In my last game a Wookie PC lost an arm due to a critic. I told the player to look into the rule book since there is the possibility to replace limbs and organs by means of cybernetic implants.

Immediately he saw that cybernetics give good boosts to characteristics and he became very enthusiastic. Of course jokes here and there started, "cut me a leg", or "cut me the other arm", "I burn my eyes". Luckily for me, there is no problem with my players in that regards. They are by no means munchkins or anything similar, so some jokes was all we had.

Yet, now that I know about this, it itches me. Star Wars, as we see in the movies, is not a setting where cyborgs or cybernetics are popular, it is not a cyberpunk setting. I have the impression that in SW cybernetics are things developed for medical purposes (Darth Vader, Luke, General Grievous) and not for mental/body enhancement like in a cyberpunk setting.

So I was thinking going in one of the two ways:

1) Keep the bonus but add a "cybernetic stigma malus" to social interactions etc which increase the more cybernetics you posses. There are such things in cyberpunk rpgs, where the more cyber-implants you have the less human you become.

2) Totally remove the bonuses granted by cybernetics.

What do you think?

but I am more interested in reading others opinion on the matter. How do you see it? because the rules as written encourage maximising the amount of cyber-implants in your body and it does not feel ver Star Warish to me.

I had the same issue with replacements some time ago and asked about it around here. The idea I finally introduced into our games was similar to your 1) - in general people with cybernetics are treated as handicapped or are not trusted, or treated as if they were borderline psychos (if it is obvious that they willingly cut off their limbs). So your idea of harder social interactions is the best.

Cybernetics also require (I think) constant monitoring, so you need a mechanic around, otherwise it might start malfunctioning under strain (threats?).

Man, that's a harsh critic!

I could see someone overtly cyborg-ed up having some setbacks added in Charm checks, of course they might get a boost in coerce/intimidation checks. Given Luke has fake skin on his hand and Vader could care less seems like there is precedent for it.

The rules impose a potentially harsh solution for GMs regarding ion weapons and hits on cybernetic attachments, so some PC trying to min/max should have the dangers of that pointed out to them.

Call it GM fiat if you like but PCs don't do anything without GM consent so if getting all bionic-ed out is a game breaker at a table just tell the PC no.

I'm going with #2 in my games, it doesn't make sense to me anyway why a cybernetic limb adds total body strength, or a brain implant adds intelligence. I could see a case for conditional benefits, but they would be rare. The brain implant might add boost dice for certain kinds of checks, depending on what was loaded into it, but that's about it. Otherwise I think cybernetics in the SW universe are simply meant to be replacements, not enhancements.

The issue hasn't come up in my group, since everyone still has all their natural appendages. But I remember the WEG system had some details on cybernetics and how it was a social stigma (easily explained by the Clone Wars, when robot armies led by a psychotic cyborg set fire to the galaxy) and how it made a character less humane and empathetic (additional Dark side points when committing acts of evil).

Now, FFG has introduced no such rules (so far), so this is pretty much up to the individual GM. My personal take on it is that cybernetics that give stat boosts are "visible", as in obvious robotic limbs grafted onto an organic body. Replacements, like Luke's hand in Empire and Jedi, merely replace a lost limb with no additional benefits and are effectively undetectable to the naked eye. In the former case I've told my players that "cybering up" with various enhancements will result in setback dice when dealing with most people who are freaked out by overt cybernetics. If they want to chop off their own arms and legs for bonuses, Shadowrun is a good game for them.

Wow I've had characters with cybernetics before, some with tons but never even jokingly thought about giving a character them intentionally, unless you count the character who lost a hand in an accident when he was a child.or he one who lost part of his left leg in a battle a few years before the campaign started.

Man, that's a harsh critic!

The rules impose a potentially harsh solution for GMs regarding ion weapons and hits on cybernetic attachments, so some PC trying to min/max should have the dangers of that pointed out to them.

but I am more interested in reading others opinion on the matter. How do you see it? because the rules as written encourage maximising the amount of cyber-implants in your body and it does not feel ver Star Warish to me.

