Perhaps this was brought up before(at the airport, no time for 8 pages of what you think) but all kidding aside(I'll read it when I'm home) the problem I see in TIEfighter's excellent article(if I may call it that) is that where would we buy the rogue squadorn card? I agree with TIEFighter's thoughts but enough players ***** and moan about having to buy the transport or the corvette to get what they "need." Where should ffg apply this?

I want to make clear that I think this the best idea I've read.

Paul Heaver is quoted with something like this, "It's sad that people don't use unique pilots enough." We should see all the moves away from generics as a function of the designers' sympathy with this statement. Maybe we should let go of the past? Maybe rookies are the future?

The name doesn't do much for me, and I think rookies should die out.

Long live unique pilots: long live pilot skill choices.

The question to me is: what lets the X-Wing have a unique and interesting survival or mobility mechanic? A 2 point title that adds boost would fix the X-Wing's issue, but... Not interestingly.

Maybe something like:

title: Making Do

(X-Wing only, 2 points)

Add one modification and reduce its cost to 0 points)

I thibk this is a tad boring (and intrudes a bit on the Tie Interceptor), but does provide a few interesting options- and a slight price break. I'm not thrilled about it, but I think it's the dirction to think in.

I don't think the X-Wing being more mobile will fix the problems it faces, such as finding a place for it in someone's 100 points. I feel like making the X-Wing more mobile through an S-Foil upgrade granting it a costly or situational boost option would be too complicated and outright silly. Barrel rolling an X-Wing just doesn't sound right, the structural design of the ship seems like it wouldnt allow that, unless the pilot has Expert Handling, in which case a skilled pilot can roll a Decimator.

The biggest strength of the X-Wing has always been its unique pilots abilities and cost effectiveness. If we could get more synergistic pilot ability options on the table, including a PS5-6 generic with an EPT, people may be more willing to take the X-Wing into combat. There are plenty of characters in the EU that can be thrown into an X-Wing which lends more reign for design space to come up with unique abilities that may be created to address the meta, or at least update the X-Wing so they won't sit on the shelf.

Honestly, an X-Wing with Corran Horn's ability (maybe even just Corran in an X-Wing) would be more cost effective for that kind of ability on a downgraded ship. Or, a pilot with a built in C-3PO effect that the number guessed can't be zero (although, they'd just guess 1 and still get an evade, so maybe not), or a reverse Biggs or a pilot that increases the agility of other X-Wings at range 1. Honestly, the fix is within the pilots itself because the physical stats and dial of the X-Wing is just fine.

I don't understand. You say at the beginning that the X-Wing has difficulties finding a way into the 100 points (being cost ineffective?). But then you say that its strength lies in its cost effectiveness.

By the way, you can barrel roll an E-Wing, but not an X-Wing because of structural design? And a Tie Bomber where the pilot rotates around with one half of the ship being an asymmetric design? Does that work for you? That's ridiculous. I could show you a few examples right out of the movies where they roll their X-Wings! Also i would prefer boost to keep things interesting anyway.

And trust me on this one. We will see Rogue squadron at some point. It will be PS6 and it will have an EPT. I wonder why they didnt bring it with the Transport already.

The only possibility why we would not get Rogue squadron would be because they plan to bring every individual pilot of it

But they will not be the solution. You see Royal Guards? They are fine, but they are not played that much really. And Rogues would open up new options, but they would not exactly be a buff to he X-Wing. Without a repositioning tool like boost or barrel roll, Pilot skill is literally only there to determine who shoots first. And we have enough good pilots in X.Wings above PS6 to do that. The pilot talents on the named X-Wings are fine. But a ship that only has its dial is just not enough anymore especially if its not tanky or has other special attributes.

And the phrase "the fix is in the pilots itself" does not make sense. If they give us one or Two Pilots that are absolutely OP, then all that happens is they become mandatory and all the rest of the pilots sees no use. That would be the saddest thing ever. Same reasoning against an Astromech fix.

