you and then you disappear into a crowd or you have to fight (rapid reaction), or once you get into the secure area you disappear into the crowd with the indistinguishable
convincing demeanor: if somebody stops you tell a convincing lie, or you swiped somebody's security clearance to gain access to a secured room
natural rogue helps you steal that security clearance without getting caught
mental fortress: helps you resist interrogation in case you did get caught as does enduring and dedication
clever solution: helps you get out of the cuffs and then you hit the guard in a soft spot with deadly accuracy
then you quick draw a weapon and rapidly react to the next set of guards coming in the room or side step their blaster fire
About the bonus career skills, should the cool be replaced with charm or coercion or maybe pilot (planetary), or something else? I'm open to suggestions, I would like more feedback but I think it's pretty close to the final state
Edited by EliasWindriderSo what are people's feelings on convincing demeanor (remove setback from deception and skulduggery) vs. Plausible deniability (remove setback from deception and coercion) maybe one of each and 2 indistinguishables and drop the well rounded?
I disagree that streetsmarts is essential for a first spy spec (and it's impossible to fit all of James Bond in a single spec, so think of this as early career James Bond) having connections to the criminal underworld is not something an early career spy will have, and having those connections works against being indistinguishable.
Kill with kindness I also disagree with
Convincing Demeanor is far more in line with being undercover, and going where you shouldn't be. Coercion doesn't really help with that job.
I might replace Agent Cool with Knowledge Underworld or Education. A starting agent might not have contacts, but he should know who and what he's dealing with. The broad Education allows him to fit into more roles as cover identities (good lies have a hint of truth) and can give that taste of high society. Underworld lets him know the movers and shakers (by reputation at least). If this is an Agent only working against the Empire, then Warfare could be enough, but Education might still be a good idea.
So what are people's feelings on convincing demeanor (remove setback from deception and skulduggery) vs. Plausible deniability (remove setback from deception and coercion) maybe one of each and 2 indistinguishables and drop the well rounded?
I disagree that streetsmarts is essential for a first spy spec (and it's impossible to fit all of James Bond in a single spec, so think of this as early career James Bond) having connections to the criminal underworld is not something an early career spy will have, and having those connections works against being indistinguishable.
Kill with kindness I also disagree with
Convincing Demeanor is far more in line with being undercover, and going where you shouldn't be. Coercion doesn't really help with that job.
I might replace Agent Cool with Knowledge Underworld or Education. A starting agent might not have contacts, but he should know who and what he's dealing with. The broad Education allows him to fit into more roles as cover identities (good lies have a hint of truth) and can give that taste of high society. Underworld lets him know the movers and shakers (by reputation at least). If this is an Agent only working against the Empire, then Warfare could be enough, but Education might still be a good idea.
I think it's much better than when it started.
A few more tweaks:
Like others have said, Bond is not *just* an Agent. He's probably also a Commando or some other combat heavy spec. So I would focus the combat side on survival through avoidance instead of endurance.
The key things that I feel an Agent needs is the skills and talents to blend in, sneak in, take the MacGuffin (which may be inter-personal information, a solid object, or encoded files), and escape with the MacGuffin.
Because of this, I am about to start playing a Bothan Spy who is actually a Smuggler - Thief, because I feel it has more of the things I need to pull off those kinds of jobs than any of the Spy specs.
I think it's much better than when it started.
A few more tweaks:
- Get Toughened off the first row.
- Possibly give 1 rank of Defensive Stance talent somewhere on the combat side.
- Replace 2nd Indistinguishable with Hidden Storage.
- I would still get rid of Quick Draw and replace it with the Improvised weapon talent from Recruit.
- I'm not sure Enduring is really appropriate, I might give the +1 Ranged defense talent instead. But if it's going to stay, I'd break the connection between Mental Fortress and Enduring, so the only way to get it is through Dedication.
I
Like others have said, Bond is not *just* an Agent. He's probably also a Commando or some other combat heavy spec. So I would focus the combat side on survival through avoidance instead of endurance.
The key things that I feel an Agent needs is the skills and talents to blend in, sneak in, take the MacGuffin (which may be inter-personal information, a solid object, or encoded files), and escape with the MacGuffin.
Also I was hoping for the Agent spec to also being a good starting point for Jason Bourne (an Agent could grow into bond or Bourne by taking secondary specs as appropriate). I know covering Bond and Bourne together might seem difficult but they have a fair amount of "skills" in common even if they put a different emphasis on them. And my idea of bond is the Daniel Craig bond, who is a sort of mix of Sean Connery and Pierce Brosnan.
Edited by EliasWindriderHi All,
Here's version 7 (maybe I should have called it version 007
)
http://www.mediafire.com/view/d6b1epgxeahmj88/SpyAgent7.pdf
Please let me know what you think (a "thumbs up" is just as helpful as a "thumbs down and why").
I think my next custom spec attempt will be a "Spec Ops" soldier (a little fire arms, martial arts, toughness, stealth [4 columns]) so that the pairing of Spy:Agent and Spec Ops will make a decent "James Bond."
I asked Sam Stewart for feedback in a PM and he actually replied (which is pretty cool),
Here's part of what he said
If you want to keep the "social" Bond and the "combat" Bond (Pierce Brosman and Daniel Craig?) in one tree (though I think it might make a lot of sense to split them up; this tree's pretty tight as it is), you could put a sub-tree in one of the corners with Kill with Kindness and Intimidating, maybe two of each. Just enough to represent an Agent's ability to charm, but not taking away from the cold-hearted killer (I, as it may be apparent, really like the Daniel Craig version!).
He also said (paraphrasing) he didn't think there should be a single path across the bottom (which I take to mean reconnect enduring and mental fortress), and that their should be a point blank somewhere near the top of the combat side of the tree, so I'll take another stab at it and after a couple more rounds of feedback I'll put the two bond's head to head in a poll for you guys to pick the preferred "Agent" spec.
Hi all instead of having 2 versions to choose between, here are 4
The "original" meaning pre Sam Stewart recommendation version (7)
http://www.mediafire.com/view/d6b1epgxeahmj88/SpyAgent7.pdf
this version (8) is maybe 1/3 from version 7 on the way to what Sam Stewart suggested.
http://www.mediafire.com/view/1j0dhr1co689n31/SpyAgent8.pdf
This version (9) is 2/3 from the pre-Sam-Recomendation to the Sam Stewart Recommendation
http://www.mediafire.com/view/8atz58jvo6thb0l/SpyAgent9.pdf
Here is what I think Sam Stewart recommended (version 10)
http://www.mediafire.com/view/7rm3lrbzbcn31zu/SpyAgent10.pdf
Please rank the numbers 7, 8, 9, 10 to indicate your order of preference of the respective versions of Spy Agent
And for your consideration, my take on the "other half" of Bond (the special forces part, i.e. Spec Ops) is
http://www.mediafire.com/view/v8h24okwkrz8vrg/SoldierSpecOps3.pdf
Edited by EliasWindrider