So lore-wise the Phantoms were basically all destroyed. I think that batshit crazy admiral flew off with a few and went into hiding, so Thrawn could get stealth ships... But basically they all got wasted, right after production.

I know FFGs and us as gamers aren't bound by canon in video games.. But at the same time, any advice on how I can convince my incredibly well read GM on how I, a humble ex-imperial, turned best rebel pilot ever, could get one?

Its rarity 9, would you let your party cash in duty for an Imperial ship? I would probably make them cash it in to get a mission that could lead to them getting the ship.. But I'm curious what others think. The more opinions I hear, the better prepared I'll be to make the case to my GM.

And its not even for the cloaking device.. Its just very nicely balanced. Tho the cloaking device is of course amazing.

Thanks for the feedback

Lore's one of those things as a RPG GM you can use, throw in the bin or murder PC's with because of 'assumptions' that the lore is still correct as they out-of-character think, that's the way the galaxy spins.

Something like a cloaked fighter is basically a big MacGuffin that turns up and forms the part of an adventure, PC's will want to steal, destroy or feel threatened enough by its presence, to do something about it.

The other thing to consider is that the GM might not actually have an item or piece of equipment in the game, sure its in the books, but it might (for various reasons) not actually exist or appear in their timeline. Heck, maybe they just think it sucks and 'not in my game **** it!', which is their prerrogative.

Ask your GM if he can turn the acquisition into a very difficult and fun adventure or even mini campaign. So you won't be getting it for free (should you succeed at all).

Thrawn got his stealth tech from one of the emperors secret storehouses, in a book series written long before rebel assault 2. If its been tied together by someone that's relatively new lore.

Anyhoo... MKX is on it, its a campaign thing.

Some good story options include...

Rebel assault 2 featured a massive factory and hundreds of phantoms. Nothing to say a few dozen weren't already shipped out by the time rookie one got there.

The fighters got blowed up, but the plans specs and manufacturing requirements are still out there somewhere. After all it was a modified v38, so half of what you'd need is probably open market.

The emperor has a lot of secret storehouses. Raiding one might be fun. If you can find the the last command sourcebook a lot of the legwork will already be done for you.

If the players haven't played rebel assault 2 whose to say they aren't rookies one?

If I were the GM, I'd say that might be something to base an entire campaign around, rather than just something your character gets to start out with.

I don't know much about the Phantom in the EU but it's a very powerful ship with a high value and rarity, which seems to befit an extended adventure to infiltrate and capture it.

Perhaps you learn that a single Phantom has been located in a heavily-guarded Imperial installation. You might need to spend a session or two collecting intelligence on it, a session or two infiltrating the site and a session or two safely stealing the ship and escaping with it.

That kind of operation would probably be worth a lot of Duty and give you a boost in the Alliance, and it sounds like fun

Been told (rising envy here) by a buddy with the book that the phantom's apparently blinded by its cloaking system?

Stygium cloaks are not double-blind, that's Hybridium systems, which are impossible to fit on something as small as a starfighter.

Phantoms not only had sensor and comms access while cloaked, but the system automatically deactivated just long enough to fire weapons, allowing it to re-cloak almost instantly in battle rather than take the bloody turn. Perhaps worth some errata, if he's not just screwing with me 'bout the system.

I think a cloak that is not double blind would be over powered. So regardless of lore for the EU I think double blind is the only way to go for not being a munchkin tool.

Been told (rising envy here) by a buddy with the book that the phantom's apparently blinded by its cloaking system?

Stygium cloaks are not double-blind, that's Hybridium systems, which are impossible to fit on something as small as a starfighter.

That's not exactly what the book says. Basically, the fighter is prohibited from using active sensors and comms while cloaked, which makes sense: not because the stygium crystals are incompatible with sensors and communications equipment, but because using emitters is a very un-stealthy thing to do. Passive sensors still work while cloaked.

Activating the cloaking device is an action. Deactivating it is a maneuver. There's nothing mechanical preventing a TIE Phantom from detecting, decloaking, and destroying in the same round.

I think a cloak that is not double blind would be over powered. So regardless of lore for the EU I think double blind is the only way to go for not being a munchkin tool.

How would a craft that's largely a plot device, intended for use by NPCs, and so rare as to only exist by GM fiat be "overpowered" or "a munchkin tool?" This isn't D&D.

An ex-Imperial?

