Hello everyone,

Long story short, I have a store tournie coming up on Sunday and there's $20 store credit on the line so you know it'll be cut-throat. While I'm very excited for what Wave 6 & the Tie/x1 will do to the meta, they obviously won't be available in time for the tournie.

Personally, I have never had much problem with Wave 4 and phantoms, finding them reliably predictable with blocking and obstructions (really, the mini-swarm was more dangerous). With Wave 5, though, the local boogeyman has been Phantom + Decimator lists combining the worst of the forum's fears into a single list.

Why win rate against this composition has been hovering around 50/50, and every game I've had to work my ass off keeping the two nimble buggers in arc. I've had decent successes with Jake Farrel with accompanying Bs and imperial Boba (don't laugh) with a mini-swarm, but I really want to bury this kind of list into the ground because I just hate turrets.

Now I've used Wes before to deadly effect against Phantoms, but he didn't gel with me so well. His ability and R3-A2 seemed like hard counters to a very specific ship and it just wasn't as fun to me next to nimble all comers (like Jake and Boba). With this new meta in tow, however, I think this is his perfect time to shine.

Wes Janson (29), Veteran Instincts (1), R3-A2 (2), Engine Upgrade (4) = 36

With engine upgrade to course correct, it's very easy to keep Whisper (not so much echo) in arc. With the devastating effect of pre-shot stress on phantoms (no re-cloak), Wes doesn't even have to deal damage with his attack to take them out of the game. His squad-mates can take care of that for him. Against the Decimator + Phantom lists, knocking off Target-lock cuts down significantly on incoming fire while stress forces predictable maneuvers leading to easier blocks.

The problem now is deciding what to take with him. I'm thinking B-wings have the best natural bulk and firepower per cost to overpower turreted ships, and they more than most benefit from the amount of damage cut by Wes' anti-TL shenanigans. Still, one mind is rarely as good as several, so I'm hoping for your input

Expect to encounter plenty of Whispers, one Echo, and Chiraneaus as far as the eye can see.

Currently considering:

I

1.) Wes (36)

2.) Blue Squadron, FCS --> imo, very effective loadout for soaking damage and dealing it back

3.) Blue Squadron, FCS --> ditto

4.) Proto-type pilot, Refit OR Bandit + Ion Pulse + Failsafe

[99 points for Proto] --> some people really like VI Chiraneau

[100 for Bandit]

II

1.) Wes (36)

2.) Airen, VI (20)

3.) Blue Squadron (22)

4.) Blue Squadron (22)

[100]

III

1.) Wes (36)

2.) Biggs (25) --> turrets hate him because he's always a viable target

3.) Tarn, R7 (25) --> R7's re-rolls are murder when your opponent is depending on one to two shots as their entire list's offense which will let him split from Biggs without much issue.

4.)Tala (13) --> because that's all that fits

[99 points] --> some people really like VI Chiraneau

Feedback is appreciated

If you really want Wes, i would recommend your first list with the Bandit plus missile.

The second one just lacks staying power versus Chiraneau plus Phantom.

You just need to kill the phantom first but for someone who says he has no problems with them, that should not be an issue.

Against the meta you are facing there, i would perhaps recommend:

Roark Garnet (19)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Wild Space Fringer (30)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Tactical Jammer (1)

Wild Space Fringer (30)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Tactical Jammer (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Against Phantoms and Chiraneau it's quite good.

It's weakness is Super Dash, especially with Corran. But as you think that list won't be present...

If you really want Wes, i would recommend your first list with the Bandit plus missile.

The second one just lacks staying power versus Chiraneau plus Phantom.

You just need to kill the phantom first but for someone who says he has no problems with them, that should not be an issue.*

*in the wave 4 meta

The Phantom + mini-swarm meant there was less space for the phantom to maneuver between obstructions and my own mini-swarm, which limit their linear (non-echo) decloaks to one or two options.

With only Chiraneau to limit her (while not giving a crap about his facing so he has plenty of positions he can be in), Whisper has a much freer reign of the table and I've found that I need V.I Jake or Boba to outmaneuver her. Well, that's the theory behind why Wes has EU, anyway. He doesn't need to outmanuever her, he just needs to line 1 shot. Hoping EU plus PS 10 and my experience will be enough to secure that.

Vote for double blues (Fcs) and missile bandit noted. It's the least fancy, but it does seem quite reliable.

Lastly, I would love to try out your Fringer list, as I've been struggling to do something with mine after I got bored of dash. Sadly, I only own one

Between Biggs and Tarn, you have a lot of defense, and I'm not sure you need quite that much. The list isn't bad at all, but that where I would consider dropping something if somethingsomething more interesting came to your attention.

