I have been playing arround with the Decimators lately, and they have a ton of good options for their EPT. I'm not saying that Determination is better than Lone Wolf, Preditor, Opportunist, or any number of other EPT, but I don't think we have considered the value of Determination on a Decimator.

For me the Decimator's weakness is obvious. Crits. It doesn't have a lot of shields (compared to its hull) and it has a ton of hull that means two things. #1 a lot of the crits scored against it will hit the hull (get past the shields) and #2 it will be alive a lot longer after it has been critted against so those crits effects will play a larger part of the game. #2 was the real surprise for me the first time I played with Decimators. 14 hull meant that you could put a pretty bad crit against a Decimator and it would still be alive for several more turns still crippled by that crit. As a mostly imperial player I thought I was pretty familiar with crits. But against my TIEs and TIE Interceptors the only crits that I really hated was the ones that could do another damage. "Dirrect Hit" is the bane of TIE players, but I found in the Decimator I actually prefered a dirrect hit to something that denied me my pilots abilites or acitons on my action bar. Extra hits was the one thing I did have.

With all that said Deterimation litterally lets you discard about 1/4 the crit cards you take. Let's make this clear you don't flip them over, you discard them all together. That alone can be worth the 1 point of the cost. On top of that the "Pilot" crits are all for a Decimator (at least one that can take EPT) Some crits aren't bad. No one minds discarding a secondary weapon if they don't have one etc. But I can't think of a single "pilot" crit that you want to play the rest of the game with.

Yes I know there is another way for a Decimator to get rid of crits, but it costs crew slots. For me the crew slots are vital, actually more vital than the EPT which is why I have been experimenting with it.

One last thing Determination only costs 1 point. Almost free (as long as you don't care about initiative)

But I can't think of a single "pilot" crit that you want to play the rest of the game with.

However, your point still stands.

I love determination on my Decimator builds. I like it on Oinkin' since a wounded pilot crit really ruins his fun.

The best part about determination is that even if it just cancels 1 crit the whole game it is worth it. And if it does nothing its only one point lost

I had a game where Determination on Chrianeau ate up four pilot crits.

It was a thing of beauty.

I've run Determination Multiple times on several different pilots, and in every game it's discarded at least one damage. Of the pilots I think I like this on Kenkirk the most. It adds to and protects his defensive ability. There's a lot of good EPTs for them to run. One of the things I love about the decimator is how configurable it is. Having 3 crew slots and an EPT, lets you radically alter how to build it out. For me, if I want a really Tanky build, I would run something like this

Kenkirk + Determination + Ysanne Isard + Rebel Captive + Gunner + EU (61)

Gunner lets you ramp up your offense while the other upgrades ramp up your defense. Seems like a good balance. With Determination you will have that game where it doesn't help, but I think it's going to earn it's 1 point most of the time.

You could try a real tanky build with the classic Kenkirk + Isard with Determination Moff Jerjerrod and maybe another crew like Rebel Captive (which has a nice theme of Jerrod jettisoning the rebel scum to save the ship.)

List I'm going to be trying out is:

Kenkirk

Moff jerjerrod

Rebel captive

Ysanne isard

Determination.

Good in theory will see how it goes.

Originally wanted lone wolf on him but the chance to discard a damage is good.

After 12 games with Oicunn w/ Determination I don't think I can live without it..... literally. I average at least 2 crits discarded per game with as many as 4 in one game.

Decimators take surprisingly few crits, as their hull tends to get eaten by the much more common hits (that didn't get canceled by evade dice).

I think that Determination belongs best on ships with lots of hull and 2 agility: The Firespray and the Outrider. Particularly with Leebo.

In a tournament I discarded 4 crits one round

List I'm going to be trying out is:

Kenkirk

Moff jerjerrod

Rebel captive

Ysanne isard

Determination.

Good in theory will see how it goes.

Originally wanted lone wolf on him but the chance to discard a damage is good.

I did that except I put on recon specialist instrad of rebel captive

Granted determination only really needs to discard one crit to pull it's weight, which is fairly likely, but there is a lot of anecdotal evidence in this thread. It could see it's usefulness reduced against something like an HLC, and since outriders are popular that's a thing. I think it still provides a good default option. Other defaults dont really fit. Lone wolf is terrible on decimator, don't even really like it on kenkirk that much, predator is ok, but less so on Chir. PTL is terrible without also having EU and even then is meh.

I think the biggest competition for determination is VI , on Chir anyway. Having him PS 10 is a nightmare for phantoms, and gives you donut hole access even against the occasional VI dash. Though usually dash is 7. Rebel captive is great for the phantoms of course, but not always enough if the phantom just kills w/e else you're playing first.