Well then how about this:

He actually is a Phantom pilot. During one of his stealthy missions he witnessed the full horror of the Empire. Perhaps a beaten and defenceless population being mercilessly bombarded from orbit, unarmed men, women and children dying just to "send a message to anyone else wanting to be independent".

So he defected to the Rebellion taking the Phantom with him.

Why does that sound like a Star Wars version of Airwolf?

Yoshiyahu, I agree if it is being used as a plot device by the GM. The thing is no one on this thread is talking about it being used by a GM as a plot device they are all talking about using it as a PC.

As to the point of this not being D&D you are correct, however munchkins exist in all games. Don't believe me? Do a forum search for marauder and soak or jury rig and auto fire. I am certain there are others but these are the ones I know of off the top of my head.

PS - I have rewritten this a couple times attempting to have a non confrontational tone.

Yoshiyahu, I agree if it is being used as a plot device by the GM. The thing is no one on this thread is talking about it being used by a GM as a plot device they are all talking about using it as a PC.

As to the point of this not being D&D you are correct, however munchkins exist in all games. Don't believe me? Do a forum search for marauder and soak or jury rig and auto fire. I am certain there are others but these are the ones I know of off the top of my head.

PS - I have rewritten this a couple times attempting to have a non confrontational tone.

I appreciate that you're taking the effort to not come across as confrontational. If I did in my original post to you, I apologize because that wasn't my intent.

While I certainly understand the argument that a particular vehicle, piece of gear, or equipment could be too powerful in the hands of a PC, I think that most of those issues can be avoided by simply not placing those things within easy reach of the players. In the case of the TIE Phantom, I don't think it's a craft that's really meant to be used by the player characters. If it ever does, it makes sense that it would be part of a major plot point. The acquisition of a TIE Phantom by a PC should be the culmination of a campaign or arc, not something that a PC starts with or something they bump into on a random encounter table.

It's a similar argument to the idea that a lightsaber (EotE/AoR version) or a "lore accurate" TIE Defender are too powerful or "munchkin" items, when most of those problems can adroitly be avoided by intelligent GMing.

I agree, there are power-gamers in every game. My reference to D&D wasn't about that, however, so much as it was about the "Magic Item Economy" that was so prevalent in 3.x and 4th Edition. In Age of Rebellion, your characters can't just walk into Ye Olde Rarity 9+ Shoppe and buy themselves a +5 McGuffin. Rewards are either earned through the accumulation of Duty, looted off the corpses of vanquished enemies, or acquired through the plot. All three of those things are ultimately at the discretion of the GM, and as a result, I don't think it makes much sense to say that an item is "too powerful" when that item is specifically called out as being rare, unusual, and/or secret.

No matter how much a munchkin player wants a TIE Phantom, that character probably doesn't even know it exists.

I hope I'm doing a decent job of articulating what I'm trying to say, and like you, I don't want to be perceived as being confrontational in this discussion.

I'd allow it as a reward for a very difficult and long campaign. But remember, the Empire shouldn't take kindly to their experimental super fighters being stolen by the Rebellion. In the Legends canon, they deployed Grand Admiral Thrawn (the best officer of his generation) to prevent further TIE Defender proliferation. When the Rebels briefly acquired a copy of the even more dangerous Missile Boat, they sent in Vader himself. Even risking the chance that the Rebels, who depend on hit and run attacks, might reverse engineer the cloak would unacceptable. The poor PC should be faced with near constant attempts by the Empire to recapture/destroy the Phantom, with the best the Empire has to offer being given the job.

At the same time, nerfing them down "just in case" while keeping the rarity/pricetag(if any) the same seems highly dishonest. Like if at that culmination of an arc/campaign the lightsaber you finally obtain at great risk deals training-saber damage and for some reason can't deflect blasters, "because well what if it got used on NPCs to dismember everything it would be way too powerful".

Phantoms, TIE/Ds and Missile Boats are just the starfighter equivalent of finally getting that Barab Ingot for your saber: If one means it's time to stop dealing with dark padawans and sith-dressed wannabes and actually take on some lords, the other just means it's time to let those 40 advanced concussions do their job against your new rivals: Nebulon-B overly-heavy-starfighters and their headhunter 'missile' launchers.

Speaking of, is there any way to get those concussions firing at other missiles or torpedoes in case you need to defend against some bomber wings?

Speaking of, is there any way to get those concussions firing at other missiles or torpedoes in case you need to defend against some bomber wings?