I really hope they give us a reduction on a slot open to the ship. We can't expect them to open up a new one like for the Advanced. So it could either be Astromech or Modifications. Personally i would much prefer modifications with a reduction of 2 points. Then give the X-Wing 1-2 really good unique modifications unique to them (like S-Foils would be ).

That would go miles for the ship, because:

- It would now be decently priced and balanced with a reduction on mods.

- They would not have to change dials, cards, stats or whatever.

- It would also be perfectly in line with what they did to the Advanced.

- They don't destroy diversity of preexisting pilots or Astromechs, can add new ones (like Rogues) with no difficulty afterwards because they benefit just as much as the old ones.

- You get no autoincludes, but powerful option diversity

- The ship gets a movement option or two, which it so utterly desperately needs, but is not mandatory.

- It's not a boring, flat cost reduction and you still cant field 5 on 100 points (for the Imperials that would cry otherwise )

I feel that's the way FFG will go. I will be thankful for anything, they are great game designers, and they surprise us all the time in a positive way. Perhaps they will just come up with something unconventional again. But if they stick with what we can see now, i feel it's gonna be a mod cost reduction at least, with maybe a unique X-Wing mod.

Adding diversity to the X-wing can be done through current available upgrade-slots (astromech, modification) or add something new. A cost-reduction won't. A reduction of a, let's say, the cost of an astromech by 1, adds a little. Give it both?

Reduce astromech cost by 1, X-wing only, make it a modification, something like improved astromech socket or something.

Add more mechs and pilots. (Yes, together with a green X-wing!!!!)

A second modification, 0 points, x-wing only, allowing to use salvaged astromechs.

Creating a whole different way of flying and loading up your X-wing!

Add a title: Rogue squadron pilot: X-Wing only, PS4 or higher, add barrel roll to action bar for 4 points.

So to speculate for wave 7 ;-)

- 1 a green X-Wing with X-wing only mods/ titles, Corran, Whistler, R2

- 1 TIE Bomber with hite stripes, Mod/title bomber only, reducing cost for ordnance by 1

- 1 Rixhyrk or Kihraxz fighter, with illicit upgrades such as dead man switch

- 1 TIE Aggressor, with crew and rear-firing arc.

;-P

Adding diversity to the X-wing can be done through current available upgrade-slots (astromech, modification) or add something new. A cost-reduction won't. A reduction of a, let's say, the cost of an astromech by 1, adds a little. Give it both?

Reduce astromech cost by 1, X-wing only, make it a modification, something like improved astromech socket or something.

Add more mechs and pilots. (Yes, together with a green X-wing!!!!)

A second modification, 0 points, x-wing only, allowing to use salvaged astromechs.

Creating a whole different way of flying and loading up your X-wing!

Add a title: Rogue squadron pilot: X-Wing only, PS4 or higher, add barrel roll to action bar for 4 points.

So to speculate for wave 7 ;-)

- 1 a green X-Wing with X-wing only mods/ titles, Corran, Whistler, R2

- 1 TIE Bomber with hite stripes, Mod/title bomber only, reducing cost for ordnance by 1

- 1 Rixhyrk or Kihraxz fighter, with illicit upgrades such as dead man switch

- 1 TIE Aggressor, with crew and rear-firing arc.

;-P

That's two ships called Aggressor, though. I'd bet either Clawcraft or one of the oddballs (I-7 Howlrunner, A-9 Vigilance).

But then everyone will ask why Howlrunner is not howlrunning on a Howlrunner

I don't understand. You say at the beginning that the X-Wing has difficulties finding a way into the 100 points (being cost ineffective?). But then you say that its strength lies in its cost effectiveness.

By the way, you can barrel roll an E-Wing, but not an X-Wing because of structural design? And a Tie Bomber where the pilot rotates around with one half of the ship being an asymmetric design? Does that work for you? That's ridiculous. I could show you a few examples right out of the movies where they roll their X-Wings! Also i would prefer boost to keep things interesting anyway.

