So anyway, to play up this, there are no human-looking droids.

Wait.... human-looking droids???

Yeah, in the EU, Guri was a Human Replica Droid (HRD). She wasn’t the only one, but they were very rare.

I felt that droids who look just like humans belong to some other sci-fi tradition, not Star Wars. Our humanoid droid basically looks like Maria from Metropolis. A female Threepio, in other words.

Part of the appeal of SW for me is that the tech is clunky and unreliable.

So for our games, I had Guri be a clone, which is basically a biological droid. Who are not even considered at the level of droids in our games, and are used by the Jedi and Empire in vast numbers as mindless, disposable cannon fodder. Only Guri (and maybe a few others) have actually achieved some kind of independence and sentience, making them more like a high-end droid.

It's something I discussed with the players (all Mass Effect fans) and the whole 'droids vs meatbags' thing was intended to be a major theme of our games. I always felt it was kinda glossed over in canon.

I definitely wasn't offended... so long as you confirm that people aren't looking at me like I have a robot head or something!

Unless maybe you DO actually have a robot head or something, and you just THINK that you’re a human being.

Your real name wouldn’t happen to be Oswin Oswald, would it?

Remember kids, eat right and exercise to get your core strength up, but don't worry about arm and leg workouts 'cuz you're just getting in shape to do a cyber cut/paste job on those...

It's something I discussed with the players (all Mass Effect fans) and the whole 'droids vs meatbags' thing was intended to be a major theme of our games. I always felt it was kinda glossed over in canon.

I tried to look up Mass Effect but the wiki is HUGE. I'll ask my brother about it when I can... But I read about Guri and I guess I feel the same way. It doesn't have a Star Wars feel but, I suppose there's enough room in the Star Wars galaxy for lots of things that might not feel entirely right.

If she's active in your game, does she know who she was cloned from? I can see maybe wanting to meet that person if I was a clone. Could make for interesting stories if she gets the PC's to help her.

I have been considering the cybernetics rules in this game, and I have talked with my players. We have just decided to remove any bonuses coming from the cybernetic implants and just consider them as replacements for lost body parts and organs. We keep the Brawn cap for the maximum of implants a PC can have, me and my group come from a history of bloody rpgs and we are use to retire PCs sooner than later.

I think I will skip the ion gun menace against my players with implants. It really does not feel right to me, as a GM, to now start presenting NPCs armed with ion guns (a weapon that only affects droids) and firing at them. As I said, in my opinion, this will be only justified if a given PC is a famous cyborg (a la General Grievous). Otherwise it is just a too antagonistic attitude.

A short comment about Guri, since she appears in this thread. My first contact with the EU was the Heir to the Empire trilogy (ok and all WEG rpg material). Since I enjoyed the Heir to the Empire trilogy, I asked (in this forums) which other novels were good, as a quite unanimous answer people pointed towards the Shadows of the Empire book. I read it. After it, I decided if this was the quality of a good book based on SW that was all for me, no more EU. I just stick to the content of the movies.

Well, that last paragraph was just pure opinion, EU fans don't get offended please.

and to all of you thanks for posting here sharing your experiences and opinions, it helped.

Well, that last paragraph was just pure opinion, EU fans don't get offended please.

and to all of you thanks for posting here sharing your experiences and opinions, it helped.

Maelora (I think this is the second time in a week I'm citing her!) frequently points out that a lot of the things we look back and think poorly on were accepted because, at the time they were produced, there was nothing else. I can't imagine so much EU stuff would have been produced if it was as poor as you're assuming... but there's much of it that, for a newcomer to Star Wars, it is just to hard to deal with. I mean... i once made a joke about Grand Moff Tarkin's shoes or something and someone pointed out an EU link to an actual reference to either his boots or slippers or something!!! Don't joke about how Darth Vader uses the bathroom or you might not be too happy with what someone turns up.

On the list of unpopular opinions, I've made it pretty clear that I loved Jar Jar Binks but that's pretty far from the end of it. I think Episode 4 has long, boring, uninteresting parts that seem to be there because they were trying too hard. Episode 5 was completely confusing to me when I first saw it (I was pretty young) and because I already knew stuff. I mean... Leia was kissing her brother in a way I would never even THINK of kissing mine (srsly... I'd need to see a nurosurgeon to have that image surgically removed if I ever even imagined it) and their father was trying to kill Luke. WTH!!!! Episode 6 had cute, fuzzy, cuddly, waddling bears who beat up 'those meanie-pants stormtroopers' in the funniest ways. Guess which one was my favorite!

