I was wondering if any of you have used expose yet with your decimators and if so, how was it?

So far I think I will run two tie defenders with mine.

Please let me know what decimator list have been working for you.

tried it wasn't all that great.. had better luck running predator and using the extra 7 points for other stuff. as you need IE for it to work good with out losing an action. however the resulting stress takes away a bunch of maneuverability next turn. And for 7 points you can get a couple of GOOD crew members...

It worked ok - a must with EI to allow you to TL or focus as well. I abandoned it for other lists because I found it too difficult to strip stress every round and stay in the fight (no green 1s on the dial). Others may have had greater success than I, though.

It worked ok - a must with EI to allow you to TL or focus as well. I abandoned it for other lists because I found it too difficult to strip stress every round and stay in the fight (no green 1s on the dial). Others may have had greater success than I, though.

I found it worked a lot better if you only used it when the time was right. Range one shots, or doing a 2 manuever when the time is right

Morgan Reid went 6-0 at an Australian tournament with

Admiral Chiraneau, Expose, Isard, Reb Cap, Experimental Interface

Whisper, VI, FCS, ACD

I had a terrible amount of success with Chiraneau, Expose,Experimental Interface, Jerjerrod and some flunkies with Soontir Fel as support

Used kenkirk with EI expose and isard a couple of times now and it's really impressive, last game I killed a head Hunter at range one with three hits and two crits.

It's taken on HLC dash and won.

The three academy tie fighters had little to do.

Used kenkirk with EI expose and isard a couple of times now and it's really impressive, last game I killed a head Hunter at range one with three hits and two crits.

It's taken on HLC dash and won.

The three academy tie fighters had little to do.

It works better with chiraneau though, it really just removes kenkirks ability.

I have had to stop using the decimator for a while because I was winning so much it got boring.

Admiral Cheerios

Isaard

Mara

Weapons Engineer

Expose

Experimental interface

Admirals ability acts as a focus, WE ensures I have a TL on my target, expose gives my 5 dice at range 1, focused and TLed. Had the bes luck with it with 3 academies. The academies block things to prevent too many ships from getting me in arc and the decimator destroys a ship a turn.

I think people that are having trouble with it dont see its full power...EI+Expose+Ysanne is just sick. Why? You can use the free action from Ysanne to pop Expose, grantingn you Focus/TL, Expose, and an evade in exchange for a stress. I always run 1 or 2 wingmen with this to help with stress, but its not mandatory. Before Ysanne is active, use Ei normally, once shes around, don't pop expose until she grants an evade during combat start. Imo this is better than Pred because you can still focus/TL every round, rolling 5 dice at R1. Stress management is no worse than using PTL, with the added benefit of never needing(or being able to) Kturn.

Adm Cheery (62)

-Expose

-EI

-Rebel Cap(or Vader for lulz)

-Moff JJ

-Ysanne

My experience was more like the first few posts than the last couple posts. I tried it, and yeah it did stuff, but I'm not sure that my points couldn't have been better spent elsewhere. I'd be curious to see some Mathwinging that compared Decimator-Expose to Decimator-Gunner.

Well expose and imterface would be best on t rear admiral

His ability gives a minor focus which leaves his action to target lock.

The key is not to use expose when your in a position that will be difficult to clear the stress.

My experience was more like the first few posts than the last couple posts. I tried it, and yeah it did stuff, but I'm not sure that my points couldn't have been better spent elsewhere. I'd be curious to see some Mathwinging that compared Decimator-Expose to Decimator-Gunner.

There was one but I'm too lazy to find it. I believe that since Expose eats up an action that even an unmodified Decimator wins out in average hits due to having extra modifiers. Yes you can add more upgrades onto Expose, or use a named pilot but then you're dumping in more resources to make your expensive ship slightly more reliable then the unupgraded version. So ya, gunner wins.

My experience was more like the first few posts than the last couple posts. I tried it, and yeah it did stuff, but I'm not sure that my points couldn't have been better spent elsewhere. I'd be curious to see some Mathwinging that compared Decimator-Expose to Decimator-Gunner.