And trust me on this one. We will see Rogue squadron at some point. It will be PS6 and it will have an EPT. I wonder why they didnt bring it with the Transport already.

The only possibility why we would not get Rogue squadron would be because they plan to bring every individual pilot of it

But they will not be the solution. You see Royal Guards? They are fine, but they are not played that much really. And Rogues would open up new options, but they would not exactly be a buff to he X-Wing. Without a repositioning tool like boost or barrel roll, Pilot skill is literally only there to determine who shoots first. And we have enough good pilots in X.Wings above PS6 to do that. The pilot talents on the named X-Wings are fine. But a ship that only has its dial is just not enough anymore especially if its not tanky or has other special attributes.

And the phrase "the fix is in the pilots itself" does not make sense. If they give us one or Two Pilots that are absolutely OP, then all that happens is they become mandatory and all the rest of the pilots sees no use. That would be the saddest thing ever. Same reasoning against an Astromech fix.

I really hope they give us a reduction on a slot open to the ship. We can't expect them to open up a new one like for the Advanced. So it could either be Astromech or Modifications. Personally i would much prefer modifications with a reduction of 2 points. Then give the X-Wing 1-2 really good unique modifications unique to them (like S-Foils would be ).

That would go miles for the ship, because:

- It would now be decently priced and balanced with a reduction on mods.

- They would not have to change dials, cards, stats or whatever.

- It would also be perfectly in line with what they did to the Advanced.

- They don't destroy diversity of preexisting pilots or Astromechs, can add new ones (like Rogues) with no difficulty afterwards because they benefit just as much as the old ones.

- You get no autoincludes, but powerful option diversity

- The ship gets a movement option or two, which it so utterly desperately needs, but is not mandatory.

- It's not a boring, flat cost reduction and you still cant field 5 on 100 points (for the Imperials that would cry otherwise )

I feel that's the way FFG will go. I will be thankful for anything, they are great game designers, and they surprise us all the time in a positive way. Perhaps they will just come up with something unconventional again. But if they stick with what we can see now, i feel it's gonna be a mod cost reduction at least, with maybe a unique X-Wing mod.

When I said "fitting into people's 100" I meant people are reluctant to put an X-Wing in their list, not because of cost ineffectiveness, but because there are better, more consistent options out there. Those were poor words on my part.

As for the whole barrel roll/boost thing. No. There are already ways through Engine Upgrade and EPTs (and even Astromechs) that allow it to happen on an X-Wing. It doesn't need any more movement than it already has on its stock action bar.

The E-Wing would be capable of diverting or cutting power to one engine over another allowing it to barrel roll. The panels (for whatever reason) on TIEs are known to give them their razor sharp agility and maneuverability, even on a bomber. The X-Wings rolling in the movies are moreso adjusting their craft in a slow and cumbersome roll fashion, not out right barrel rolling as a means of evasion or combat maneuvering. It just doesn't fit well with a four-wing, four-engine design meant for longetivity and resiliency for multi-role combat functions.

I say that pilots will fix the X-Wing because the X-Wing is the most well-rounded ship in the game. 3/2/2/3 is extremely cost effective for 21 points at the lowest base. But people want variety, as we've seen with the B-Wing and Keyan Farlander/Nera Dantels. They offered players wanting to fly that ship options with new synergistic strategies through its dial (Key) and ordnance (Nera). Sure, it came with /E2 mod for tricks and different strategies, but the more effective way of nudging the B-Wing out of the monotonous choices of Daggers and Blues was by giving them options through new pilots.

