On the matter of the S-foil upgrade, there are plenty of other lore rationalisations that could work for it. Flapping S-foils is a pretty silly image but the X-wing did have a variable power grid that could shunt power around the ship on the pilot's command, to the shields, engines or weapons.

That upgrade might, just might, make a torpedo a viable option. Especially APT.

Instead of reducing the attack of the primary weapon, make it "spend a focus token", so affects the attack, but doesn't cripple you.

I do, nevertheless, favor the generic Rogue Squadron Pilot PS 5-6 with EPT, and some kind of unique title "Rogue Squadron Leader" for, like, 2 points.

Rogue Squadron Leader

PS 7+

When you declare a target of an attack, you can delay the attack itself until some other lower skill pilot attacks the same target. If you do, both ships shoot at the same time, and the defender only rolls his normal defense dice once against both. If there is no other pilot shooting that target, you lose the attack this round.

"Wait for it... wait for it... Shoot now!"

On the matter of the S-foil upgrade, there are plenty of other lore rationalisations that could work for it. Flapping S-foils is a pretty silly image but the X-wing did have a variable power grid that could shunt power around the ship on the pilot's command, to the shields, engines or weapons.

That upgrade might, just might, make a torpedo a viable option. Especially APT.

Instead of reducing the attack of the primary weapon, make it "spend a focus token", so affects the attack, but doesn't cripple you.

I do, nevertheless, favor the generic Rogue Squadron Pilot PS 5-6 with EPT, and some kind of unique title "Rogue Squadron Leader" for, like, 2 points.

Rogue Squadron Leader

PS 7+

When you declare a target of an attack, you can delay the attack itself until some other lower skill pilot attacks the same target. If you do, both ships shoot at the same time, and the defender only rolls his normal defense dice once against both. If there is no other pilot shooting that target, you lose the attack this round.

"Wait for it... wait for it... Shoot now!"

A simultaneous attack would be crazy ridiculous. Throwing something like that on Wedge would just completely annihilate anything.

Yay! Exactly.

I'm imperial, btw.

I think no one will be happy until the X-Wing is, cheaper, faster, more maneuverable, with more attack dice, agility and hull than a TIE everything.

Just a thought.

What about a reinforce option for the X-Wing? In the movies they talk about "switch all power to front deflector shields"

So an action or even just a upgrade that lets you have a free evade result vs all attacks that are in the X-Wings arc.

Something like Front Deflector Shields: "If the attacker is in the defenders arc, the defender gets one free <evade> token."

This would be completely broken.

FFG finally came up with an excellent solution for the Tie Advanced.

Now its up to the player if you want to never lose your action or avoid bumping by perfprming a BR before revealing the dial (AS) , improved firepower (ATC, AC) or even different options like ps0 blockers ... there is no real auto-include upgrade card, even it is very likely that you might use the ATC. But you can't have it all.

For the X-Wings Some players want to add mobility, others survivability.

I'm sure FFG will come up with a perfect solution to maximize the happiness of rebel players when the time is right

But then we could apply a similar solution with the X-Wing.

You just take my version of S-Foils:

Improved S-Foils.

Modification. X-Wing only.

3 Points

Immediately before revealing your maneuver dial each turn, you may choose to close S-Foils.

If you do so, you must interchange the X-Wings agility value and attack value until the end of the end phase. If you do so, you may execute a free boost action after completing your maneuver this turn.

And then you make a Title Card:

T-65B X-Wing (Could also be named Rogue squadron X-Wing if you like this better)

Title. X-Wing only.

0 Points

Modifications for this ship cost -2 points, to a minimum of 0 points.

That way we have a discount of two points on an X-Wing only modification that is string enough to cost 3 points or 1 point with title. But the X-Wing could also equip any other modification at a discount! Much like the advanced does with systems upgrades!

On the matter of the S-foil upgrade, there are plenty of other lore rationalisations that could work for it. Flapping S-foils is a pretty silly image but the X-wing did have a variable power grid that could shunt power around the ship on the pilot's command, to the shields, engines or weapons.

That upgrade might, just might, make a torpedo a viable option. Especially APT.