There was one but I'm too lazy to find it. I believe that since Expose eats up an action that even an unmodified Decimator wins out in average hits due to having extra modifiers. Yes you can add more upgrades onto Expose, or use a named pilot but then you're dumping in more resources to make your expensive ship slightly more reliable then the unupgraded version. So ya, gunner wins.

Gunner on chir won't beat ei+exp chir.

Pred+gunner chir won't even beat ei+exp chir, and it's more expensive too.

My experience was more like the first few posts than the last couple posts. I tried it, and yeah it did stuff, but I'm not sure that my points couldn't have been better spent elsewhere. I'd be curious to see some Mathwinging that compared Decimator-Expose to Decimator-Gunner.

There was one but I'm too lazy to find it. I believe that since Expose eats up an action that even an unmodified Decimator wins out in average hits due to having extra modifiers. Yes you can add more upgrades onto Expose, or use a named pilot but then you're dumping in more resources to make your expensive ship slightly more reliable then the unupgraded version. So ya, gunner wins.

Some people dont read threads before posting...

My experience was more like the first few posts than the last couple posts. I tried it, and yeah it did stuff, but I'm not sure that my points couldn't have been better spent elsewhere. I'd be curious to see some Mathwinging that compared Decimator-Expose to Decimator-Gunner.

There was one but I'm too lazy to find it. I believe that since Expose eats up an action that even an unmodified Decimator wins out in average hits due to having extra modifiers. Yes you can add more upgrades onto Expose, or use a named pilot but then you're dumping in more resources to make your expensive ship slightly more reliable then the unupgraded version. So ya, gunner wins.

Gunner on vanilla deci won't win vs ei+exp on chir. It's not even close.

Gunner on chir won't beat ei+exp chir.

Pred+gunner chir won't even beat ei+exp chir, and it's more expensive too.

There is an article in Team Covenant about EI decimator, and Paul Heaver (AKA the two times world champion) explains why is not a very smart idea to stress yourself in a 0 agi ship without engine upgrade. You basically telegraph your next turn's position. The list with a Fat Han is usually mistaken about the ship being resilient. is not only that, is the power of arcdodging everyone between PS 1 and 8 if needed. The secret of the list is that is actually FAST Han. The Falcon still have solid mechanics to soak some damage, thing the decimator does not have, and then, to hard turn after a round of shooting you must maneuver at least 3-4 times depending on you having fired or not during all those turns.

The decimator is relatively new, so It's not surprising a top player like Morgan won a tournament with EI + Expose Chiraneau, while people still don't have a counter to that ship. Here, a guy played that list during a tournament and won, but people were still asking for explanations everytime he triggered EI from Issard. People learn. People change their ways.

Mathwing also explains that there is not a big damage difference between Predator + Engine Chiraneau and EI + Expose. If you don't have a gunner, it's even worse against a high agility target. There is both math and Major Juggler around here that also explained the combo in Nova Squadron, and the main weakness for him was that the increase in damage (Still lower than LW + RecSpec Dash) does not make up the fact that the mobility sucks, and stress would be a problem. Also, almost everyone who uses a decimator puts a Rebel captive on it. Even predator Oicunn can outdamage you while bumping your very predictable movements.

EI + expose only becomes effective if you manage to shed stress (Two black squadron wingmen?), but if not... you don't depend on your skill, but in pure luck and lack of thinking of your adversary. You hit like a truck when you're allowed to, but 1 tiny stress mechanic and you're not only losing 7 points. Youre losing a reliable way to damage the enemy.

Did I forget you can't get into the HLC outrider harmless hole? Well, you can't.

After all this blatant criticism, I'll say that the list have it's favorable pairings, and you may eat a Phantom if you manage to stress him. Or cheap escorts. You get utterly destroyed (No exageration) by swarms, and 4 ships rebel lists or control lists make your day more difficult.

You could still have a lot of fun if your enemy doesn't know how to fight you, or your 4 green movements. Heck, even with luck involved, you could win unfavorable trades if the enemy gets frustrated. Still, not unbalanced at all, just fun to use. I foresee more stress/ion/swarms if people want to win with ease.