Droid rights in general is something that's a big theme in our games (mostly because it never seemed to be properly addressed in the EU that I've ever seen).

Take a look at Cynabar's Fantastic Technology: Droids from WEG - There are several droid's rights groups in there.

Maelora, there is a type of android called the bioroid. It's basically making robots using biotechnology.

I'd link to the Wikipedia article but I can't figure out how to link to it.

Maelora, there is a type of android called the bioroid. It's basically making robots using biotechnology.

I'd link to the Wikipedia article but I can't figure out how to link to it.

Copy link, paste link...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biorobotics

Or type words to be the link, highlight the words and click the chain looking button with the + symbol in it.

It seems on of the Droid special abilitys may have been overlooked by some here, or there are no Droid PC's in their group. Droids are allowed 6 cybernetic enhancements instead of their brawn ratings worth. Now while I completely agree a meat bag hacking off some limbs for enhancement is munchkin like, I think it's completely within the SW feel to pull a Droid to bits and re-build it with "better parts". IMHO the cost is the intended limiting factor, the droid needs to drop 49k (a small starship?) to achieve the full upgrade and seems to have been encouraged due to the limited characteristics they are able to get at creation.

By all means don't allow organic PC's to go wild, only allow enhancements when a limb is lost, and I don't think the "prosthetic" type should count. but nerfing the Droid seems unfair. Just my 2 cents

I dunno, 'biological droid' to me says 'clone'...

And yes, I'd have no issues with droids upgrading themselves, Richardbuxton. They get little respect as it is, maybe as well enjoy the potential for upgrades!

I don't really have a problem with the cybernetic limbs as written. The ones that actually enhance your attributes are really expensive and there's a cap on them anyway and it's not as if they're wildly unbalancing. Also, I don't really feel it's necessary or appropriate to tack on some social stigma. Star Wars is, socially, a pretty egalitarian society and I like to keep it that way. There are thousands of strange and wonderful races and machines with full personalities and people would get all concerned about a cybernetic limb? I don't see why we need to introduce some sort of Eighties cyberpunk-ish future-shock element to it. The people of the setting have been around this technology for a long-time and honestly, why wouldn't anyone in that society think a cybernetic replacement was an appropriate way of helping someone who had lost a limb? They might assume that it was the result of an accident rather than deliberate because, well, who would undergo extensive surgery, adjustment period and probable loss of sensitivity for the sake of minor strength boost? No-one, really, except players for whom such inconveniences are two seconds of exposition.

And for what it's worth, I have an ex- who is disabled. She is an amputee. Nobody regards her as less of a person or makes a big thing of it or calls her "challenged". She's just like everyone else and where necessary, practical assistance is given without question or fuss. It would be as appealing to me to introduce prejudice against such people into Star Wars as it would be to, say, have someone react to female PCs with "Ha! Shouldn't you be home cooking" or someone tell Lando Calrissian to "stick to his own kind". I've never got any of that vibe from Star Wars and I honestly don't want to.

And if none of that convinces, there is the simple practical reason which is that social prejudice for mechanical benefits don't work. The sort of player who replaces all their character's limbs isn't going to care if you tell them they'll be ostracized at parties. They're designed for combat and they know that the GM wont spoil the game for them or leave them excluded from the game because of what they do. They always win games of chicken with the GM, so it wont remotely discourage or balance cybernetic upgrades like that.

I should point out that a cybernetic replacement, and I quote, "obviously mechanical in nature." So if a person has a cybernetic replacement or enhancement it will be apparent with the exception of the implant armor (it's subdermal, so while it would be obvious to see it is easy to hide), immune implant (again, it is subdermal so it is easy to hide), and prosthetic replacements (only a close examination would betray their nature, this is what Luke has for a hand).

Cybernetic replacements would be seen as a social stigma, especially if the person is using a cybernetic brain implant (which has been known to cause psychosis).