Determination is certainly better on this ship than any other, not just because of the 12 hull, but a lot of the other go to options just dont do as much on here as on other ships.

Determination seems like the obvious choice for Kenkirk.

I prefer the Moff though, on the Rear Admiral.

He needs his EPT for something kill'y like Ruthlessness or Predator, imho.

I do see the value and synergy of Determination on Kenkirk, with Ysanne.

Determination is a **** good upgrade to put on a Decimator... really great for tanky builds

Wait, i think i missed an interraction.

Determine lets you discard the critical hit effect? like, really, like, my opponent rolls 2 hits and a crit. i use yssanne and evade one of the hits with the free evade action. the next hit reduces my hull by one and i get a damage card, and the next hit is a crit, that is a pilot ability.

now, to make sure im reading determination right, i would discard, as in i didnt take that damage? let alone suffer the crit effect. sorry, i havent played much with determination, as it always seemed really cornercase, but is that how it actually works?

if so, count me in!

Wait, i think i missed an interraction.

Determine lets you discard the critical hit effect? like, really, like, my opponent rolls 2 hits and a crit. i use yssanne and evade one of the hits with the free evade action. the next hit reduces my hull by one and i get a damage card, and the next hit is a crit, that is a pilot ability.

now, to make sure im reading determination right, i would discard, as in i didnt take that damage? let alone suffer the crit effect. sorry, i havent played much with determination, as it always seemed really cornercase, but is that how it actually works?

if so, count me in!

Yep!

Try it with Leebo for some real fun. You get 2 draws to get a Pilot, and even if you don't, you get the lesser of the two, so you're still pretty well off.

I definitely like this idea, gotta include some offense on the decimator from experience unless you're playing Chirnaeu. Gunner becomes an auto if you run determination, which isn't a bad combo anyway.

I played a game last night against a decimator with determination and wouldn't you know every freaking crit I dealt was able to be discarded because of it. The decimator wrecked me cuz I couldn't kill the freaking thing

I played a game last night against a decimator with determination and wouldn't you know every freaking crit I dealt was able to be discarded because of it. The decimator wrecked me cuz I couldn't kill the freaking thing

I had one last night where during two consecutive rounds I threw 9 red dice at a decimator, all at range 1 or 2 so no evade dice, and only did 3 damage. And 5 of those attack dice were from a proton rocket that only did 2 damage (shakes head).

Granted determination only really needs to discard one crit to pull it's weight, which is fairly likely, but there is a lot of anecdotal evidence in this thread. It could see it's usefulness reduced against something like an HLC, and since outriders are popular that's a thing. I think it still provides a good default option. Other defaults dont really fit. Lone wolf is terrible on decimator, don't even really like it on kenkirk that much, predator is ok, but less so on Chir. PTL is terrible without also having EU and even then is meh.

I think the biggest competition for determination is VI , on Chir anyway. Having him PS 10 is a nightmare for phantoms, and gives you donut hole access even against the occasional VI dash. Though usually dash is 7. Rebel captive is great for the phantoms of course, but not always enough if the phantom just kills w/e else you're playing first.

Determination is certainly better on this ship than any other, not just because of the 12 hull, but a lot of the other go to options just dont do as much on here as on other ships.

How is Predator less than okay on Chiraneau? He gets a reroll and soft focus that are action independent leaving him free to use his action to boost or to bump enemies to deny them shots.

PTL with EU and Ysane seems a lot better than 'meh'.

As strange as it sounds, I think the best way to play a decimator is as an arc-dodger. RAC+Predator+Mara Jade+Rebel Captive+Ysanne Isarde+Engine Upgrade. The best place to be is at range 1 behind your opponent. With engine, the decimator is surprisingly agile. Zoom into range 1, get them stressed and keep them that way. You keep their ships stressed so they can't turn effectively. The only ships with a green turn are interceptors and a-wings. Once they're stressed, they can't K-turn and if they do a white turn, they don't get an action.

last night i ran the admirl ptl off ysand to boost build, injured pilot both games, second game it was the very first damage card i took....

yeah determination or the moff is going in to protect against that crap next game

Just a quick question. Determination cannot discard damage cards that have been flipped face up from say R2-D2(crew) or Rexlar can it?

I don't think so because those cards a flipped face up not dealt.

We may have misused Determination, but at the last tournament I was at someone Sabateur'd a Decimator with determination, it was a pilot crit, and was discarded. The sabateur was a double agent apparently, and healed the enemy!

Should that not have happened??

Edit: answered my own question. Determination should not have discarded a flipped up crit. It only discards crits being dealt, not flipped.