I wonder how well Mangler works with Tactician.

Just fine; Tactician happens after Mangler and since Tactician doesn't care about existing stress...

Do the two of you mean the flechette cannon? That is the one that inflicts stress.

I assumed he was talking about Flechette since crit/stress aren't really interacting mechanics.

So 2 flechette cannons cannot double stress a target, but they can stress large base ships. For only 2 points that seems fair. Plus, because of timing, an E2 Bwing w/ tactican and flechette cannon CAN double stress at range 2.

Mangler seems fair at 4 points to my eye.

It's only Ion that large ships need two of.

I have a feeling that tie defenders or something are going to have dual shot titles in the near future. These cannons are totally cost inefficient as added cost on top of what you pay and for giving up your standard attack

Scyks with Mangler go up one attack die. Defenders get critty.

Read: cost inefficient.

Sucks require a 2 point tax on top of the cannon cost. The named pilots suggest that the basic syck will cost either 13 or 14 points.

Then you tack on 2 points for the title. For the flèchette it's totally worth it. 18 point stress dealer fast. Dies like a dog though. Tie fighter.

Mangler should be completely inefficient. 3 dice for 20 points on the basic ship. Err. And dies like a tie. Nope. Ain't doijg that.

But let's look at the defender. The defender is already over costed by 3 points and does not dish out enough damage to give it any role or be a better choice than 2 and a half ties. Putting an additional cannon cost makes it even worse as you lose your main attack. Flèchette only does a max of 1 damage.

Mangler really isn't worth it. You lose your fourth die (you wouldn't use mangler at all) at R1. You simply change an existing hit to a crit. That's only like a half extra damage. For four extra points? Hell no. No way at all

Mangler is going to be better than a Defender's primary attack at range 3 and slightly better at range 2. Against ships like the Falcon or Decimator (and to some extent TIEs and Interceptors) the Mangler may very well be worth 4 points. Spending 2 points for an EPT that denies the range 3 bonus seems reasonable as does spending 2 points to have a hit result turned into a crit.

One of the generic pilots will be: Tansarii point _______. Can't figure out the blank.

Boba Fett + Lone wolf + Flechette cannon + gunner + engine upgrade. You. Will. Never. Escape.

I don't really see the synergy here. Flechette Cannon only inflicts stress if it hits, can only inflict stress on a target that is not already stressed, and the attack from Gunner uses the primary attack.

Boba Fett + Lone wolf + Flechette cannon + gunner + engine upgrade. You. Will. Never. Escape.

I don't really see the synergy here. Flechette Cannon only inflicts stress if it hits, can only inflict stress on a target that is not already stressed, and the attack from Gunner uses the primary attack.

He probably was looking for something that would reliabily hit (gunner + lone wolf), too bad he can't use gunner with secondary weapons so the point is moot.

Boba Fett + Lone wolf + Flechette cannon + gunner + engine upgrade. You. Will. Never. Escape.

I don't really see the synergy here. Flechette Cannon only inflicts stress if it hits, can only inflict stress on a target that is not already stressed, and the attack from Gunner uses the primary attack.

Yeh, at first point I cheered, but then I read. *sigh*

One of the generic pilots will be: Tansarii point _______. Can't figure out the blank.

Agent? Pilot? Attacker?

So 2 flechette cannons cannot double stress a target, but they can stress large base ships. For only 2 points that seems fair. Plus, because of timing, an E2 Bwing w/ tactican and flechette cannon CAN double stress at range 2.

Mangler seems fair at 4 points to my eye.

It's only Ion that large ships need two of.

I have a feeling that tie defenders or something are going to have dual shot titles in the near future. These cannons are totally cost inefficient as added cost on top of what you pay and for giving up your standard attack

Scyks with Mangler go up one attack die. Defenders get critty.

Read: cost inefficient.

Sucks require a 2 point tax on top of the cannon cost. The named pilots suggest that the basic syck will cost either 13 or 14 points.

Then you tack on 2 points for the title. For the flèchette it's totally worth it. 18 point stress dealer fast. Dies like a dog though. Tie fighter.

Mangler should be completely inefficient. 3 dice for 20 points on the basic ship. Err. And dies like a tie. Nope. Ain't doijg that.

But let's look at the defender. The defender is already over costed by 3 points and does not dish out enough damage to give it any role or be a better choice than 2 and a half ties. Putting an additional cannon cost makes it even worse as you lose your main attack. Flèchette only does a max of 1 damage.

Mangler really isn't worth it. You lose your fourth die (you wouldn't use mangler at all) at R1. You simply change an existing hit to a crit. That's only like a half extra damage. For four extra points? Hell no. No way at all

As far as the heavy scyk is concerned, every cannon/torpedo/missile is going to be cost inefficient in the vacuum because of the title cost. The cost of the cannons by themselves is fair IMO. Where a lot of people go astray is equating critical hits to bonus damage, where they are more of a control element to me. 1/3 of them generate additional damage whereas the other 2/3 put debuffs on the effected ship, limiting maneuvering options, weakening stats, losing actions, missing shots, etc. Paying 2 to 5pts to add a control element (ion, stress, critical) to a ships attack is not something I shy away from.

In the post wave 5 meta, large base ships with large hull values will be prominent, and anything that adds critical damage while removing bonus range 3 evade dice that doesn't cost your action is viable, even if it's not optimal. Previous posts have already pointed out the benefits of Mangler Cannon on Gingerbread Dash. For flechette cannon, consider these two lists...

100pts

Maarek Stele w/ X1 title and ATC

2x Omicron Lambda w/ FCS, Gunner, Tactician, Flechette Cannon & engine upgrade

100pts

Eaden Vrill

2x Wild Space Fringer w/ tactician & flechette cannon

One of the generic pilots will be: Tansarii point _______. Can't figure out the blank.

