First off, kudos to TIE Pilot for a great, thoughtful post.

Secondly, I apologize for not yet having read the entire thread. I always strive to do that before posting, but there's a lot here and it's taking some time.

Inspired by this thread , I've been thinking about a "Sideslip" maneuver. It's used throughout the X-wing novels, a slight repositioning that I think cold find a place in this game, and give the X-wing in particular a cool, unique maneuver.

Modification:

(Maybe X-wing only)

Etheric Rudder

If you do not have the (Boost) or (Barrel Roll) action, you may perform a Sideslip in conjunction with your revealed maneuver.

Performing a Sideslip

When you reveal your maneuver dial, you may choose to perform a Sideslip before or after your maneuver. To perform a Sideslip, declare left or right. Place the straight 2 template along the front of your base, aligning one end with the opposite side of your base (so if you declare Sideslip right, place the straight 2 template along the front of your base, aligned with the left side of the base). Move your ship in the direction declared, aligning the other side of the base with the other end of the template. Performing a Sideslip increases the difficulty of your revealed maneuver by 1 "rank" (green becomes white, white becomes red, cannot be done with a red maneuver). Large ships Sideslip using the straight 3 template (if not X-wing only).

That's woefully unclear, most like, and I'll leave the wording to you rules gurus. Essentially it's a short Barrel Roll (but only 1 base width total) with no forward/backward movement, that can be performed before of after the chosen maneuver. This would allow some minor repositioning without being a full-on Barrel Roll or Boost, and would also not eat up an action. Could help the X-wing not land on the rocks, and could also help not overlap ships.

I'm quite sure that could all be condensed to something considerably more clear, but I like the "move within the maneuver" it implies, especially in regard to how it's used in the fiction.

the 2nd post of the Lurker here...

guys i dont get u all the x-wing is perfectly fine and got maaaaany times upgrades look at thier pilot disposal they have pilots that range from ps 2 up to ps 9 really they have any ps level except of ps 1. its the heroes and the synergy what makes the xwing so awesome. have u ever flown all the xwing heroes in epic play ? thier synergy is phenomenal,

yeah sure in standard play the generics lack a bit of usage but thats cause we are currently in the FAT HAN ERA. its the current meta that lets us all think omgeeez my x wing sux. ok maybe the generics cost 1 point more than they should i guess ? but still in my region they see play. i guess the german meta is alot different than the US one. u can give the x wing boost with engine upgrades theres no one stopping u to do that and still they are 2 points cheaper than the generic E-wing. and has 1 ps more than generic E-wing.

the x-wing will get upgrades in the future iam sure of that like more astromechs that come in with new rebel ships. ordenance is ok i mean ordenances are meant to be 1 time use meant to hit big epic like ships ok u could have made them 1 point or cost 2 points instead of 2-5 points but thats not up to us.. well this omg my xwing is bad thread goes on my nerves to be honest. i dont understand the fuss

Edit: iam not offending the OP or anyone here that has the opinion that the xwing sux. iam just sharing my opinion and thoughts

Title: Rushed Repair Job

Cost: -1 pts

X-Wing only.
All players must ignore your pilot ability.

This card has a negative squad point cost.

Want a cheaper X-Wing without making Biggs or Wedge (or any other Unique) OP? Just blank out their card ability to get the discount. Precedent for both the discount and the effect already exist. Could be a unique title, could be steeper discount, whatever. I think the basic concept works either way. But the player gets to decide if it's worth it. And it does allow a choice to put it on Wedge if you really want that Pilot Skill and EPT slot.

Thematically a lot of X-Wings get damaged in battle and the Rebellion struggles to get them repaired. So maybe this ship is mostly ready for dogfighting but has some quirks that prevent the skilled pilots from getting their usual above-the-line performance. Chumps don't notice so it doesn't reduce their combat effectiveness.

Done and done.

Title: Rushed Repair Job

Cost: -1 pts

X-Wing only.

All players must ignore your pilot ability.

This card has a negative squad point cost.

Want a cheaper X-Wing without making Biggs or Wedge (or any other Unique) OP? Just blank out their card ability to get the discount. Precedent for both the discount and the effect already exist. Could be a unique title, could be steeper discount, whatever. I think the basic concept works either way. But the player gets to decide if it's worth it. And it does allow a choice to put it on Wedge if you really want that Pilot Skill and EPT slot.

Thematically a lot of X-Wings get damaged in battle and the Rebellion struggles to get them repaired. So maybe this ship is mostly ready for dogfighting but has some quirks that prevent the skilled pilots from getting their usual above-the-line performance. Chumps don't notice so it doesn't reduce their combat effectiveness.

Done and done.

"Rushed Repair Job" is not a very appropriate title for a card that affects pilot abilities. Now, if it reduced Hull, as someone else suggested earlier, it would be a good title. What you are suggesting might be better titled :"Morning After" or "Squad Party", with pilot abilities negatively affected by the aftereffects of a good bender...