There are cybernetics you can get that function as pure replacements — no bonuses. They’re designed to look and function exactly like they body part they are replacing. If you remember when Luke’s cybernetic hand is being attached at the end of ESB, other than the door being open so that the docbot can test the function, the hand itself looks perfectly normal. Once that door is closed, you would never know that he has a cybernetic hand, unless he were to tell you.

These are pretty cheap — like 1000Cr or so.

The more expensive cybernetics (like 10,000Cr) are the ones that can give you a minor boost. But they also sacrifice something on the visual side — they don’t look exactly like the body part they are replacing. Something always looks a little “off” with them. If it’s an eye, it reflects light in a way that doesn’t look quite right. If it’s a hand or arm, then either the exposed material is metal, or the person is likely to feel that they have to cover it with a large glove — remember Anakin’s cybernetic arm, after Dooku chopped off the original?

In either case, once you’ve got a cybernetic body part, you can get hit with an ion gun and that will completely take out your cybernetics for a while.

So, if they want the boost, then they’re going to have to live with whatever the social consequences would be. And either way, they’re going to have to live with the ion gun effects.

If your players chose the less expensive cybernetics, then I wouldn’t be inclined to throw the ion gun attack at them very often — no one would know to use it. If your players have the more expensive cybernetics, then yeah — the smarter attackers are going to know that they could potentially use the ion gun against them as well as any droids that might be around.

No mention is made of how cybernetics might be modified so that they are invulnerable to the ion gun attack, and I’m not sure that I would allow players to go that route. Likewise, no mention is made of how you would take the more expensive boosting cybernetics and camouflage them to the point where they would look and function exactly like normal body parts, until such time as the boosting function is required. Again, I don’t think I’d let players start down this road.

I ran into this in another game, where someone just wanted the novelty of beating someone up with his artificial limb or punch through walls with it.

For my game I have started rolling up some bad dudes with enhanced cyberware. Costs a lot. But it is obvious they are Cyber enhanced when the players encounter them but they are not more durable.

in general people with cybernetics are treated as handicapped or are not trusted, or treated as if they were borderline psychos (if it is obvious that they willingly cut off their limbs). So your idea of harder social interactions is the best.

Seeing as I'm classified as handicapped, i'm not so sure I like being lumped in with untrustworthy, borderline psychos. I'm not so sure I don't like it either, though!

I'm just not sure how it actually applies. My own experience is that I get a lot of people who try to help me. Sometimes it's welcome so I never get rude about it because when I need help, I'd like it to be available. But a lot of the time, I politely tell the would-be helper that I need to be able to do things on my own but I appreciate their offer, will gladly let them know if I need their help after all, etc.

Somehow, I don't imagine people reacting to someone with a robot part grafted to their body the same way they react to someone tapping and sweeping a cane to keep herself from walking into a wall... Again. Then again, I can't see it so maybe you all are reacting that way?? OMG, my self-consciousness meter is going to go off the charts!!

I agree with the untrustworthy and psycho part. I think that "shunned"m rather than "like they're handicapped" might be right up there.

Each character may purchase and install a number of cybernetic enhancements and replacements equal to his Brawn rating, but no more.

So, the thing is with these. My character has 2 implants as a result of some severe injuries and has a Brawn of 2.

If I get another critical hit in the future which lops off a limb, what happens now?

Each character may purchase and install a number of cybernetic enhancements and replacements equal to his Brawn rating, but no more.

So, the thing is with these. My character has 2 implants as a result of some severe injuries and has a Brawn of 2.

If I get another critical hit in the future which lops off a limb, what happens now?

You can't benefit from another cybernetic upgrade. You could boost your Brawn via a Dedication and then you'd be able to benefit.