My experience was more like the first few posts than the last couple posts. I tried it, and yeah it did stuff, but I'm not sure that my points couldn't have been better spent elsewhere. I'd be curious to see some Mathwinging that compared Decimator-Expose to Decimator-Gunner.

There was one but I'm too lazy to find it. I believe that since Expose eats up an action that even an unmodified Decimator wins out in average hits due to having extra modifiers. Yes you can add more upgrades onto Expose, or use a named pilot but then you're dumping in more resources to make your expensive ship slightly more reliable then the unupgraded version. So ya, gunner wins.

Gunner on vanilla deci won't win vs ei+exp on chir. It's not even close.

Gunner on chir won't beat ei+exp chir.

Pred+gunner chir won't even beat ei+exp chir, and it's more expensive too.

There is an article in Team Covenant about EI decimator, and Paul Heaver (AKA the two times world champion) explains why is not a very smart idea to stress yourself in a 0 agi ship without engine upgrade. You basically telegraph your next turn's position. The list with a Fat Han is usually mistaken about the ship being resilient. is not only that, is the power of arcdodging everyone between PS 1 and 8 if needed. The secret of the list is that is actually FAST Han. The Falcon still have solid mechanics to soak some damage, thing the decimator does not have, and then, to hard turn after a round of shooting you must maneuver at least 3-4 times depending on you having fired or not during all those turns.

The decimator is relatively new, so It's not surprising a top player like Morgan won a tournament with EI + Expose Chiraneau, while people still don't have a counter to that ship. Here, a guy played that list during a tournament and won, but people were still asking for explanations everytime he triggered EI from Issard. People learn. People change their ways.

Mathwing also explains that there is not a big damage difference between Predator + Engine Chiraneau and EI + Expose. If you don't have a gunner, it's even worse against a high agility target. There is both math and Major Juggler around here that also explained the combo in Nova Squadron, and the main weakness for him was that the increase in damage (Still lower than LW + RecSpec Dash) does not make up the fact that the mobility sucks, and stress would be a problem. Also, almost everyone who uses a decimator puts a Rebel captive on it. Even predator Oicunn can outdamage you while bumping your very predictable movements.

EI + expose only becomes effective if you manage to shed stress (Two black squadron wingmen?), but if not... you don't depend on your skill, but in pure luck and lack of thinking of your adversary. You hit like a truck when you're allowed to, but 1 tiny stress mechanic and you're not only losing 7 points. Youre losing a reliable way to damage the enemy.

Did I forget you can't get into the HLC outrider harmless hole? Well, you can't.

After all this blatant criticism, I'll say that the list have it's favorable pairings, and you may eat a Phantom if you manage to stress him. Or cheap escorts. You get utterly destroyed (No exageration) by swarms, and 4 ships rebel lists or control lists make your day more difficult.

You could still have a lot of fun if your enemy doesn't know how to fight you, or your 4 green movements. Heck, even with luck involved, you could win unfavorable trades if the enemy gets frustrated. Still, not unbalanced at all, just fun to use. I foresee more stress/ion/swarms if people want to win with ease.

It has no problems with 4 ship rebel builds. It actually tears them apart.

It has problems with control, but it needs to be a full control build. One stress is annoying, but the ship is still hitting harder than a pred+eu chir.

Mobility is not great, but it's also a turret.

I've also killed quite a few super dashes with the list. Contrary to popular belief, he's not invincible but for the donut hole.

And no, pred+rc oicunn does not beat chir with only ysanne. They do roughly the same damage including oicunn's ram, but chir does it first and generally gets at least one crit every attack.

Also, arc dodging is nice against non turrets. It's almost a waste in this competitive environment though. The ei+exp chir is a counter-meta build. It happens to do pretty well anyway as you're putting a giant canon on a tank, but primarily it destroys high hull ships and low (5 or less) overall hp ships.

The decimator has plenty of green moves to remove the stress EI causes and as a big ship it's never going to be that hard to predict as it can't barrel roll.

I used TL with expose and killed a b-wing in two turns as well as a headhunter in one and dash over three turns all in the same game, the decimator dropped to three hull points but it laid down consistent deadly damage.

Now I've only had a few games but the decimator has impressed me with its durability and options.