Title: Rushed Repair Job

Cost: -1 pts

X-Wing only.

All players must ignore your pilot ability.

This card has a negative squad point cost.

Want a cheaper X-Wing without making Biggs or Wedge (or any other Unique) OP? Just blank out their card ability to get the discount. Precedent for both the discount and the effect already exist. Could be a unique title, could be steeper discount, whatever. I think the basic concept works either way. But the player gets to decide if it's worth it. And it does allow a choice to put it on Wedge if you really want that Pilot Skill and EPT slot.

Thematically a lot of X-Wings get damaged in battle and the Rebellion struggles to get them repaired. So maybe this ship is mostly ready for dogfighting but has some quirks that prevent the skilled pilots from getting their usual above-the-line performance. Chumps don't notice so it doesn't reduce their combat effectiveness.

Done and done.

"Pilot must have squad ability" this shouldn't be able to be used on generics...

"Pilot must have squad ability" this shouldn't be able to be used on generics...

Actually putting it on generics is the primary use! The whole point made earlier is that buffing the X-Wing group as a whole is going to make the unique guys overpowered. But there's a general sense (backed up by mathwing) that the X-wings are just a tad overpriced. One upgrade, addresses both concerns and still leaves player choice.

And fine, the title leave something to be desired. Thats what I get for coming up with it at work.

But mechanically this fix seems to make it all better.

IMO, the X-wing fix is the much-debated Ordnance fix, and to me it's as simple as an errata to the basic rulebook. By granting an additional, universal effect to Torpedoes and Missiles (speculation on what those fixes might be isn't the point of this thread, or this post,) and making them an attractive option would buff not only the X-wing but the Bomber as well, and to a lesser degree the Y-wing. Now I know the B-wing can take missiles as well, but if we make Proton Torpedoes the one-shot terror that many think they should be, we can field a 25 point Rookie Pilot that out-damages an equally pointed B-wing.

In my opinion the X-Wing needs more killer-astromechs and less p***y-mechs!

X-wings need a title to optimise the crap astromechs, like R5-K6 and R5-D8 (no excuses, he is crap). That green dice thing seems like a residue from pre-wave 1 design, when they were more cautious of making things too OP. So make a card that gets rid of it.

Laser Convergence System

0 points

X-Wing Only modification

Secondary weapon

When attacking, if the defender suffers any damage, the defender must suffer all rolled damage. If your pilot skill is less than 5 the defender may roll one additional attack dice.

Tweaks for balance?

This is very thematic based on both the movies and books. If you've played a lot of XvT or Alliance you'll recognize the mechanic instantly. Laser convergence makes everything slightly harder to hit, but will vape a tie fighter instantly when you do hit.

A free hull is more or less suffucient. I could run the numbers again with an extra shield instead, it would obviously be just slightly better.

Actually, given the existence of astromechs that provide shield regeneration, it would me more than just slightly better.

A free hull is more or less suffucient. I could run the numbers again with an extra shield instead, it would obviously be just slightly better.

Actually, given the existence of astromechs that provide shield regeneration, it would me more than just slightly better.

Unfortunately not for the generics.

Upgrades always provide the most value on ships that are the most expensive to begin with -- which is why R2-D2 would continue to be better on Corran Horn than any X-wing, even with a free Hull.

Workhorse Fighter - X-Wing Exclusive Astromech Upgrade

if your ship's PS 1 or lower and there is another friendly ship with PS 1 or lower at range 1-2 at the beginning of the action phase, gain a focus token.

EDIT: Or make it a Torpedo upgrade. Whatever.

What about some sort of mod or title that reduces the cost of generic astromechs? That way we don't buff R2 D2 but improve the Astros you might take on generic x wings.

One option to boost Astromechs on X-Wings might be...

"Rogue Squadron" - Title - X-Wing only - 0 points - 'You may carry a unique Astromech even if the same unique Astromech is already in use in your squadron if the Astromechs' cost is below 4 points. '

What about some sort of mod or title that reduces the cost of generic astromechs? That way we don't buff R2 D2 but improve the Astros you might take on generic x wings.

For what purpose? The R2 Astromech is already excellent, as is the R7. The R5 is the only one that doesn't see play, and even then all you could do is make it cost 0 instead of 1 and I'm not even sure that would do anything beyond making it the "I don't have anything better to do" choice.

Little late to the party here but let me say first of all that was an excellent post, very eloquent.