Yeah man just if the guy is smart he will keep the Phantom back and let Chiraneau do the fighting for a little bit, and try to hurt Wes. That's the reason why i suggested the Bandit instead of the A-Wing. So at least you can predict the Decimator for one turn so you can point all your guns at it for sure. If it dies before Wes you should win the game. I still find it difficult to get the decisive shot at Echo, but if you say you can, good!

Along the lines of what ForceM recommended, you could do this

98pts

Wes Janson w/ veteran instincs, R3-A2 & engine upgrade

Roark Garnet w/ ion turret

Wild Space Fringer w/ HLC & tactical jammer

2pts left for initiative bid, flechette torpedo, Jan Ors crew, a couple Intel Agents, upgrading Fringer to Eaden Vrill... options galore!

Along the lines of what ForceM recommended, you could do this

98pts

Wes Janson w/ veteran instincs, R3-A2 & engine upgrade

Roark Garnet w/ ion turret

Wild Space Fringer w/ HLC & tactical jammer

2pts left for initiative bid, flechette torpedo, Jan Ors crew, a couple Intel Agents, upgrading Fringer to Eaden Vrill... options galore!

Yeah in that case Vrill would make sense, and idk if HLC is needed. R3A2 plus Vrill is a phoned in combo.

I just don't know if the list can still deal with Decimatorss at that point. Also if you increase Vrills PS to 12, he fires before Wes which is not a good option. So i would rather take Jan Ors for better Turret fun with Vrill if you leave the HLC at home!

I have also seen this build be the perfect off switch for super dash.

As an Echo player, I really hate Wes with VI, R3-A2, and engine, so you built that ship right! :-D I would vote for list 3, considering I'm probably gonna play some version of Echo and Decimator at tournaments.

With list 1 and 2, I would just try to kill Wes with Chiraneau and keep echo the hell away from him until he's dead, the your other ships are toast to echo. With list 3, Chiraneau might not be able to kill Wes fast because of Biggs, and then echo may have to take risks before Wes is dead. Chiraneau would also die fast to 3 X-Wing if not flown well. So I think that one gives you the best chance, even though in the hands of a good player, it would still be pretty even and come down to maneuvering and some key shots. At least it'll be fun!

Good luck, though I secretly hope Echo wins. :-P

I'm more curious how you want to go up against a lone wolf gunner chiraneau / kenkrik using wes, since his ability wouldnt be so effective against targets that doesn't depend on tokens to manipulate their dice results.

if you ask me, I'd probably recommend Eating A Boat, the crits can and does rack up very quickly on large ships, and when their effects start stacking up, the falcon/decimator can get into trouble very quickly. Unfortunately, these builds fall apart very quickly when up against ACD phantoms, but since you claim to be able to handle them, it shouldnt be too much of a worry

I prefer my Wes paired with opportunist dudes, specially since with the stressbot, it comboes really well against PtL/EI ships, not to speak phantoms if you manage to get it.

Killing decimators is not that big of a deal. Killing Dash is another whole story in my experience.

I've run admiral Cheerios and echo quite often, and my common opponent prefers 4 ship rebel builds. The most effective thing he has ever hit me with has been 3 attack dice ships and Etahn. Those crits disable the decimator so fast it's funny, leaving a 35 point echo usually against 2-3 undamaged heavy hitters.

I prefer my Wes paired with opportunist dudes, specially since with the stressbot, it comboes really well against PtL/EI ships, not to speak phantoms if you manage to get it.

Killing decimators is not that big of a deal. Killing Dash is another whole story in my experience.

Luke Skywalker (28)

Lone Wolf (2)

R2-D2 (4)

Wes Janson (29)

Veteran Instincts (1)

R3-A2 (2)

Wedge Antilles (29)

Opportunist (4)

R2 Astromech (1)

Total: 100

Good thing is that phantoms have to be really careful when engaging, something that can earn you plenty of time. It's also worth noting that Luke can go alone and just pewpew the decimator on his own, forcing the phantom to act.

Bad thing is that they are Xwing, and it's very risky, a good turn of the opponent and he manages to slip through, and you can say bye bye.

YT2400 lists, and Fat hans are the ones that gives me fits in the practice games. Swarms not so much if played right, specially because you can get enough damage through that lone wolf Luke will become impossible to kill, and Phantoms is a 50/50. It relies a lot on getting wedge to shoot at it before Wedge or Wes dies. If that happens, it's GG right there. If i end up against a decimator with Luke, is actually not so bad, he is kinda like Corran, but with less burst.

The list is not amazing, but it's the best i had come up for nowadays meta involving X's.