Cybernetic replacements would be seen as a social stigma, especially if the person is using a cybernetic brain implant (which has been known to cause psychosis).

Why should cybernetic replacements be seen as a social stigma? Just because they're not trying to hide that they have an artificial limb? These are no longer things that people feel the need to conceal in our society, so why should Star Wars society that is already massively more diverse than our own and surrounded by so much more advanced technology, attach a stigma to it?

The only example of prejudice I can think of is Obi Wan talking about Vader, and Obi Wan turned out to be wrong. And even there it was pretty coloured view given that they had such an intense history and Anakin was so drastically altered not just in body, but in outlook, that Obi Wan was bound to see him as someone different to who he was before. Even without Vader's cybernetics, Obi Wan would certainly have said he was no longer the same person. Obi Wan is talking about someone he thinks should have died. That adds a very personal edge to his view on the machinery keeping Anakin alive. If Anakin had remained good and was kept alive by machinery, Obi Wan would certainly not have thought this way.

Luke's hand was, realistically, a concession to the fact that back then they couldn't do an advanced, realistic prosthetic hand so it had to be one that could look natural. But even taking it as a Death of the Author style thing where we deal with what we see on screen regardless of background reasons why they had to do it that way, it's hardly good reason to put social stigma in the game. Cyberpunk is dead, thankfully, and Star Wars never had that anti-technology motif running through it. Mostly it celebrates cool tech.

Why should cybernetic replcaements be seen as a social stigma? Just because they're not trying to hide that they have an artificial limb? These are no longer things that people feel the need to conceal in our society, so why should Star Wars society that is already massively more diverse than our own and surrounded by so much more advanced technology, attach a stigma to it?

Because the cybernetic brain implant has been known to cause psychosis AND a thing called the Clone Wars. Not only were there Droids, which are based on similar technology that cybernetics is based on, there were also cyborgs apart of the Separatists, namely a ruthless general named Grevious. Also, being more diverse doesn't mean they're more accepting. After all, the human based Galactic Empire was extremely xenophobic (just ask the wookies).

EDIT: Cyberpunk is not dead. Nor is cyberpunk anti-technology. Only bad sci-fi is anti-technology. Cyberpunk just looks at the dark side of technology, but don't forget heroes in cyberpunk use technology to combat the ones who are abusing it.

Why should cybernetic replcaements be seen as a social stigma? Just because they're not trying to hide that they have an artificial limb? These are no longer things that people feel the need to conceal in our society, so why should Star Wars society that is already massively more diverse than our own and surrounded by so much more advanced technology, attach a stigma to it?

Because the cybernetic brain implant has been known to cause psychosis

The comment I replied to explicitly encompassed obvious cyberlimbs and my reply was to that.

AND a thing called the Clone Wars. Not only were there Droids, which are based on similar technology that cybernetics is based on, there were also cyborgs apart of the Separatists, namely a ruthless general named Grevious.

These are easily shot down. If anti-droid feeling was so strong after the Clone Wars that people were prejudiced even against people having mechanical limbs, then they certainly wouldn't be happy to have actual droids running around everywhere in society. This doesn't work as a factor. And the fact that there was a noted cyborg general amongst the Seperatists does not mean that everyone is going to turn on cyborgs or discriminate against someone for not hiding their artificial limb.

EDIT: Cyberpunk is not dead. Neither is cyberpunk anti-technology. Only bad sci-fi is anti-technology. Cyberpunk just looks at the dark side of technology, but don't forget heroes in cyberpunk use technology to combat the ones who are abusing it.

One of the defining themes of Cyberpunk is dehumanization. You don't have to explain to me what it is, I know very well. It grew out of the Eighties with novels like Neuromancer and films like Bladerunner or even Robocop, and the phrase "Future Shock" was an integral part of it. Attitudes to technology have changed markedly in the last thirty years and that genre has shifted massively in favour of transhumanism. Cyberpunk was about machines altering our humanity and society in a dehumanizing way. Transhumanism takes a positive view on the same thing. The only people who relate to cyberpunk are in their late thirties at the youngest. Okay, cyberpunk may not be dead yet, but it smells that way.

who would undergo extensive surgery, adjustment period and probable loss of sensitivity for the sake of minor strength boost?