The problem with a title like this (in that it's something people don't like) is that it's almost autoinclude. Usually I see it suggested as a 0 cost title (an outright patch). The two ships that received this sort of autoinclude or near autoinclude fix (Chaardan Refit and TIE/x1) desperately needed it. The X-wing isn't in such desperate need, and many would rather FFG didn't enter a cycle of successively nudging the "worst" ship up in power over and over like some sort of starfighter power level game of leapfrog until you need four expansions to get all the fixes for half the ships to be competitive. While the titles and refits for the A-wing and TIE advanced were greeting with joy it appears based on forum responses that people don't want an autoinclude "fix" where it isn't needed.

Anyone who argues the X-wing doesn't need at least a slight boost is wrong. Even Alex Davey admitted it needs a little something. Out of the 3 store championships I went to this year I saw about 4-5 X-wings from about 55 players. The last one Rebel swarms were everywhere I played 5 swarms out of 6 matches and only one of them featured an x-wing and he ended up going 1-3 despite being, what I thought anyway, a decent player.

Given the new Advanced Title if you compare a Rookie to a Tempest the Tempest far outclasses it.

How many lists had an X-wing in it in the final 32 at Worlds? Answer: 1. And they've yet to receive any specific upgrades since then so I think it's safe to say they need something, not just the generics, the ship as a whole.

As far as your argument for people not having to purchase 4 expansions to have a viable X-wing list I completely agree but the sad fact of the matter is that's what this game is, if you really want to field competitive lists you need to sink money into it. That said, you wouldn't necessarily need the Transport or even the X-wing expansion to be able to competitively field X-wings, you'd just need the potential new expansion and the core. I don't think just adding another droid or two in the new Rebel expansion will do enough unless it's a droid with a negative point cost.

Also I figure with the new movies it's almost inevitable that a 4th X-wing expansion is released given the new characters and whatnot so thems my two cents.

Is there actually something wrong with the X-Wing, or was it just another victim of the Phantom dynasty? Can't imagine we won't see some kind of resurgence now that cloaking has been fixed.

Is there actually something wrong with the X-Wing, or was it just another victim of the Phantom dynasty?

Everything it can do is done better by something else. The B-wing, Z-95 and A4 Y-wing are better jousters; the A-wing, B-wing and E-wing are better arc-dodgers; and everything else has a turret.

There are still some worthwhile pilot abilities (Wedge is peerless in that regard, and let's not forget the ubiquitous Biggs) and unique combos you can do with the astromechs, both things which can't really be found amongst those other ships. The problem is that named pilots are pricey when you upgrade them, and there wasn't enough room to fit in other elements that would give you a chance against Phantoms.

I personally don't feel the X wing's 2 agl cuts it. Even if my dice are pretty good you can loose an x wing very quickly and because of their cost it hurts when they go down. If they're going to have 2 agl they need to be tougher.

What about some sort of mod or title that reduces the cost of generic astromechs? That way we don't buff R2 D2 but improve the Astros you might take on generic x wings.

For what purpose? The R2 Astromech is already excellent, as is the R7. The R5 is the only one that doesn't see play, and even then all you could do is make it cost 0 instead of 1 and I'm not even sure that would do anything beyond making it the "I don't have anything better to do" choice.

To release in conjunction with some new awesome generic astromechs I suppose.

I personally don't feel the X wing's 2 agl cuts it. Even if my dice are pretty good you can loose an x wing very quickly and because of their cost it hurts when they go down. If they're going to have 2 agl they need to be tougher.

I feel that vulnerability even more keenly with the E-Wing. It's surprising how often you hit that Direct Hit! right after you lose your last shield. Green dice, they'll betray you every time.

I personally don't feel the X wing's 2 agl cuts it. Even if my dice are pretty good you can loose an x wing very quickly and because of their cost it hurts when they go down. If they're going to have 2 agl they need to be tougher.

I feel that vulnerability even more keenly with the E-Wing. It's surprising how often you hit that Direct Hit! right after you lose your last shield. Green dice, they'll betray you every time.

Never trust green dice!

Maybe the X-wing could use a slight improvement in terms of movement.

But adding a barrel roll or boost for a low price might be overdoing it.

Is there actually something wrong with the X-Wing, or was it just another victim of the Phantom dynasty? Can't imagine we won't see some kind of resurgence now that cloaking has been fixed.

I think this is probably true, but it won't be enough.

I personally don't feel the X wing's 2 agl cuts it. Even if my dice are pretty good you can loose an x wing very quickly and because of their cost it hurts when they go down. If they're going to have 2 agl they need to be tougher.

I feel that vulnerability even more keenly with the E-Wing. It's surprising how often you hit that Direct Hit! right after you lose your last shield. Green dice, they'll betray you every time.

ya don't say ...

but yeah, the superiority of the B-wing's base stats is the jettisoning of that extra green die for 3 more shields. The only X-wing pilot I've found ever got reliable use out of that higher value was Luke Skywalker (that "always on" ability makes a surprising difference), but even then you get some bull like 3 blanks on a range 3 shot