Instead of reducing the attack of the primary weapon, make it "spend a focus token", so affects the attack, but doesn't cripple you.

Spending a focus token when revealing your maneuver dial is a bit difficult.

I think no one will be happy until the X-Wing is, cheaper, faster, more maneuverable, with more attack dice, agility and hull than a TIE everything.

We are now looking at a Tie Advanced that is better in literally anything than an X-Wing and most people (including myself) applaud it and say that this is most welcome. I play both factions regularly.

Anyway i find that anyone can say that he is either an Imperial or Rebel player, or both. But this envy or even, like in your case, fear that anything of the other faction will get a buff, how well-deserved it might be, is in my eyes just childish!

Now this is just nonsense.

It's also a classic strawman. No one is suggesting anything even close to that. Most are in fact saying the X-Wing needs to be either 1-2 points better or 1-2 points cheaper.

Now this is just nonsense.

It's also a classic strawman. No one is suggesting anything even close to that. Most are in fact saying the X-Wing needs to be either 1-2 points better or 1-2 points cheaper.

On the matter of the S-foil upgrade, there are plenty of other lore rationalisations that could work for it. Flapping S-foils is a pretty silly image but the X-wing did have a variable power grid that could shunt power around the ship on the pilot's command, to the shields, engines or weapons.

That upgrade might, just might, make a torpedo a viable option. Especially APT.

Instead of reducing the attack of the primary weapon, make it "spend a focus token", so affects the attack, but doesn't cripple you.

Spending a focus token when revealing your maneuver dial is a bit difficult.

Maybe you're not trying hard enough xD

Jokes aside, just wanted to give the Xwing a boost for free, but not allowing PTL, should read something like: When you reveal your dial, you can perform boost action. If you do, skip your action phase.

On the matter of the S-foil upgrade, there are plenty of other lore rationalisations that could work for it. Flapping S-foils is a pretty silly image but the X-wing did have a variable power grid that could shunt power around the ship on the pilot's command, to the shields, engines or weapons.

That upgrade might, just might, make a torpedo a viable option. Especially APT.

Instead of reducing the attack of the primary weapon, make it "spend a focus token", so affects the attack, but doesn't cripple you.

Spending a focus token when revealing your maneuver dial is a bit difficult.

Maybe you're not trying hard enough xD

Jokes aside, just wanted to give the Xwing a boost for free, but not allowing PTL, should read something like: When you reveal your dial, you can perform boost action. If you do, skip your action phase.

That's a harsh tradeoff for 2 points cost on top.

I don't see that much of a problem with PTL plus this. Sure it's good but we have seen more awesome things in action economy by far.

Hey, I didn't say anything about losing an attack die. The attack penalty comes from no action attack related, since you're boosting. No focus, no TL unless you had one. It's a cool 2 pt. boost only.

I don't really like giving up the attack dice. Sure, you can use it in plethora of situations to reposition yourself, but Xwings are already on a clock against most stuff. One turn with crappy firepower can be everything.

Hey, I didn't say anything about losing an attack die. The attack penalty comes from no action attack related, since you're boosting. No focus, no TL unless you had one. It's a cool 2 pt. boost only.

I don't really like giving up the attack dice. Sure, you can use it in plethora of situations to reposition yourself, but Xwings are already on a clock against most stuff. One turn with crappy firepower can be everything.

Also in my original proposition you lose 1 AD but gain 1 AGI plus a free boost.

Should equal a 2 point buff approx while staying situational but useful and unique.

Yes indeed, but by not giving it a flat buff, but asking us to sacrifice something to gain something else makes the thing interesting.

Also in my original proposition you lose 1 AD but gain 1 AGI plus a free boost.

Should equal a 2 point buff approx while staying situational but useful and unique.

I like the idea, but if you do the +1Agi -1Att, you've just created a pre-fix TIE Advanced with a slighty different dial and 2 less actions. We already know the pre-fix TIE Advanced was about 4 points too expensive, hence the discount for system slots, so if we do this S-foil idea then it needs to include *roughly* 4 points of upgrades assuming it's a 0 cost upgrade.