Which was my point on my first post on the first page of the thread, offering "options" rather than outright fixes. If we had pilots that were synergistic with other ships at range 1, or even pilots that synergize exclusively among other X-Wings, we may see more X-Wings on the table. Which is why people like to advocate for a generic X pilot with an EPT. An EPT on a generic pilot will grant more "options" through EPT selection to players at an efficient price rather than outright reducing costs or derping on another action to the X-Wing's action bar for a ridiculously low to no price in order to make it competitive. Then we'd have the problem of everything being over-priced and FFG being pressured to try to rebalance the game through more points reductions.

@ Spike

I will keep it short this time.

I would like to see boost rather than roll on X-Wings. But you can barrel roll litterally any WWII warplane even down here in athmosphere but the heaviest of Bombers. The X-Wing is a very maneuvrable high powered fighter design and in space we could probably even roll a Star Destroyer if it had sufficient thrusters. All fighters in X-Wing should probably be able to, but that's another story.

Concerning the rest. No the X-Wing is not cost efficient, it also has none of that "longevity" you speak of and yes, it does need a reduction of 1-2 points, probably by means of a discount on mods or astros. I mean if you speak of cost efficiency, we are in MJ's territory and he says it's 1-2 points too expensive. Also seen from an anecdotical viewpoint many players would agree to that.

FFG has already begun repricing and fixing things or did you not notice Chardaan and the very good Advanced fix? X-wing is next man, thats for sure! And it deserves it!

Someone somewhere along these lengthy pages suggested more synergy between X-Wings due to advanced targeting computers and data sharing.

THAT I liked.

Imagine a rule that an X-Wing can re-roll one of his attack dice if there is a red target lock on the ship he is shooting at.

(or something along those lines)

Ah well. We'll see what (if!) FFG can come up with.

For it is a bit of a shame that the ship the game was named after sees far less action in tournaments nowadays. (IMO)

If we want the X-Wing to be more varied and cost-effective, then what about this title....

Rogue Squadron

Title - X-Wing only

0 Points

"When choosing either a Torpedo or Astromech upgrade, reduce the cost of one of the chosen upgrades by 2 (to a minimum of 0). If your Pilot skill is 4 or higher, you can reduce the cost of both upgrades by 2."

As a regular user of X-Wings, I'm enjoying all these ideas being bandied around to buff my favourite ship.

As a regular user of X-Wings, I don't actually think they're necessary of course, but I like them.

Look at the cost of X-Wings and Z-95s. Now consider the fact that X is nearly as easy to destroy as Z-95 (X has only one more hull). Unique R2D2 isn't game changer at all. R2F2 needs action, it kills attack. Except Tarn Mison with R7 Astro, X is simply weak. I suggest +1 hull upgrade title for 0 or 1 pt

Look at the cost of X-Wings and Z-95s. Now consider the fact that X is nearly as easy to destroy as Z-95 (X has only one more hull). Unique R2D2 isn't game changer at all. R2F2 needs action, it kills attack. Except Tarn Mison with R7 Astro, X is simply weak. I suggest +1 hull upgrade title for 0 or 1 pt

Ignoring the counter argument that the Z-95 could well be under -costed (compare it to the equally-costed TIE Fighter, for a start), let's look at what you're proposing here.

The X-Wing already has +1 hull over a Z-95 (equivalent to a Hull Upgrade, which costs 3 points, but actually worth more as it doesn't take up the valuable modification slot so let's say 4 points). It also has an Astromech slot (which, despite your apparent reservations is still VERY useful, but as your sceptical let's ignore it for now) and +1 attack , which is worth... well, what, exactly? If it's worth at least 5 points then the X-Wing is on par with the Z-95. If it's worth more than 3 points then your proposed "fix" (+1 hull for 0 or 1 point) is itself FAR too cheaply costed (as we've already established that a "standard" hull upgrade which takes up the modification slot is itself worth 3).

Back to the drawing board, maybe?

If you compare the Z95 to a Tie fighter, it is only roughly undercosted, due to PS mostly.

You can't also talk about going from 2 to 3 hull points in a vacuum for a few reasons:

- First, they already have two shields, so it's more a 4 to 5 "hull" points upgrade.

