I think the Tie Advance fix was a very well designed one.

And I think thats the way to go for overcosted ships or ships which not perform or being used like intended by design.

So, the combination of granting a discount on a specific 'upgrade class' via title and providing a ship-specific upgrade card in this upgrade class which is very attractive to use but not neccessarily an auto-include might be the way to go for all underperforming ships.

So a similar fix could be applied on the E-Wing: A discount of 2 points for System Upgrades would make the generic pilots more attractive, since thats basically a FCS for free.

Right now, the X-Wing is considered as a bit too squishy, could use a bit more manoeuvrability, is a bit overcosted in general. There is already a palette of astromechs that would fit in to ease the players needs, but of course they come with a price. So it might be the best solution to grant a 2 point discount on astromechs while creating even more viarity of effects. Somebody in this forum already had the idea to grant a 1 point discount on each Astromech, Torpedo and Modification upgrade card, which might be a good solution for the X-Wing.

So lets just take this approach and fix or fine-tune the rest of the ships in X-Wing and just do a little brainstorming:

Tie Fighter : no fix required

Tie Advanced : no fix required

Tie Bomber: Discount of 4 points on one piece of ordnance or 1 point on every upgrade; "Tie Shuttle" special version title

Tie Defender : Discount of 2 points on ion weapons.

Tie Interceptor: Like I already wrote in different posts in the past, I had granted a discount of 2 points for the second modification via the title.

Shuttle : A 1 point discount on crew and modifications would be cool.

Firespray: no fix required

Tie Phantom: no fix required

Decimator: no fix required

X-Wing : like above: 2 points on astromechs or 1 point on astro, torp and mod each

Y-Wing: too much new stuff on the way to get a feeling for the Y-Wings further needs

A-Wing: no fix required (i'm sure a lot players don't think so)

B-Wing: no fix required

HWK: Discount of 3 points on crew.

YT1300: no fix required

YT2400: no fix required

Z95: no fix required

The problem is, if you fix the x-wing, pretty soon people will be calling for a b-wing fix, then an x-wing fix, then a b-wing fix...

You get my drift?

The peril of taking this approach with everything is sooner or later when you buy a ship blister you need not only that blister but also two ace packs and a huge ship to actually use it.

Nice ideas, but I don't think the shuttle and HWK need a fix, both are ships you have to learn to use in order to take advantage of some really good effects. Plus the HWK will get some more love in the scum faction, and we just got a ton of new crew options for the shuttle with the decimator.

Really the interceptor doesn't either, we already got imperial aces and auto thrusters will be coming soon.

Straight discounts for everything is boring... let's be more creative! Here are my two suggestions:

Tie Bomber title: Gives deadeye.

That way low pilot skill bombers can get their ordnance off when they move first and can't get a lock. Also encouragous the taking of ordnance without turning them into a cheap swarmer.

Tie Defender only cannon: Adds the ion effect to your primary weapon.

Buffs the Defender, makes it more fluffy, and does it in a way that prevents HLC from becoming cheaper or the default choice.

I think the Tie Advance fix was a very well designed one.

And I think thats the way to go for overcosted ships or ships which not perform or being used like intended by design.

So, the combination of granting a discount on a specific 'upgrade class' via title and providing a ship-specific upgrade card in this upgrade class which is very attractive to use but not neccessarily an auto-include might be the way to go for all underperforming ships.

So a similar fix could be applied on the E-Wing: A discount of 2 points for System Upgrades would make the generic pilots more attractive, since thats basically a FCS for free.

Right now, the X-Wing is considered as a bit too squishy, could use a bit more manoeuvrability, is a bit overcosted in general. There is already a palette of astromechs that would fit in to ease the players needs, but of course they come with a price. So it might be the best solution to grant a 2 point discount on astromechs while creating even more viarity of effects. Somebody in this forum already had the idea to grant a 1 point discount on each Astromech, Torpedo and Modification upgrade card, which might be a good solution for the X-Wing.

So lets just take this approach and fix or fine-tune the rest of the ships in X-Wing and just do a little brainstorming:

Tie Fighter : no fix required

Tie Advanced : no fix required

Tie Bomber: Discount of 4 points on one piece of ordnance or 1 point on every upgrade; "Tie Shuttle" special version title

Tie Defender : Discount of 2 points on ion weapons.

Tie Interceptor: Like I already wrote in different posts in the past, I had granted a discount of 2 points for the second modification via the title.

Shuttle : A 1 point discount on crew and modifications would be cool.

Firespray: no fix required

Tie Phantom: no fix required

Decimator: no fix required

X-Wing : like above: 2 points on astromechs or 1 point on astro, torp and mod each

Y-Wing: too much new stuff on the way to get a feeling for the Y-Wings further needs

A-Wing: no fix required (i'm sure a lot players don't think so)

B-Wing: no fix required

HWK: Discount of 3 points on crew.