I had the same issue with replacements some time ago and asked about it around here. The idea I finally introduced into our games was similar to your 1) - in general people with cybernetics are treated as handicapped or are not trusted, or treated as if they were borderline psychos (if it is obvious that they willingly cut off their limbs). So your idea of harder social interactions is the best.

Cybernetics also require (I think) constant monitoring, so you need a mechanic around, otherwise it might start malfunctioning under strain (threats?).

In the old WEG system, people with cybernetics weren't trusted and were more open to the Dark Side (even if they didn't have Force powers). They weren't treated as handicapped. That is a completely different sort of social reaction.

You can't benefit from another cybernetic upgrade. You could boost your Brawn via a Dedication and then you'd be able to benefit.

But thats the kicker, do I retire my character for the next 200xp it would take to get another career.

What if I want to keep playing and just get a prosthetic to run around on in the meantime?

I understand FFG likes arbitrary rules for various mechanical reasons, however, I have never extracted a straight answer that tells me exactly 'what' happens when you exceed the brawn threshold. After all I'm sure there's plenty of people running around that have 2 prosthetic limbs, maybe 2-3 replacement organs due to some horrible accident, that also have just their baseline species brawn of 2-3

You can't benefit from another cybernetic upgrade. You could boost your Brawn via a Dedication and then you'd be able to benefit.

But thats the kicker, do I retire my character for the next 200xp it would take to get another career.

What if I want to keep playing and just get a prosthetic to run around on in the meantime?

I understand FFG likes arbitrary rules for various mechanical reasons, however, I have never extracted a straight answer that tells me exactly 'what' happens when you exceed the brawn threshold. After all I'm sure there's plenty of people running around that have 2 prosthetic limbs, maybe 2-3 replacement organs due to some horrible accident, that also have just their baseline species brawn of 2-3

That depends on your GM. You can probably get a prosthetic limb to replace the lost one, but not gain any mechanical benefit from it (no stat bump).

You can't benefit from another cybernetic upgrade. You could boost your Brawn via a Dedication and then you'd be able to benefit.

But thats the kicker, do I retire my character for the next 200xp it would take to get another career.

What if I want to keep playing and just get a prosthetic to run around on in the meantime?

I understand FFG likes arbitrary rules for various mechanical reasons, however, I have never extracted a straight answer that tells me exactly 'what' happens when you exceed the brawn threshold. After all I'm sure there's plenty of people running around that have 2 prosthetic limbs, maybe 2-3 replacement organs due to some horrible accident, that also have just their baseline species brawn of 2-3

That depends on your GM. You can probably get a prosthetic limb to replace the lost one, but not gain any mechanical benefit from it (no stat bump).

Yeah, speaking for myself I'd only enforce that particular rule when it involves enhancements, not replacements. Having a character confined to a repulsorchair for umpteeen sessions because his leg got shot off and he didn't have the Brawn to get a prostethic replacement would be pretty sucky.

Droid rights in general is something that's a big theme in our games (mostly because it never seemed to be properly addressed in the EU that I've ever seen).

So I play up the whole 'oppressed and persecuted droids' angle, and most people are strongly anti-droid rights, seeing them only as tools. Nobody wants to listen to the opinions of their toaster, after all.

(I actually had the Alliance as the only faction of the game to grant them full rights as a species - the Empire mistreats them and the Jedi have a special contempt for droids, being essentially Force-using supremacists who see mundanes as backward children... Nobody in the Alliance actually wanted droid rights, but they realised they would be colossal hypocrites if they didn't grant them full rights...)

So anyway, to play up this, there are no human-looking droids (Guri is now a clone, which have their own issues) and no easily-hidden cyberware. Anyone with cybernetics that replace a part lost in battle would be looked upon with pity and revulsion by any species which isn't a Gank, and someone deliberately replacing their meat parts with droid tech would be faced with utter disgust and a fistful of black dice for social checks.

One of the players actually wanted a character like Jeff 'Joker' Moreau in Mass Effect, a hotshot pilot who was physically crippled. I felt that might be hard to play in the actual game, so we discussed the character having replacement cybernetic limbs, and the self-hatred that would come with it.