I think, given the rules as they are, the question is, Who would not?

The answer is only those who cannot afford it.

According to the rules, "the surgery" (no where in the rules is mentioned a surgery, although we agree there should be one) posses no risk, is 100% successful and you only gain.

Gain Strength, Agility, Intelligence, better vision, improve skills, soak...

These are not minor boost. If you change your arms and your Brawn goes from 2 to 3, this is a 50% increase! if it raises from 3 to 4 a 33%...

There is nothing about an adjustment period, loss of sensitivity, or anything similar.

My point is that star wars is not a game about cybernetics like cyberpunk or others. I think that the cybernetics are there for the sole purpose of "correcting" the effect of severe critical hits your character may suffer during a fight, so you can keep playing with your character. We know that many players won't be able to enjoy the game playing with a maimed character. If this is the case, if cybernetics are to correct the effect of combat, I don't see the need to grant bonuses to the stats or skills, it is already very nice reward that you can keep playing your character. Or if you want, as whafrog said, you can simulate the adjustment period, lose of sensitivity, or other difficulties inherent to attaching a non-organic thing to your body, by not granting any bonus.

who would undergo extensive surgery, adjustment period and probable loss of sensitivity for the sake of minor strength boost?

I think, given the rules as they are, the question is, Who would not? The answer is only those who cannot afford it.

And those who do not care. If you can bench 150kg, do you really care about being able to bench 170kg? Is the extra point of strength worth it in your daily life? No-one is going to go show you tonnes of respect when you just bought it any more than someone would be impressed by you racing Usain Bolt on your motorbike. Other than players who obsess over an extra point of damage, getting your limbs replaced isn't going to be a super-appealing thing to most people. And to athletes, it will be even less appealing - at that point you're no longer competing on your abilities or skills, you're a show model for a technology company. Basically, you're approaching this from a player mindset, not a person in-universe mindset. Bullied teenage boys might sometimes think it's cool to get one but that's where adults step in to say "no, wait until you're older".

And just to emphasize the point, you might decide that there is no adjustment period needed or that it's fully as sensitive and capable as your natural limb or that there are no maintenance costs etc. but as you say, the book doesn't even mention surgery but there plainly is. You can order things how you like in your own game but to me and I would say most, even with Star Wars tech getting your limbs replaced is not going to be a convenient in, out and forget about it.

knasserll is right. The bonuses are marginal. You're getting a +1 in a stat at best, which should only be limited to the augmentation itself. Kind of silly to say you have a +1 to hit and damage when wielding a sword in your natural arm and not your cybernetic one.

You could rule that Despair rolls have a chance to damage either the weapon or the cybernetic part and require either Mechanics or Medicine roll to repair, joints are just as likely to lock up and break as blasters and vibroswords. Another thing to take in consideration is that stimpacks aren't going to heal any damage done to cybernetics, so depending on how much cybernetics a person takes on they'd only be able to benefit so much from stimpacks (could quick rule it as -3 or -4 healing from stimpack per limb) and might even need rely on Emergency Repair Patch or cybernetic's self repair to fully "heal." Cybernetic enhancements might also require more metabolic energy (food) or a special diet which would increase cost of rations for the person (or if you're adding more immersion rules, the cost of living). I'd also imagine cybernetic enhancements are illegal on most civilized worlds outside of special circumstances; after all, what is a civilian going to need more strength for? Might even require registration at a customs office or require limiters when on civilized worlds (assuming that the cybernetics is detectable). People with the brain implant might not be allowed at gambling tables (or even allowed in casinos).

And like I said before, the majority of the enhancements are obvious. So if you run into guys with easy access to ion weapons, they're gonna know to use ion weapons on the cyborg (and they do take full, albeit stun, damage).

To OP: Id Require A Discipline ChecK, At The Very Least. I Mean, We're Kinda Attached To Our Limbs (Pun Intended). Id Also Give Black Die ToRelated Checks While Getting Used To It. Plus Recovery Time. Cost Of.the Surgery On Top Of The Bionic Itself. And Then There's A Limit On How Many You Can Have Based On Brawn. My Gunslinger With A Brawn One RecentlyLost Her Arm And Had It Replaced. If I Lose An Eye, IM Sol.