I am so glad no forum poster designs for FFG.

In response to some if the other posts that came up:

If you think that free hull or shield points bring the X-Wing more in line with the Y-Wing and B-Wing, what about the E-Wing then? The X-Wing would have flat out more HP than an E-wing here which would feel awkward to me. It's not a bad idea either but i find it a bit boring and it just adds nothing to the X-Wing but a 3-4 point discount really.

The "give Predator naturally" concept is quite interesting i believe, but would also be a little hardcore as a buff.

Any droid you make at this point seens copied from Recon Specialist, Vessery's Pilot ability or other preexisting stuff. That's not bad but i don't see FFG doing that because they usually will not just copy/paste an effect from a crew to an Astromech or something. Also making an overpowered Astromech destroys all the older Astromechs, which is a shame.

I also can tell you why they probably made S-Foils for the ships in the movies. It's simply because X-Wings and B-Wings would be very awkward to land if they could not foil their Wings. Otherwise it was probably a cool idea inspired by WWII carrier planes. I am aware that they don't say in the movies:"Hey lock S-Foils in attack position so you have more firepower." Or:"Fold S-Foils, we need to go faster." But i do believe you see S-Foils unfolding in the movies, right?

But in many games and i believe also books there has been added fluff concerning the S-Foils. In a few games dating even much further back than the Nintendo64 they had a utility function instead of just enabling the craft to land properly on a flat hangar deck.

And quite honestly if FFG did not draw inspiration from video games, we would probably not fly the Outrider and Dash Rendar around the table, would we? Nor would the HWK exist. The Defender? Not so sure.

If they dwell into EU like they do, S-Foils make perfect sense.

The advanced targeting computer is another of those things. We see Vader turn a few buttons in the movie and lock X-Wings and Y-Wings in his sights. But i think that's the purpose of any targeting computer. What tells us that this is the "advanced" version. Nothing! Yet we are now made believe that this version the Advanced will now get is much better than a standard one. And that's great! They added the ATC in order to give something very special and unique to the advanced that also creates new fluff about the Tie Advanced.

In the S-Foils case we even have fluff indicating that they have additional utility. So why would FFG shy away from reinforcing that fluff about the X-Wing.

To sum it up, i believe they will not get around remedying the X-Wings lack of mobility and tankiness. Be it by S-Foils or by other means, the two issues have to be adressed. Adding massive firepower or endurance alone will probably not resolve the problem imho. It will just make another shuttle of the X-Wing. A tanky bulwark lumbering around the battlefield but hopelessly lost after a joust since it can't outmaneuver or outrun its opponents. That is not what X-Wings are in any fluff i remember, guys. They are shown as maneuvrable and fast craft. And as such their mobility needs a buff!

realistically it makes no sense that the X-wing has more hull than the B-wing.

I hear what you're saying on symmetry, but it's not silly for the X-wing to have a higher hull number than the B-wing. The B-wing has the same hull as a TIE fighter is better shielded than the TIE defender and has tougher shields than a Decimator. Its shields are on par with the front of the CR-90.

The B-wing's got eight hit points. So many are shields rather than hull in order to make them uncrittable. If the B-wing were 4/4 rather than 3/5 I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelid.

When you perform a green maneuver, you may perform a free focus action.

What I dislike about this one is that it takes the X-wing off its white dial and encourages the X-wing to fly very slowly. Ever flown against an R2-D2 X-wing in full regen mode? It flies less like a starfighter and more like an oil tanker.

Title- T-65C-A2, X-Wing only

Treat all K-turns as white manuvers.

This would turn the X-wing into a TIE defender, which isn't really true to the X-wing. The X-wing's a straightfoward ship and anything you give it should keep it an X-wing.

Also no offence meant to the original poster for a very thorough account of the X-wings struggles, but your post(s) remind of a bad "director's cut" ala a bad Christopher Nolan movie, or the Hobbit movies by Peter Jackson. Directors should be not be allowed to edit their own movies

...

You're going to have to clarify that one.

If you mean the flow's off, I didn't edit or redraft it. It's a giant forum post, not a newspaper article or a thesis. I just put pictures in it to break up the wall of text.

RecSpecMech?

Cute. Why not just make a mech for every crew member type and call the X-Wing fixed? Or did you not consider the Rebel Transport pack a fix?