I like boost as an include in this upgrade, but we need to be careful so as not to invalidate Engine Upgrade and R7-T1 as options. Options are good but if we create an option that is objectively superior in every way, I think we do the game a great disservice. Engine Upgrade I'm less worried about, but given that Astromech's are only available to 3 ship types, I want to keep them more or less desirable across all of them.

I think S-Foils are something that should be an option. Options are good, an switching 3/2 and 2/3 between turns gives you the option to be more offensive or defensive. Given I have little imagination, lets call this a stance mechanic. We are going to let players choose the stance they feel will give them the greatest advantage at any one time. Our S-Foil stance emphasizes speed and maneuverability, our 'normal' stance is slower but hits harder.

So lets go with

Dynamic S-Foils

X Wing Only, Modification, 0 cost

Before you reveal your maneuver dial, you may choose to activate or deactivate the S-Foils. To activate, place the S-Foil token next to your ship, to deactive, remove the S-Foil token. While the S-Foil token is next to your ship, your Primary Attack decreases by 1 and your Agility increases by 1. In addition (as in, also while the S-Foil token is next to your ship) after you perform an action, you may perform a free boost action.

The logic here is that you can't gain the boost while stressed or after you have crashed into someone. You can only use the boost while the S-Foil is active, but you could use it with Push the Limit to go Action->Boost->PtL Action or with Expert Handling to go Barrel Roll -> Boost -> Remove TL->Stress.

While the S-Foils are active, the X-Wing now on a 2 Attack ship, so it becomes a bit more slippery but doesn't hit as hard. Also, as the Attack penalty is primary only, you can still launch ordnance to full effect.

The important questions here are

1) Is there any reason to be in the 'normal' stance for the X Wing, or have I just invalidated that part of it too? I don't think so. If you think you will be out of your enemy's arc, or if you think throwing more attack dice will give you a bigger advantage, it's probably a situation you can engineer. I think it also depends on the pilot. Biggs will always have the S-Foil active. Luke probably will end game. Wedge I think likes to attack more to maximise his ability.

2) Has this invalidated Engine Upgrade or R7-T1. Engine Upgrade I don't care as much about, but because there are a bunch of EPT's that give you penalties if you don't have the Boost action on your action bar, and that's what Engine Upgrade does, I think it becomes a question of synergy. R7-T1 is a little bit trickier. Given this version of the S-Foil, you can TL-> Boost whenever you want, there will be less oppportunity with R7-T1 as you need to be in the arc of an enemy . R7-T1 allows you to do it in the 'normal' stance. I think the S-Foil is overall more useful and also doesn't cost anything. There's no opportunity cost between the 2 so you can have both.

3) Are any pilots now unfair.

Rookie, Red, Tarn, Hobbie, Jek, Garven - I don't think so. I also think they all have reason to switch between the 2 stances as the situation dictates.

Biggs - is significantly better, and he has no reason to not have it. The Foil + R5-P9 increases his survivability by quite a bit. Not sure if that's overpowered but something to think about.

Wes - has a better time lining shots up. His damage drops but you use him to strip the tokens off enemies anyway, not necessarily for damage.

Wedge - is in an odd place. He doesn't 'suffer' as much because of his pilot ability, and he tends to get a lot of hate because of it. I think he would gain quite a bit of survivability from this upgrade, but I don't think it would push him in to the realm of overpowered.

Luke - is actually the guy I'm worried about. He becomes a late game monster with R2D2, 3 Agility, semi-focus and a free boost giving him shield regen AND some limited arc dodging. Throw in Lone Wolf and he gets some rerolls too. If there is any OP argument about this, Luke is it.

Yes indeed, but by not giving it a flat buff, but asking us to sacrifice something to gain something else makes the thing interesting.

Also in my original proposition you lose 1 AD but gain 1 AGI plus a free boost.

Should equal a 2 point buff approx while staying situational but useful and unique.

I like the idea, but if you do the +1Agi -1Att, you've just created a pre-fix TIE Advanced with a slighty different dial and 2 less actions. We already know the pre-fix TIE Advanced was about 4 points too expensive, hence the discount for system slots, so if we do this S-foil idea then it needs to include *roughly* 4 points of upgrades assuming it's a 0 cost upgrade.