To the OP, how are you going to run two Defenders and a Decimator with expose? Cheapest ships of those types would land you at 100 pts and wouldn't allow you to run expose since those ships doesn't have an EPT slot. Or am I missing something?

Chiraneau, Expose,Experimental Interface

= 360° HLC with 5 dice in range 1.

I like it

My experience was more like the first few posts than the last couple posts. I tried it, and yeah it did stuff, but I'm not sure that my points couldn't have been better spent elsewhere. I'd be curious to see some Mathwinging that compared Decimator-Expose to Decimator-Gunner.

There was one but I'm too lazy to find it. I believe that since Expose eats up an action that even an unmodified Decimator wins out in average hits due to having extra modifiers. Yes you can add more upgrades onto Expose, or use a named pilot but then you're dumping in more resources to make your expensive ship slightly more reliable then the unupgraded version. So ya, gunner wins.

Gunner on vanilla deci won't win vs ei+exp on chir. It's not even close.

Gunner on chir won't beat ei+exp chir.

Pred+gunner chir won't even beat ei+exp chir, and it's more expensive too.

There is an article in Team Covenant about EI decimator, and Paul Heaver (AKA the two times world champion) explains why is not a very smart idea to stress yourself in a 0 agi ship without engine upgrade. You basically telegraph your next turn's position. The list with a Fat Han is usually mistaken about the ship being resilient. is not only that, is the power of arcdodging everyone between PS 1 and 8 if needed. The secret of the list is that is actually FAST Han. The Falcon still have solid mechanics to soak some damage, thing the decimator does not have, and then, to hard turn after a round of shooting you must maneuver at least 3-4 times depending on you having fired or not during all those turns.

The decimator is relatively new, so It's not surprising a top player like Morgan won a tournament with EI + Expose Chiraneau, while people still don't have a counter to that ship. Here, a guy played that list during a tournament and won, but people were still asking for explanations everytime he triggered EI from Issard. People learn. People change their ways.

Mathwing also explains that there is not a big damage difference between Predator + Engine Chiraneau and EI + Expose. If you don't have a gunner, it's even worse against a high agility target. There is both math and Major Juggler around here that also explained the combo in Nova Squadron, and the main weakness for him was that the increase in damage (Still lower than LW + RecSpec Dash) does not make up the fact that the mobility sucks, and stress would be a problem. Also, almost everyone who uses a decimator puts a Rebel captive on it. Even predator Oicunn can outdamage you while bumping your very predictable movements.

EI + expose only becomes effective if you manage to shed stress (Two black squadron wingmen?), but if not... you don't depend on your skill, but in pure luck and lack of thinking of your adversary. You hit like a truck when you're allowed to, but 1 tiny stress mechanic and you're not only losing 7 points. Youre losing a reliable way to damage the enemy.

Did I forget you can't get into the HLC outrider harmless hole? Well, you can't.

After all this blatant criticism, I'll say that the list have it's favorable pairings, and you may eat a Phantom if you manage to stress him. Or cheap escorts. You get utterly destroyed (No exageration) by swarms, and 4 ships rebel lists or control lists make your day more difficult.

You could still have a lot of fun if your enemy doesn't know how to fight you, or your 4 green movements. Heck, even with luck involved, you could win unfavorable trades if the enemy gets frustrated. Still, not unbalanced at all, just fun to use. I foresee more stress/ion/swarms if people want to win with ease.

Mathwing actually shows a roughly 1 damage increase running ei+exp chir vs pred+eu chair. That's a huge increase in damage and makes getting that crit through all the more likely.

It has no problems with 4 ship rebel builds. It actually tears them apart.

It has problems with control, but it needs to be a full control build. One stress is annoying, but the ship is still hitting harder than a pred+eu chir.

Mobility is not great, but it's also a turret.

I've also killed quite a few super dashes with the list. Contrary to popular belief, he's not invincible but for the donut hole.

And no, pred+rc oicunn does not beat chir with only ysanne. They do roughly the same damage including oicunn's ram, but chir does it first and generally gets at least one crit every attack.