I'll bite.

Firstly, because making an astromech version of every non-unique crew wouldn't really help. Recon Specialist's effect or one that similarly grants double focus (RecSpec's the best way to do it I've seen in my opinion, hence me not changing it for the sake of changing it) has wide ranging applications. It's a straight defensive upgrade for the X-wing and E-wing generics, it helps out the Rebel BTL-A4 Y-wings (the Scum ones have R4 for the same sort of effect), lets Y-wings use Blaster Turret effectively and makes Garven Dreis good, a proper squad leader like he's meant to be. The other crew aren't really much use to the X-wing both thematically and mechanically.

From your outrage at the suggestion that two different upgrades of different types could have very similar effects, I'm guessing you're under the delusion that the effects from crew are crew exclusive effects, the vast majority aren't. Let's look at the others.

Intelligence Agent: One of the few effects that's only been on Crew so far. Can't see any benefit to making a maneuver reveal astromech for a class of ships that only has one that can reposition.

Mercenary Copilot: Hardly a unique effect, see Proton Torpedoes, Marksmanship, Mangler Cannon, Rear Admiral Chiraneau.

Saboteur: Proton Bomb, Rexler Brath. (Also, who uses Saboteur?)

Tactician: R3-A2, anyone?

Navigator: Stay on Target, Boba Fett.

Gunner: Double attacks? BTL-A4.

And that's just crew. Doesn't Outmaneuver look familiar to another notable ability?

As for Rebel Transport, here's what it had:

Tarn Mison: Paired with R2 Astromech he's a solid cheap X-wing in the exact vein I was discussing. I also discussed him at length. There's only one of him.

"Hobbie" Klivian: Costs the same as Biggs for a highly situational ability that saves you, what? One green maneuver. To make the most of him he needs R2-D6 and a stress EPT like PTL or Opportunist (and now things with EI he can do too). And look! He's suddenly 30 points.

Jek Porkins: Creeps towards the high thirties once you've loaded him up with all the stuff to make him not faceplant the Death Star.

Wes Janson: Decent pilot, 29pt off the bat.

Flechette Torpedoes (also in E-wing): Nice for the torpedo slot but it's mostly the TIE bomber that benefits from these.

R3-A2 (Stressbot): Pretty amazing but it's a unique with its setbacks.

R2-D6 (EPTbot): 1 point tax and lose your astromech slot to give pilots that needed an EPT an EPT. Not seen much. It's an option and one that does get used, but not much.

R5-P9 (Focus Token Regenbot) : Basically an alternate R2-D2. It's nice with focus passers but Garven and Kyle don't show up much.

R4-D6 (can't be triple hit): I've never seen this astromech. Ever. It's just not useful on anything that's not a Y-wing, and Y-wings have better options.

So, uh, no. Despite your (cute) condescending tone you're wrong, the Rebel Transport is not an X-wing fix . It doesn't power it up in the slightest, doesn't bring any underused pilots back into use and while it does give it some new options they're pretty much all for the 30pt elites.

Optionswise, the Rebel Transport gave it some neat new named pilots for the 30 range, another regen astromech and Stressbot. Stressbot was something of a trick for the Rookie over the B-wing, then the B-wing suddenly got B-wing/E2 and Tactician, which isn't unique. The nearest thing to a "fix" is R2-D6 which was something of a failure in that regard (Hobbie aside) because it stops you combining EPTs with astromechs.

EDIT: Derp. Accidentally doubleposted again.

Yeah TIE i don't understand the director's cut post either...

On the matter of the S-foil upgrade, there are plenty of other lore rationalisations that could work for it. Flapping S-foils is a pretty silly image but the X-wing did have a variable power grid that could shunt power around the ship on the pilot's command, to the shields, engines or weapons.

X-Wing have S-Foils. Thats true. What do you want to do with it?

Do you want to keep track of the state with a marker just like Phantoms have one?

And what effects will this have in game? Something like:

Closed S-Foils: -1 Attack value, + Barrel Roll action

Opened S-Foils: original stats

Alter state via a free action after a regular action?

Do X-Wing pilots canon-wise alter the S-Foils during combat anyway?

All you would do is making the game more complex. More tokens to manage. There are easier ways with more impact and less time-consuming.

Do X-Wing pilots canon-wise alter the S-Foils during combat anyway?