I like boost as an include in this upgrade, but we need to be careful so as not to invalidate Engine Upgrade and R7-T1 as options. Options are good but if we create an option that is objectively superior in every way, I think we do the game a great disservice. Engine Upgrade I'm less worried about, but given that Astromech's are only available to 3 ship types, I want to keep them more or less desirable across all of them.

I think S-Foils are something that should be an option. Options are good, an switching 3/2 and 2/3 between turns gives you the option to be more offensive or defensive. Given I have little imagination, lets call this a stance mechanic. We are going to let players choose the stance they feel will give them the greatest advantage at any one time. Our S-Foil stance emphasizes speed and maneuverability, our 'normal' stance is slower but hits harder.

So lets go with

Dynamic S-Foils

X Wing Only, Modification, 0 cost

Before you reveal your maneuver dial, you may choose to activate or deactivate the S-Foils. To activate, place the S-Foil token next to your ship, to deactive, remove the S-Foil token. While the S-Foil token is next to your ship, your Primary Attack decreases by 1 and your Agility increases by 1. In addition (as in, also while the S-Foil token is next to your ship) after you perform an action, you may perform a free boost action.

The logic here is that you can't gain the boost while stressed or after you have crashed into someone. You can only use the boost while the S-Foil is active, but you could use it with Push the Limit to go Action->Boost->PtL Action or with Expert Handling to go Barrel Roll -> Boost -> Remove TL->Stress.

While the S-Foils are active, the X-Wing now on a 2 Attack ship, so it becomes a bit more slippery but doesn't hit as hard. Also, as the Attack penalty is primary only, you can still launch ordnance to full effect.

The important questions here are

1) Is there any reason to be in the 'normal' stance for the X Wing, or have I just invalidated that part of it too? I don't think so. If you think you will be out of your enemy's arc, or if you think throwing more attack dice will give you a bigger advantage, it's probably a situation you can engineer. I think it also depends on the pilot. Biggs will always have the S-Foil active. Luke probably will end game. Wedge I think likes to attack more to maximise his ability.

2) Has this invalidated Engine Upgrade or R7-T1. Engine Upgrade I don't care as much about, but because there are a bunch of EPT's that give you penalties if you don't have the Boost action on your action bar, and that's what Engine Upgrade does, I think it becomes a question of synergy. R7-T1 is a little bit trickier. Given this version of the S-Foil, you can TL-> Boost whenever you want, there will be less oppportunity with R7-T1 as you need to be in the arc of an enemy . R7-T1 allows you to do it in the 'normal' stance. I think the S-Foil is overall more useful and also doesn't cost anything. There's no opportunity cost between the 2 so you can have both.

3) Are any pilots now unfair.

Rookie, Red, Tarn, Hobbie, Jek, Garven - I don't think so. I also think they all have reason to switch between the 2 stances as the situation dictates.

Biggs - is significantly better, and he has no reason to not have it. The Foil + R5-P9 increases his survivability by quite a bit. Not sure if that's overpowered but something to think about.

Wes - has a better time lining shots up. His damage drops but you use him to strip the tokens off enemies anyway, not necessarily for damage.

Wedge - is in an odd place. He doesn't 'suffer' as much because of his pilot ability, and he tends to get a lot of hate because of it. I think he would gain quite a bit of survivability from this upgrade, but I don't think it would push him in to the realm of overpowered.

Luke - is actually the guy I'm worried about. He becomes a late game monster with R2D2, 3 Agility, semi-focus and a free boost giving him shield regen AND some limited arc dodging. Throw in Lone Wolf and he gets some rerolls too. If there is any OP argument about this, Luke is it.

1) No reason to change the mechanical text of the S-Foils like i wrote it. If we say it's a free action, then we could not perform it anyway after K-Turning or receiving stress for some other reason. PTL would not work either i believe since it's no upgrade from the action bar, and that's fine to prevent action abuse. But i am not entirely sure of that. I think you could trigger PTL from the boost, but then you could not perform your normal action, so you don't get at 3 actions per turn. Also after bumping another ship, no boosting i believe, as it's still an action. If we clarify that it happens in the action step it's even clearer since you skip it after bumping. If anyone feels compelled to analyse this, go ahead the text is just a few pages up the thread!