YT1300: no fix required

YT2400: no fix required

Z95: no fix required

ties: no fix req. winged gundark could really use a tweak though

adv: we'll see how well that fix works. I really like how it makes it a useful choice at 22 points or 21 points. a few points short 2 ties. also tankier.

tie bomber: okay, that could work. fix is needed somehow.

defender: interesting, but kinda not competitive. theyre just overcosted mostly. rexler needs a better way of getting extra actions. really the ship would be great if it had 2 slight greens.

ints: only need help now in the generics, not the named pilots. your fix is off.

shuttle: probably doesnt need a fix.

firespray imp: the named pilots all suck. 1 point reduction to all

phantom: generics overcosted by 1 point, named fine

decimator: pretty good so far

hwk needs no fix.

HEY GUYS LOOK AT HOW MANY IMP SHIPS COULD YOU A LITTLE HELP.

I think just giving barrel roll to x-wings would help alot, a-wings don't get it because they are unstable lore wise but the x-wing should be able to do it.

A free title granting the action in the next rebel aces would be easy to do.

Defenders instead of reducing the cost you have a modification that makes the banks green.

The bombers issue is really not the ship itself but the the torpedoes it's meant to carry.

Don't think Corran needs any help at all. A's need lots of help still.

Don't think Corran needs any help at all.

Of course not. A lot of ppl thought Vader wouldn't either. Rebels mainly, I suppose.

im going to say this, and its going to make me sound like an jerk, the biggest jerk, but I'm going to say it anyway and please take it with the honest intention it is intended.

I think so many people are looking at buffing/changing/modifying/fixing so many ships, and the reality is that while the advanced probably needs a fix, it should probably stop there or at the y wing, or somewhere close to that line in the sand.

the reality is, that i think many people are calling for upgrades, or changes, or fixes to a particular ship because they feel they are underpowered, or that they need help, but i also cant help but wonder what or how does that person fly the ship and are they taking advantage of what it has to offer. I think when we take a look at the card, its easy to feel underwhelmed with certain ships, but when you get them on the table, they are stronger than you think, or they fly really well.

In miniature games, its very often to call for fixes or de-buffs to specific units, wh40k is a constant stream of these requests, warmachine is dealing with Bradigus Tier 4 at the moment, and x-wing is dealing with older ships getting a face. The thing is, in most cases, the majority of people calling to fix the game typically dont play the units involved, but they dont play them when they are well enough and practiced to make an informed decision.

I know that makes me sound like an ass, i get it. Its not my intention, but i don't think X wings need a fix. i dont think the shuttle needs a fix, or the fire-spray needs a fix, sure those options may be one or two points over, but theres probably some tech out there, or some awesome upgrade that will make them really good thats undercoated by a point or two and puts them back on the scene.

I want a modification that can be used on all ships:

Cost: 0

Reduce Cost to 12 points

I think that Starkiller has a point there, and that ships should systematically be checked if they perform well enough. If not so, FFG should apply a fix via titles, modifications or discounts like we have seen it for the Advanced. This should imho happen via card-only upgrades because i think there is not always an opportunity to sell a new fighter together with an aces pack or a large ship.

I also think that a large part of the Forum community will know what ships need a patch or two. For example: i am very seldom of the same opinion as Starkiller, but i think that his list of ships to fix, as well as the point costs for the buff are approximatively right. This is no coincidence. If you play X-Wing and vary your builds a bit, you will get a feeling for which ships are fine and which ones not.

I know there are naysayers that will always say that everything is good in the finest of worlds, but i just know that trying to balance the game better is necessary. And as FFG has shown already, they do listen to their community, and they are also willing to balance ships as they have already shown with the A-Wing and Advanced.

I don't agree with certain of the particular fixes of course, but the fact that we demand them with FFG and discuss them to give them some ideas what might be required is of great importance. I trust FFG to come up with a number of good ideas, they usually do an excellent job on such things!

What sc077y said. I mean I hear people calling for fixes on Bombers, Y-wings, and A-Wings, but I see these ships flow all the time. I loved the A-wing even before it got its fix, now I almost feel dirty flying it, it is soooooo cheap.

Let's talk about the Bomber. Lots of people ave been calling for its fix, but it is possibly the best ship for its costs in the game. it can be equiped with three different type of upgrades right off the bat. That does not include EPT that its two named pilots get or the fact that it can take multiple missiles. Sure it is an ordinance carrier, but that is what it is supposed to be. It isn't a whin button, it can have a tricky dial, and it can be tricky to use ordnance effectily. But it isn't underpowered it is just tricky to use.