In games they close their S-foils to enter a boost mode, which either renders them unable to attack or able to attack at reduced firepower. In films they close the s-foils in flight and landing and open them in battle.

An open/closed state would indeed be unnecessarily complex. However, what I have seen suggested (and the mockup cards on the previous page use this version) is to make it a round by round thing: trigger the boost effect and then reduce primary weapon value until the end of the round in the vein of Expose, which doesn't use tokens.

Do X-Wing pilots canon-wise alter the S-Foils during combat anyway?

Yes, Revenge of the Sith, when Anakin is helping Obi Wan remove the buzz droids:

But this is the only time.

On the matter of the S-foil upgrade, there are plenty of other lore rationalisations that could work for it. Flapping S-foils is a pretty silly image but the X-wing did have a variable power grid that could shunt power around the ship on the pilot's command, to the shields, engines or weapons.

Well, this could work.

Do X-Wing pilots canon-wise alter the S-Foils during combat anyway?

Yes, Revenge of the Sith, when Anakin is helping Obi Wan remove the buzz droids:

But this is the only time.

This don't count

On the matter of the S-foil upgrade, there are plenty of other lore rationalisations that could work for it. Flapping S-foils is a pretty silly image but the X-wing did have a variable power grid that could shunt power around the ship on the pilot's command, to the shields, engines or weapons.

My proposition was to also give them plus 1 agi for Closed S-Foils (just imagine the ship going faster and represents a smaller target perhaps) and to make them free. After all it should not be a downgrade to the ship, but the "nudge" that FFG already promised pretty much.

But nonetheless even like you display them they would finally give the ship a mobility option that it so desperately needs!

On the matter of the S-foil upgrade, there are plenty of other lore rationalisations that could work for it. Flapping S-foils is a pretty silly image but the X-wing did have a variable power grid that could shunt power around the ship on the pilot's command, to the shields, engines or weapons.

Yes, excellent work.

My proposition was to also give them plus 1 agi for Closed S-Foils (just imagine the ship going faster and represents a smaller target perhaps) and to make them free. After all it should not be a downgrade to the ship, but the "nudge" that FFG already promised pretty much.

But nonetheless even like you display them they would finally give the ship a mobility option that it so desperately needs!

Very well done, indeed.

+ 1 agi would be too much. A free boost after revealing the dial already is very powerful.

But you would occupy the mod slot. Therefore I would say 0 points.

This or let it at 2 points and grant the X-Wings a title that gives a 2 point discount for modifications.

So the S-Foils/Power System would be for free, Shield Upgrade and Engine Upgrade would cost 2 points, Hull Upgrade only 1 point.

Lots of interesting ideas, a short list with some comments (if I didn't add your idea, sorry!):

- Recspecmech = An astromech handing out double focus. Give it the name of Garven's Droid and make it unique. 3 points.

- Dark Curse Astromech = Nice name, must be in black then. Giving focus after performing green manuevre. May I give this one a twist? Let it give the pilot a Target Lock after performing a red maneuvre. Let it cost 2 points.

It will make the X-wing far more aggressive, which I think is a good thing.

-Power Diversion System = A modification giving you a boost in exchange for 1 less attack die. 1 less attack die is a very steep price. Consider pricing it at 0 points or 1 if it might become an auto-include otherwise, but not a less then 0 points. As people will then make it an auto-include to decrease the cost for an X-wing but never use it.

- PS 6 Rogue Squadron Pilot with EPT = Good, but not at 24 points. As stated before, 4 Rogue Squadron Pilots with Veteran Instincts (1), will give you a list of 4 PS 8 pilots at 100 points. Would you even consider fielding anything else?

25 or 26 points is better priced in comparison to Biggs and Garven.

- Barrel Rolling Mech - Add an astromech who adds a barrel roll to the action bar. Not a copy of Expert Handling for 2 points. Make it one without the added stress token, but price at 4 points (comparable to engine upgrade which is 4 points). Then you have the expensive option for all, or the cheaper version for the higher PS pilots, who can negate the stress of Expert Handling with adding a generic R2 astromech. Extra option for all, but without making it a auto-include and without rendering older cards useless.