- Game designers can put different values for those extra hull points depending on the ship on the pilot cards, but they can't do that for hull upgrade and different ships due to its fixed cost It is not the same from a point cost efficiency to put a hull upgrade on a Tie fighter, than on a Decimator or a defender, for example.

- The 2 to 3 dice can't be compared to opportunist, since it is something that 3 attack dice (even 4 attack dice) have access for, and only through an EPT slot, so it has a higher cost plus the drawback than a 2 to 3 attack dice upgrade would come for, if we value them correctly.

I do agree with your astromech point, for scalability purposes, but i am fairly certain that they are quite cheap (like 1 point), we could also make the counter point that missiles slot on cheap disposable ships with default 2 attack dice are actually more helpful than torpedos on already expensive 3 attack dice ships but let's not go in there.

Paying for Boost on an X-wing reminds me of all the A wing upgrades that everyone loves to act happy about despite the fact that it completely failed to get the ship into high level play - it's a cute idea but wouldn't change the reason you're not taking the ship in the first place. A cost reduction would really only get you the 5 rookies list - you would be able to squeeze a couple more upgrades into some of the 4 ship rebel lists but you would still get push in the trash can by a Phantom, so again you haven't impacted the reason people aren't taking the ship in the first place.

The way the X B E and A Wings are set up creates a lot of issues because they aren't really differentiated well enough to avoid some sort of overlap if you make many changes. The Y-wing's turret at least gives it the option of being a slightly different ship most of the time.

You can't get an X wing maneuverable enough to actually matter with simple upgrades and making it more durable really just makes it a B-Wing with a different dial. I think the ship needs more damage - another attack die would give all the X-Wing pilots a strength (Big Scary Damage) and keep it's weakness (maneuverability) and we can all just accept that in the canon the X-Wing was maybe a little more nimble. You can make it a title, cheap astromech, title that makes the damage astromech cheap, whatever.

Beyond that, ships need to be designed with more differences. Ships could disrupt other pilot cards, or alpha strike better than other ships, etc. There is not enough design space for 4 - 5 ships that do kinda the same thing for around 20-30 points.

As a regular user of X-Wings, I'm enjoying all these ideas being bandied around to buff my favourite ship.

As a regular user of X-Wings, I don't actually think they're necessary of course, but I like them.

This is how I feel as well. I use X-wings a lot and while it would be cool to get something like a cost reduction/focus granting astro/barrel roll/boost/free hull, I don't think it is absolutely necessary. New astromechs are always cool, as are new EPTs, so as more ships are released or re released with an alt paint scheme these will no doubt come in time.

Isn't "Calc..."from the Starviper expac still unspoilt?

For all we know it could possibly be very beneficial to the X-Wing via R2-D6 for the Reds or the ones with natural EPTs.

If missiles were more consistent, you'd be able to have a VI/PTL Tycho as a dedicated Phantom hunter. That would free the X-Wing to fill its role as a front line bruiser that wades deep into combat and takes out the "filler" ships on the other side.

Alternately, if going up against a Fat Han style super tank, having the ability to consistently have a large punch (via 1-shot munitions) would again free up the X-Wing to be a space superiority fighter.

Right now, the game is calling for both hypermobility and consistent damage. The X-Wing can do quite well at the damage, but is kinda terrible at mobility. Compounding the problem: the better the X-Wing gets at damage, the more of a target it becomes, which exposes its lack of tankiness.

I'm not saying it's crappy or anything, I'm just pointing out that there are better options for every role you'd want an X-Wing fill. That's not the worst problem, but it's _a_ problem.

Thinking about it, maybe a solution would be a (cheep) title that gives an evade token every time the X-Wing is hit. Unique and adds tankiness.

If you don't want to see X-Wings get a buff, then you will be disappointed, because the game's designers have already publicly stated that generic X-Wings are underpowered and they are working on a buff similar to the A-Wing and TIE Advanced.