Well, by RAW, only if they miss their original attack and trigger the Guided quality. Then you could attack their missiles before they gain a new chance to attack.

This is however a scene I tend to use a lot. The PCs get attacked by their enemies and get fired by some big bad missile which I treat like a chase instead of a regular attack. I usually have the missile start of at short range with a speed one more then their max speed and an initiative slot just after the PCs so they get some chance to both fly away from the missile and get off a few shots at it. (Though I use this for some epic scenes, in the middle of space combat i usually just use regular attacks.)

Edit: Perhaps i misinterpreted your question?

No, the first sentence answered it.

I was asking due to remembering some of the interception duties in TIE Fighter. Intercepting missiles with more missiles was a delightfully decadent affair.

Why does that sound like a Star Wars version of Airwolf?

Actually it sounds like a real world incident that happened on September 6th, 1976. On that day, Soviet Air Force Lieutenant Viktor Belenko defected to Hakodate, Japan in his MiG-25 jet fighter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Belenko

Why does that sound like a Star Wars version of Airwolf?

Actually it sounds like a real world incident that happened on September 6th, 1976. On that day, Soviet Air Force Lieutenant Viktor Belenko defected to Hakodate, Japan in his MiG-25 jet fighter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Belenko

Of course, Lieutenant Belenko never flew a MiG-25 again.

Defecting from the Empire with cool gear might make for an awesome character backstory, or even a great first session. That being said, I seriously doubt that anyone flying a TIE Phantom is a starting XP character, and I doubt even more that said character would be allowed to keep (or even fly) a craft as rare and valuable to the Alliance as a TIE Phantom.

Yeah, there's a good chance that the Alliance would take the craft and try to reverse engineer the cloak for more general use, rather than risking their only model in combat.

Extremely likely, and quite wise.

The pilot may be able to negotiate himself a fine rebel craft to return to duties on his new side, but the phantom, or at the very least the entire cloaking system, would certainly be out of his hands.

Wow! Lots of great replies! Thanks for the feedback.

I admit, I posted this thread immediately after reading the new book. I was chomping at the bit for the coolest ship for my PC. When I saw the Phantom I was a bit overcome. After a couple days I put my "GM hat" on and realized it wasn't something I would easily give PCs in a game I ran.

I can rock out an A-Wing with less of a sale to my GM. We've been playing for a couple-few months now, and our next Duty turn in will allow us to get rarity 6 ships. Even if he allowed it, I wouldn't want to wait for 3 more turn-ins to get outta this Y-Wing. (My more ground focused fellow players have said I will get ONE turn in for a nicer ship)

Though "Ghostofman" brought up a good point. Its just a modified V38. I wonder how similar the stats are. I meant it, when I said, I wasn't reaally trying to get a cloak. Its just a nicely balanced shipt. Its got some wicked firepower, but no missles.. so I don't think that'd be too much to ask for. I'm just gonna see if I can dig up some canon stats; and if not, I'll homebrew a "Stock" V38 and see if can get the rarity dropped to a more reasonable level.

Once again, thanks for all the feedback. Will let ya know what I come up with and how it turns out. If anyone has ideas for a "stock" V38 lemme know!

No canon stats for the stock V38, but from what I've read, its inferior in every regard. The Phantom was HEAVILY modified. The base V38, had less armor, less manueverability, and less guns.

Just gonna spec Rigger and make and be an A-Wing pilot. An amazing combo those 2. My fellow PCs already have enough concerns about the enemy turned ally. If I'm flying around in a fancy stealth ship that looks Imperial, it'll just add fuel to their distrust. An A-Wing will help me "look the part", especially if I want to infiltrate far enough in the Rebellion to reveal the locatiom of Echo base to Darth Vader :-P j/k... or AM i?

Yah I was disappointed that the stock V38 wasn't included in Stay on Target

No canon stats for the stock V38, but from what I've read, its inferior in every regard. The Phantom was HEAVILY modified. The base V38, had less armor, less manueverability, and less guns.

V38's are a very good escort/superiority fighter really, they're as fast as an Interceptor, 3 linked laser cannons, slightly tougher and can be upgraded with launchers, shields, heavy shields and a hyperdrive that just bolt in depending on how you want to tailor them.

Where did your info on the V38s come from? I don't recall finding anything on them other then the fact the TIE Phantom was based on the V38.