When being creative in making additional options for an X-wing (a fix is not necessary), take into consideration the powerfull upgrades that already exist: Veteran Instincts, R2 Astromech, Push The Limit, etc. If you price it wrong your X-wing doesn't get diversity, it becomes a game-breaker. Your plan might be brilliant for one situation but without carefull consideration your option has far-reaching consequenses in others. FFG designers will only get more used to this, because besides adding options to the ships, each upgrade also adds design limitations to themselves.

Tricky job...

On the matter of the S-foil upgrade, there are plenty of other lore rationalisations that could work for it. Flapping S-foils is a pretty silly image but the X-wing did have a variable power grid that could shunt power around the ship on the pilot's command, to the shields, engines or weapons.

Yes, excellent work.

My proposition was to also give them plus 1 agi for Closed S-Foils (just imagine the ship going faster and represents a smaller target perhaps) and to make them free. After all it should not be a downgrade to the ship, but the "nudge" that FFG already promised pretty much.

But nonetheless even like you display them they would finally give the ship a mobility option that it so desperately needs!

Very well done, indeed.

+ 1 agi would be too much. A free boost after revealing the dial already is very powerful.

But you would occupy the mod slot. Therefore I would say 0 points.

This or let it at 2 points and grant the X-Wings a title that gives a 2 point discount for modifications.

So the S-Foils/Power System would be for free, Shield Upgrade and Engine Upgrade would cost 2 points, Hull Upgrade only 1 point.

I would anyway leave the boost for after the movement. It might seem more standard and less powerful, but otherwise it is too easy to just block it.

Well that was at least my reasoning behind things. It all depends on how much of a buff you want to give to the X-Wing of course. And after all that is all a matter to discuss even if MJ thinks tzat it's 1-2 points.

But a flat modification discount would not be the worst of things either.

FFG finally came up with an excellent solution for the Tie Advanced.

Now its up to the player if you want to never lose your action or avoid bumping by perfprming a BR before revealing the dial (AS) , improved firepower (ATC, AC) or even different options like ps0 blockers ... there is no real auto-include upgrade card, even it is very likely that you might use the ATC. But you can't have it all.

For the X-Wings Some players want to add mobility, others survivability.

I'm sure FFG will come up with a perfect solution to maximize the happiness of rebel players when the time is right

Cloaked xwing plz

Cloaked xwing plz

Only over my dead body

Cloaked xwing plz

Only over my dead body

Cloaked Biggs with R2F2 would be everywhere..

Shield Booster Refit. Torpedo. X-wing only

Spend a focus token and do a straight 1 maneuver to regain a shield.

My 2 cents: Fighter-Bomber (title). Torpedoes nay be equipped at -2 squad points.

It emphasizes the multi-role nature of X-wings, in that they are both superiority and strike fighters. You could either have free flechette torps or 2 point protons. It's a little extra cheap option that makes generics a little more flexible, and aces a little more fearsome if you pay the points.

But wouldn't that make the X-wing a better bomber than the Y-wing, B-wing and TIE bomber (actual bombers?)

On the matter of the S-foil upgrade, there are plenty of other lore rationalisations that could work for it. Flapping S-foils is a pretty silly image but the X-wing did have a variable power grid that could shunt power around the ship on the pilot's command, to the shields, engines or weapons.

That upgrade might, just might, make a torpedo a viable option. Especially APT.

Just a thought.

What about a reinforce option for the X-Wing? In the movies they talk about "switch all power to front deflector shields"

So an action or even just a upgrade that lets you have a free evade result vs all attacks that are in the X-Wings arc.

Something like Front Deflector Shields: "If the attacker is in the defenders arc, the defender gets one free <evade> token."

Isn't comparing 25 point B-wings with AS with 21 point X-wings like comparing apples and oranges?

Won't rookies mixed with red squadron pilots beat the same number of blue squad b-wings without advanced sensors?

The X-wing doesn't favorably compare because the X-wing lacks generic astromechs that at 3-4 points equal to advanced sensors or fire control system. Unfortunately that 2 point astromechs which gives you a target lock on an evade dice reroll is indicative of how most overpriced astromechs are--it does 40% of what fcs does at the same price. Just release some new mechs comparable to SF advanced sensors and fcs.

Isn't comparing 25 point B-wings with AS with 21 point X-wings like comparing apples and oranges?

It is. But Alex did say in one of the interviews that he felt the X-Wing was in fact underperforming, and wanted to take a look at it.