It's a little too many "ifs" for my taste.

The feedback keeps piling in

I'm more curious how you want to go up against a lone wolf gunner chiraneau / kenkrik using wes, since his ability wouldnt be so effective against targets that doesn't depend on tokens to manipulate their dice results.

if you ask me, I'd probably recommend Eating A Boat, the crits can and does rack up very quickly on large ships, and when their effects start stacking up, the falcon/decimator can get into trouble very quickly. Unfortunately, these builds fall apart very quickly when up against ACD phantoms, but since you claim to be able to handle them, it shouldnt be too much of a worry

Lone wolf Kenkrik has made the scene only with one player who is known to draft crazy lists because he plays what he wants (and is awesome like that). He paired it with two alpha interceptors Aside from him though, it's like three-four chiraneaus and maybe a single oicuun.

Anyhow, Wes will still be useful. I'd rather face the lone wolf blank re-roll alone than have it fortified by a TL or focus. R3-A2 won't see much use in that match-up, however.

I have played E'athn against the 2 ship build, but I've found that he's about the only thing that can weather the phantom while his escort gets picked apart . By himself, he can't really tear down either ship in a timely manner and his escort isn't maneuverable enough to pin down the phantom. About the best I could do was VI Cracken, who covers the approach I find would be most devastating against me and tries to peg the phantom while de-cloaked and give E'athn a barrel-roll into a more advantageous position.

It's not easy with that list, though. I don't find phantoms to be a problem when I have at least one maneuverable ship in my squad from Jakes to Keyan to Boba (no EU needed) hell even Ties, but I play E'athn as more of an action stacking brick which limits his maneuverability.

I prefer my Wes paired with opportunist dudes, specially since with the stressbot, it comboes really well against PtL/EI ships, not to speak phantoms if you manage to get it.

Killing decimators is not that big of a deal. Killing Dash is another whole story in my experience.

Luke Skywalker (28)

Lone Wolf (2)

R2-D2 (4)

Wes Janson (29)

Veteran Instincts (1)

R3-A2 (2)

Wedge Antilles (29)

Opportunist (4)

R2 Astromech (1)

Total: 100

Good thing is that phantoms have to be really careful when engaging, something that can earn you plenty of time. It's also worth noting that Luke can go alone and just pewpew the decimator on his own, forcing the phantom to act.

Bad thing is that they are Xwing, and it's very risky, a good turn of the opponent and he manages to slip through, and you can say bye bye.

YT2400 lists, and Fat hans are the ones that gives me fits in the practice games. Swarms not so much if played right, specially because you can get enough damage through that lone wolf Luke will become impossible to kill, and Phantoms is a 50/50. It relies a lot on getting wedge to shoot at it before Wedge or Wes dies. If that happens, it's GG right there. If i end up against a decimator with Luke, is actually not so bad, he is kinda like Corran, but with less burst.

The list is not amazing, but it's the best i had come up for nowadays meta involving X's.

I am not a fan of opportunist's incredibly expensive costs (both in points and in stress) nor do I have much faith in any less than four small ships.

I have been wanting to slap down lone wolf + r2-d2 luke for a while, but he's more than likely going to have to find a list of his own.

I've run admiral Cheerios and echo quite often, and my common opponent prefers 4 ship rebel builds. The most effective thing he has ever hit me with has been 3 attack dice ships and Etahn. Those crits disable the decimator so fast it's funny, leaving a 35 point echo usually against 2-3 undamaged heavy hitters.

Do you remember his builds? I think I overload Eathn with too many upgrades to make him a killer sponge which doesn't leave much for the escort (but does out-slug a decimator one on one), which has traditionally been VI cracken and 3 bandits.

With List 3, if you are willing to give up the initiative bid, you can place R4-D6 on Biggs for more durability. Against Phantoms, HLCs and Expose/EI Decimators, they'll need at least three hits to clear him of the board.

You can perfectly fit 3 Rookies + PtL R2 Etan. The problem with the typical Etan Zwarm in current wave is the Z's lack the firepower to damage high agility ships reliabiliy.

Dunno how well it would fare against the phantom afterwards to be honest, i would have a hard time believing in them, High PS Xwings already have enough troubles moving after it, no matter how fast you manage to kill the decimator (most rebel 4 ship lists can kill a Engineless decimator in two turns crits or not), the problem is finishing the game with PS2 Xwings against a Phantom. I can understand why Echo would have a harder time due poor rolling every once in a while, but Whisper basically stack evade + focus everytime you get something to shoot at it.

If that decimator also has mara Jade (something i play, paired with rebel captive), it can give the phantom even more time to kill another ship before you start chasing it.

Edit: nm