What about a new mechanic to represent the training and teamwork that rogue squadron was known for, instead of tapping into existing upgrades

Rogue Squadron Pilot

PS 6 25pt, no EPT

"If there is another friendly X-Wing on the board, give each friendly x-wing a focus token at the start of the combat phase (stackable)"

The x-wing was the workhorse of the alliance before during and after the war not because it was the most powerful (B-wing), or toughest (Y-wing), or most manouvrable (A-Wing). Its because it was in bang smack in the middle of that ven diagram that it became the ubiquitous symbol of the rebellion.

It doesn't need a boost or barrel roll or tanking or 5 attack dice, it needs something to represent that it was at the core of any attack force. Its the reason rogue squadron mainly flew it over other more specialized platforms; as a symbol to the every day x-wing pilot to aspire to.

To that effect, I believe this should be represented by rewarding lists that are built around a core of x-wings.

Now granting extra focus may not be the solution, but it was my first stab down this train of thought. Another could be

Rogue Squadron Pilot

PS 6 25pt, EPT

"If there is another friendly X-Wing on the board, increase its Pilot Skill by 1 for the duration of the game"

This mechanic aĺlows both lower tier pilots to benifit from the experience of their rogue squadron mentor. Conversely, if you field 2 rogues, you get 2 PS7 generics with EPTs,which shows the training and tactics that the rogues used to become the most elite squadron in the galaxy.

I think this is a far more appropriate "fix" to the jack-of-all-trades workhorse of the alliance

If you don't want to see X-Wings get a buff, then you will be disappointed, because the game's designers have already publicly stated that generic X-Wings are underpowered and they are working on a buff similar to the A-Wing and TIE Advanced.

Apart from that, I think the big problem here is the Phantom is clearly undercosted and this has shaked all the metagame, It has the highest and unpredictable mobility in the game... and also 4 attack dice, wich in my opinion is too much, 3 dice would be the normal thing.

How about this:

---------------------------------

Rogue Squadron Pilot
PS 6 25pt, EPT

---------------------------------

+

---------------------------------

Rogue Squadron Training

X-Wing only, Title

"When you equip a

[Elite Pilot Talent], its squad

point cost is reduced by 2

(to a minimum of 0) "

----------------------------------

You could go with 4 Rouges + Expert Handling ... which would be terrible for 4 x Tempest equipped with ATC ^^

Even a single Rookie, Red or unique pilot without EPT could profit from this title, since it isn't PS-restricted.

The way the X B E and A Wings are set up creates a lot of issues because they aren't really differentiated well enough to avoid some sort of overlap if you make many changes.

Just so I'm a little more clear. I do think it wouldn't hurt to see them fill the role of a middle ground less specialize (B, Y, A) fighter. That could be nice to have a differentiated group of craft. The right tool for the right job. But (he says as he gets upon his soap box) making everything balanced is, in my limited opinion, the exact opposite of distinction/differentiation. If everything is balanced everything is the same.

How do you redefine an existing X-Wing to fit into the rebel mold yet distinguish itself from other fighters (I"m looking at you B-Wing) without trying to fix every existing ship repeatedly? Can we just remove the sensor slot from the B-Wing?

But (he says as he gets upon his soap box) making everything balanced is, in my limited opinion, the exact opposite of distinction/differentiation. If everything is balanced everything is the same.

By this logic, the way to differentiate the X-wing is to give it +6 attack.

Balancing is making ships equally effective when used properly relative to their point cost. The Z-95 and the B-wing are both balanced ships, and they're also very different.

If you don't want to see X-Wings get a buff, then you will be disappointed, because the game's designers have already publicly stated that generic X-Wings are underpowered and they are working on a buff similar to the A-Wing and TIE Advanced.

I don't particularly want to see the X-Wings get a(nother) buff, but trust me, I'll be far from disappointed if they do.