2) I don't see a risk of it being underpowered. It's situational but does not create a second Advanced, because you can default back to your standard stats any turn you want and fully benefit from your X-Wing as we all know it. So i don't see it as a 4 point upgrade. It's probably 2 points worth of upgrade since it's so flexible. If we add it as a modification we could give a title to the X-Wing reducing mod cost by 2, so it could cost 2-3 points and either be free for any X-Wing or a 1pt upgrade.

3) If S-foils would be a title, then the EU would probably lose it's appeal. But that's fine, i think X-Wings have been forced into taking EU for too long while it is too expensive on them, adding additional cost to an already overcosted ship. That was part of the reasoning behind S-Foils anyway.

If we add S-Foils as a modification, along with a title making mods cheaper by 2 points, we would not have an auto-include but a serious option nonetheless. Then we would have to decide between 0-1 point S-Foils and 2 point EU which is a good choice in any way.

I would not be concerned about R7-T1. It would not see much use on X-Wings, but then it probably was used on Y-Wings, especially Dutch a lot more anyway. It still has its place without any doubt.

3) I have thought about Luke, Tarn and Biggs for being the candidates for "OP-ness" if you gave them S-Foils.

Biggs can get boosted up to 5 evade dice with the agility droid, 4 if S-foils were introduced as a modification (no stealth device). But then he suffers from not having an action and will still be killable. If we look at Whisper with ACD it's much easier to get focus tokens on him than on biggs (needing squadmates) while also sitting at 4 green dice. He is also more killable than Stealth Autothrusters Soontir! I feel that for Biggs we have to really go away from the title idea and make S-Foils a modification. His ability is powerful enough to make him stay at 4 green dice with an occasional focus from Kyle or Garven, or an evade from Jan Ors crew.

Tarn will stay what he is. Annoying and powerful endgame with hus trusty R7. But i can't see balancing issues here.

Luke would become a lategame terror, especially in combination with Biggs. The old Frog squadron will become a real contender to the meta once more. But i don't see a real issue here. It will have good matchups against Falcons and maybe swarms too. Phantoms stay a serious problem for them, as will the new Advanced and Autothruster Squints (try and damage them at R3 with only 2 dice...)

I also feel Luke should be a very powerful ship. A lot of people probably started this game because of Luke and Vader, and since Vader finally becomes competitive once more, there is no wrong in making Luke a powerful choice again!

One of the problems with a mobility upgrade is that it only really helps out the high PS named pilots. Do they need help?

R3 Astromech

Cost: 1 or 2

Once per round after you have defended an attack you may perform a free Barrel Roll or Boost Action.

While it doesn't help against the initial attack. you have the chance to dodge a follow up shot from the attacker's wingmate and setup a counter attack with the following maneuver.

R6 Astromech

Cost: 3-5

Action: Perform a free Barrel Roll or Boost action. You may receive 1 Stress Token to perform both.

Combination Expert Handling and Engine Upgrade freeing up the EPT and the Modification slot for an Astromech.

Just a thought.What about a reinforce option for the X-Wing? In the movies they talk about "switch all power to front deflector shields"So an action or even just a upgrade that lets you have a free evade result vs all attacks that are in the X-Wings arc.Something like Front Deflector Shields: "If the attacker is in the defenders arc, the defender gets one free <evade> token."

If the problem for x-wings are arc-dodgers and high maneuverability ships, why not doing the opposite?

I mean, being able to have a free evade against ships shooting you from outside your firing arc

I'm not sure how essentially a free boost/barrel PTL is thematically appropriate for the X-wing.

One of the problems with a mobility upgrade is that it only really helps out the high PS named pilots. Do they need help?

I'm not sure how essentially a free boost/barrel PTL is thematically appropriate for the X-wing.

I will ask you something! If you see them in the movies or read about them in fluff, they are described or seen as decent dogfighters. They are not a hardly maneuvrable brick of a Fighter!