I didn't quite count but theRealStalker listed fixes for at least half of the ships in the game. Really half of them! I don't think there is a single ship that I couldn't put in a competative tournament list. I freely admit that I might not be able to fly them effectivly enough to win a tournament, but isn't that the point of this game. Fly your ships to win.

I will also admit that at the very highest levels of play the ships aren't perfectly balanced, but I don't think fixing one ship or another will do that. I don't think that a perfect 100% balanced game is even possible for a game with the differentiation that you see in this game.

I don't think a chardaan fit point deduction is the best way to "fix" every ship. Example 1 is the tie advanced. While it gives a discount to systems, the fix was also to fix the actual problem not just value the bad ship at less.

I don't think a chardaan fit point deduction is the best way to "fix" every ship. Example 1 is the tie advanced. While it gives a discount to systems, the fix was also to fix the actual problem not just value the bad ship at less.

But that's exactly why Starkiller said: Fix it like the Advanced! Because that one didn't get a flat reduction but something more elaborate which is widely agreed to be a better fix!

I believe the Xwing is still a competitive fighter, but if it does require a patch, I'd like to see a new astromech, not a discount on them.

Basically just the generic X-wings need a fix. I see the named ones being used all the time still. Even Luke and Wedge (all the way back from wave 1). I think some more new astro-mechs would be a good solution since they would also boost the Y-wing and the E-wing. A generic PS 6 rogue squadron pilot would be pretty awesome as well. Nothing is currently as bad as the Advanced was pre-raider announcement.

Its funny how it seems like there are more Imperial ships that need fixing but in my local meta I tend to see WAAAYY more Imperial players than Rebel players.

I agree with sc077y. It's a game; let's just learn to fly with what's on the table, and enjoy the game, not constantly whine that this ship or that fighter doesn't play well and needs a fix.

I think another thing to keep in mind is that so far FFG has been very wary of rocking the boat too much in the meta when introducing 'fixes'. This is a good thing since it keeps the game relatively stable.

I think the biggest shake up by far has been the Phantom, to push for lower ship count/higher PS lists.

I prefer 'fixes' that add more choices instead of ham-fistedly adjusting costs using cards (which leads to being forced to buy expansions to make ships viable). It would also be ridiculous if in a few years you will be flying a list where every ship has like 2 or 3 upgrades just for fixes.

I like the TIE advanced fix even though it was more points tweaking. Honestly, the situation was dire enough to warrant it.

A good example of a 'boost' to the shuttle is the new decimator crew cards. Adds more options to an existing ship which open up new ideas for how to use it without just tweaking costs.

I want a modification that can be used on all ships:

Cost: 0

Reduce Cost to 12 points

Here comes the Phantom swarm!

I want a modification that can be used on all ships:

Cost: 0

Reduce Cost to 12 points

Here comes the Phantom swarm!

Screw that, I want a Decimator swarm! It'll be 128 hit points and 24 attack dice. Good luck beating that!

Plus, it'll fix the X-Wing by leveling out the point cost to every ship, so people will stop complaining that <insert their favorite ship> costs too much.

I want a modification that can be used on all ships:

Cost: 0

Reduce Cost to 12 points

Here comes the Phantom swarm!

Screw that, I want a Decimator swarm! It'll be 128 hit points and 24 attack dice. Good luck beating that!

Plus, it'll fix the X-Wing by leveling out the point cost to every ship, so people will stop complaining that <insert their favorite ship> costs too much.

<sarcasm> While we are at it, we can give all ships the same abilities, so no one can claim that any ship is better than another. </sarcasm>

And we can make ordinance cost 0 points and make it so you can spend the target lock on the attack roll and you don't have to discard the ordinance card after firing

And we can make ordinance cost 0 points and make it so you can spend the target lock on the attack roll and you don't have to discard the ordinance card after firing

Let's talk about the Bomber. Lots of people ave been calling for its fix, but it is possibly the best ship for its costs in the game. it can be equiped with three different type of upgrades right off the bat. That does not include EPT that its two named pilots get or the fact that it can take multiple missiles. Sure it is an ordinance carrier, but that is what it is supposed to be. It isn't a whin button, it can have a tricky dial, and it can be tricky to use ordnance effectily. But it isn't underpowered it is just tricky to use.

Because of their low pilot skill they generally move first and against a skilled opponent odds are they will not get inside target lock range, rendering them unable to fire their ordnance. On the next turn a wise opponent will shot past them, again rendering them unable to fire ordance.

They really need something to emphasize their roll as bombers. That's why I suggested a Deadeye type upgrade so they can reliable get all that ordnance off.