(and let me add for Hayley's benefit and others - I love the way disabled or handicapped people are (mostly) treated with respect in the real world in 2015, treated as people and not disabilities. But I wanted this to be a 'dialled-up-to-eleven' issue for our 'StarWars Grindhouse' game...)

My players made the same muse when one had an arm burned badly.

We discovered that they are expensive, require maintenance, and are vulnerable to slicing and ion weapons. They also effect your about to use the force.

If a player wants to max/min, remind them the limb will open them up to hacking and approval damage types and reduce their effectiveness with the force. That Southold dissuade them.

If they persist, find something more paying for them to spend their money on.

Guri is now a clone? Where/when did that happen? (She's a major potential NPC, and the campaign has a Cyborg Syndicate playing a pivotal role as well.)

I'm just not sure how it actually applies. My own experience is that I get a lot of people who try to help me. Sometimes it's welcome so I never get rude about it because when I need help, I'd like it to be available. But a lot of the time, I politely tell the would-be helper that I need to be able to do things on my own but I appreciate their offer, will gladly let them know if I need their help after all, etc.

In the mundane world, I’ve had a number of friends who were challenged in different ways. I’ve found that most of them are pretty fiercely independent, and even when they could use a little help, they generally won’t ask for it — they’d rather try to do it themselves, and will only ask for help if they really need it.

So, the way I generally treat people who I can see are challenged in some way is to keep an eye on them, and see if I can determine that they could use some help. If so, then I offer to help, and if they refuse then I make sure they know that I’m still happy to help if I can. That way, they hopefully will find it easier to ask for help from me, should they need it.

And that process extends to just about anyone who could potentially use some help.

On the receiving end, if my knee is really hurting and I’m using a cane, that’s the way I would want to be treated — I’m still a whole person, and I want to be treated like a person. No more, no less.

My grandmother was still a whole person after she had her hip replacement surgery, and was walking around with a titanium ball joint in her hip.

And I try to do the polite things, like holding doors open for people, for everyone and not just those who might be challenged in some way.

Somehow, I don't imagine people reacting to someone with a robot part grafted to their body the same way they react to someone tapping and sweeping a cane to keep herself from walking into a wall…

Agreed.

I agree with the untrustworthy and psycho part. I think that "shunned" rather than "like they're handicapped" might be right up there.

Yeah, “shunned” is a much better term.

Guri is now a clone? Where/when did that happen? (She's a major potential NPC, and the campaign has a Cyborg Syndicate playing a pivotal role as well.)

I rewrote large amounts of the canon to suit our purposes; our game is more of a tribute to Star Wars than a Star Wars game. Should have made that clear sorry.

'Droids that look just like humans' seem so non-Star Wars-y to me. So for us, Threepio and protocol droids are about as human as they get, and most don't even look that human. Likewise, no high-tech hidden cyberlimbs in MY Star Wars game!

I want to stick with the 'clunky, low-tech sci-fi' feel. This is sci-fi as imagined in 1977. So no i-phones, a 1989-level internet, robots that actually look like robots. Things like 'nanotech' might only exist as part of a fantastically-advanced ancient civilization.

I agree with the untrustworthy and psycho part. I think that "shunned"m rather than "like they're handicapped" might be right up there.

I'm very sorry if I offended you or any handicapped people! Definitely not my intention (as I hope you realize). English is not my first language and sometimes I tend to translate directly from my native language collocations etc. But you guessed what I really meant "shunned" is perfect.

So anyway, to play up this, there are no human-looking droids.

Wait.... human-looking droids???

I'm very sorry if I offended you or any handicapped people! Definitely not my intention (as I hope you realize). English is not my first language and sometimes I tend to translate directly from my native language collocations etc. But you guessed what I really meant "shunned" is perfect.

I definitely wasn't offended... so long as you confirm that people aren't looking at me like I have a robot head or something!