Now do you think that in X-Wing, regarding all the other ships having mobility options, the X-Wing is correctly represented?

For me the answer is clear. It's not a freighter or bomber, it should still be a fast and very maneuvrable ship, but it's not in this game!

But you're suggesting giving it the A-wing, E-wing and TIE interceptor's party trick.

Let's take a different approach, just to keep things in perspective. Take into account i don't want to turn the Xwing into an advanced, but they, in my opinion, fill the same spot. Elite all rounded ship.

ATC Tempest vs Xwing.

Just look at stats.

Xwing has 3/2/2/3

Tempest has 2(+1Crit)/3/2/3

Tempest is forced to target lock atleast once to keep up with the firepower (it's better tho). Xwing can use focus, something that is more reliable with low PS ships.

Tempest has also evade or barrel roll as actions, something the Xwing lacks.

3 Agility vs 2 Agility dice. All the time.

Both dials are somewhat Average. Xwing has 1 forward green, Advanced has a 5 forward, and he has a 3 straight forward. Can't really tell if one is really better than the another, except situationally.

Summary:

Tempest wins in:

- Agility

- Action versatility

- Biggest damage potential with TL (2,5 vs 2,25 average hits*) .

Xwing wins in:

- More reliable damage dealer every turn with focus (2,25 vs 1,5/2 focus/non Focus ATC).

What would i do ? Either increase resilience of the ship. Improving its agility would overlap with the E-wing and would make the ship a different ship that we had known for. Hull upgraded or Shield Upgrade by default would be a bandaid, even tho, decent in my opinion. Improve it's firepower, or add barrel roll/boost to it, either action, or niche use if priced properly. Improving it's firepower would have the problem or only adding more power creep to 4 dice attacks from any range (phantom, dash).

What i wouldn't do ? Give it efficient action usage. After giving it more thought, giving it boost + Target lock wouldn't be useful. I don't like the boost either, its cost is ineficient. Expose costs 4 points, that's what an Attack dice + Drawback costs. A boost costs 4 points aswell. 1 point would be a more attuned price for that. That would give it some similarity on Tie advanced effectiveness when it wants to use an action instead of TL'in. Of course, the ATC still wins, because it can use it everyturn after.

Ideas:

Smart Target lock systems (Torpedo slot): At the beginning of the combat phase, if a TL ship is not in his arc of fire, the Xwing can decide to boost, if he does, he loses 1 attack dice that turn and can't use the TL. 1 point.

Hull upgrade (Torpedo slot): Mah Xwing is stronger.

Rogue Squadron (Title): +2 PS, 1 point.

Xwings would be more efficient at jousting due to PS, and Xwing pilots could free up its EPT. They could also be the highest PS pilots in the game, undermining their maneuverability weakness, while also keeping it fluff friendly. Ships that can arc dodge an xwing, still could since they don't have the amazing dial, but they would have a harder time while doing so, losing actions and firepower while trying to. It also makes Xwing top dogs, to be one of the small base regular ships that could put heavy burden on phantoms by default building.

Rogue Squadron (Title): Gives the Xwing the barrel roll + evade action. 1 point.

Still, less point efficient than the Tempest, but allows for interesting options, specially PtL buddies with regular R2's.

Problems:

The high PS pilots will be the ones that will benefit the most of any upgrade. That happens with ATC too, so i think it's kind of fine. The Xwing's should atleast be encouraged to be played as nameds, and right now, they are all niche in the past wave and the current one.

Notes:

Take into account i do believe the Xwing is overpriced by 2 points. So when an upgrade is costed as 1 point, in reality is 3 points, but the 2 points less are to overcome the pricing.

Dreadstar, in your accounting of the new Advanced, the Tempest actually fares even better if it takes Accuracy Corrector. That pushes its average attack higher. The difference is in the maximum damage dealt. The AC Advanced only need two evades to cancel all of its dice results. The X-Wing often needs three evades to cancel everything.

I feel like Biggs is the one that really breaks everything here. You can't boost defense without making a strong Biggs stronger, and you can't boost offense because they can hide behind Biggs.