Also, arc dodging is nice against non turrets. It's almost a waste in this competitive environment though. The ei+exp chir is a counter-meta build. It happens to do pretty well anyway as you're putting a giant canon on a tank, but primarily it destroys high hull ships and low (5 or less) overall hp ships.

If you insist THAT much, I'll give it a try tomorrow. I think it could really shine against a fat Han, if Fat han does not limit himself to kill the escort and run away from range 1-2. Nice discussion we had there

As a sidenote, arcdodging is still very important against turrets, since unless is a 2 turrets build, there will be arcs to dodge!

PS: Yesterday, playing against 4 ship rebel list (Prototype, Kyle Katarn, Biggs, Garven), I played:

Chiraneau, Pred, Gunner, Ysanne, Rebel, Engine

Dark Curse

Mauler, Lone Wolf.

It worked wonders, even after one turn where Chiraneau was blocked by the prototype, that was the last turn I got shot. Dark curse pursuing Kyle was hilarious, with him not being able to use the focus token to shoot. Also, biggs had always agi 3, and two focus tokens, but gunner helped a lot. I know it's going to sound very average, but I think Dark Curse is great to follow decimators, since it's unmitigated damage most of the time, and very hard to put down. Maybe your Chiraneau...

Expose works best with Chiraneau since you get a mini-focus built in. Also you typically want Experimental interface but it isn't absolutely necessary, as you CAN always roll 4 hits and save a target lock for the following turn, then you have a mini focus, Expose, and Target Lock all for 1 action.

Many times while running expose and EI, I would find myself taking only 1 action anyhow, simply to avoid the stress.

I tried out expose and EI on the rear admiral, and while it worked alright, I'd rather have ptl and engine upgrade (for boosting in the combat phase from Issard).

TL + expose were my usual actions, and 5 dice at range 1 is lovely without a doubt, but I really wish I had a focus most of the time.

I've often debated which is better

The expose experimental interface combo

Or

Predator and Engine upgrade on the rear admiral

The problem i found is that when he is taking stress your only greens are two manuevers. Sometimes that's taking you farther than you want to go, and your becoming predictable.

I've also found I've not used expose every turn due to thinking ahead next turn and found doing a 2 bank or straight was putting me close to the edge of the board, or in some cases to far away to shoot.

In some games that would leave me doing a white maneuver and now I'm still stressed.

Where as with predator and Engine upgrade while your not getting that extra dmg, your moves are not being hindered by any stress. With predator and his ability you have a mini focus/target lock ability, leaving you a much better chance to boost out of possible arcs, and if against super dashes get into his blind spot

If you come across a rebel captive, or action denied build it's not going to effect him much thanks to predator and his pilot ability

We've all seen how hard old Han can be with boost.

If you have the points you can add gunner as well, which will still benifit predator and pilot ability

Whenever I've used the rear admiral I've used expose and experimental interface but as typing this I want to try predator and Engine upgrade. I have lots of squads saved on my phone with this

Should really give it a try

To anyone who has used both. Which do you find more effective?

Expose Experimental interface?

Predator and Engine upgrade?

Edit

With that said I have seen the rear admiral with expose, experimental interface with vader 1 shot a bomber

Range 2 he rolled 3 hits and a focus, which turned to a crit. Bomber rolled 2 blanks while focus. Gets a direct hit and vader finished him off

It was nasty but i still think Vader has no place on such an expensive ship. May work for some games, but i don't think it's going to work for many others

Yikes, Vader on a loaded 60 pt. Rear Admiral gives me the chills...

Every time you use Vader, you pretty much blow 8 points of your 100 pts list. So, use ONLY if those 8 points are going to be paid off (Finishing a ship, basically).

In my mind, Vader COULD, and only COULD go on kenkirk, with Yssane, and Moff Jerjerrod to throw him through the airlock once you've got your first nasty crit, or even force Yssane's activation. Even then, Vader belongs in a shuttle, or patrol leader.

tomorrow i'm trying the infamous EI + Expose build. I consider myself a good navigator, but my rival is too, so let's see what can I do with my movement crippled by mostly green movements. I think I'm getting someone with wingman EPT, to keep things less predictable.

Going to miss the engine SO MUCH.