Agent? Pilot? Attacker?

Tried Cadet, Trainee, and Rookiee, no luck.

I tried raider, defender, ace, squad, pilot, flyer, hero

One of the generic pilots will be: Tansarii point _______. Can't figure out the blank.

Agent? Pilot? Attacker?

Tried Cadet, Trainee, and Rookiee, no luck.

Just tried agent, pilot and attacker, as well as spacer, merc, mercenary, pirate, bandit, thug and fighter. Nothin'.

You know how likes the Mangler Cannon: Imperial Kath Scarlet. Opens her up for other Elite Talents. With the recent ruling on Rexlar, I do like the Mangler on him. If the crit is one of the ones you flip down, he can flip it back up. The Outrider will also like it. On the flip side, it becomes a bit less scary with only 3 Atk.

The Flechette is for control builds. To be used with other stress inducers.

Flechette Canon on Eden Vrill? (No outrider title)

with gunner or luke?

Flechette Canon on Eden Vrill? (No outrider title)

with gunner or luke?

Flechette Canon only works if it hits an enemy. Why would you put Gunner or Luke?

Flechette Canon on Eden Vrill? (No outrider title)

with gunner or luke?

Flechette seems very limited overall. It may see some use in conjunction with Ion builds, so I can see it fitting with some Rebel Control lists, but anyone who runs it as filler will probably hate it.

I'd rather stick with Ion Cannon over Flechette Cannon for 1 more point. There are builds that can feed off removing stress, where as, there are no builds that feed off being ioned.

Flechette's seem to enable control in a scum list more than anything. Heavy Scyk's with Flechette's are reasonably cheap and they don't lose all that much damage relative to a normal Syck. But then again for an extra point, ion might be better.

Can't see many high damage ships using them, maybe shuttles.

On the other hand it is also a cheap Swiss Army knife option for the Aggressor. Cheap enough to splash, and not rely on it.

The mango cannon was cheaper than I thought it would be. I think it is a great addition to the game for the options it gives The Outrider, but particularly Ten Numb and Imp Kath (if anyone suggests putting a Flechette Cannon on Imp Kath they should be force choked).

Great job finding those, many thanks!

My two cents:

Flechette Cannon will be good on B-Wings with E1 and Tactician. I used the same thing just with an ion cannon, which works about the same, just for 1 point more and being a little better to predict enemy movement.

Keyan Farlander might love the combo as he can reliably stay at range 2 and obliterate a ship after double stressing.

Other than that, for 2 points its good, but also very limited in use.

Mangler Cannon is a very good choice for YT-2400 with or without Outrider, but especially with the title. No donut might allow to also drop Engine upgrade on some builds which frees 7 points to be spent elsewhere. The ship will still prefer long range fighting because it gets no bonuses or penalties at short or long range, but it's not defenseless in close quarters.

I don't see it on Defenders really, The damage output will not be alot bigger and that for 4 points. I don't think so. MJ might calculate this at some point and prove me wrong but i will prefer the Ion cannon on Defenders if i take any. Ionize them, K-Turn behind them and then light em up. That's probably more effective.

Indeed i don't see a big use of the mangler on any ship that already has 3 attack dice. On them, for 4 points you find better stuff. Ten Numb and Kath might still like it though.

The Skyks are very glass cannon. If we assume 13 base points they will come at 19 with a mangler. You can field 5 then and have 5 points to play with. Very vulnerable, but good firepower!

The talent on the new Pilot is decent and a good combo with Serissu indeed. 18 points on a PS6 is a bit on the high side if we look at Howlrunner, Mithel, Backstabber in comparison, but then those are probably too cheap XD.

What really bugs me abit is that he/she has no EPT slot. That would have been quite an important upgrade slot in order to make any further investment in her 3 hitpoints viable.

I'd rather stick with Ion Cannon over Flechette Cannon for 1 more point. There are builds that can feed off removing stress, where as, there are no builds that feed off being ioned.

You will see at some point they will bring out JarJar Binks as a Pilot and he will definitely benefit from being ioned

Unfortunately, this strongly suggests that the PS2 Scyk will be 14 points. I was hoping that Serissu was paying a 1 point premium for her ability, but Laetin's pricing suggests otherwise.

Unfortunately, this strongly suggests that the PS2 Scyk will be 14 points. I was hoping that Serissu was paying a 1 point premium for her ability, but Laetin's pricing suggests otherwise.

Laetin and Serissu might be paying 1 point for their pilot abilities. The M3-A point costs may go 13-15-18-20.

Jonus lists will get a little more flexibility with the addition of the Mangler Cannon. It looks like if you take the Jonus Brothers list and switch to Mangler Cannons instead of HLCs you'd have some additional options.

You could take Jonus, a Delta, and Brath and have 3 points to play with. You could take Jonus and 2 Bounty Hunters with 4 points left to spend. Jonus, a Delta, and Kath would leave you with 2 points to spend.

Unfortunately, this strongly suggests that the PS2 Scyk will be 14 points. I was hoping that Serissu was paying a 1 point premium for her ability, but Laetin's pricing suggests otherwise.

Thankfully this still allows for a Serissu+3x Cartel HLCs-on-a-stick list.

I had some hopes that the new cannons would instill a bit of life on Defenders...

But If Vessery is in a position to use its ability (most likely, because it's mandatory to build your list around him) he will prefer using the HLC.... And conversely, if Rexler can use its ability, he really doesn't need the extra crit. And both of them would prefer Ions over Flechettes.

Kath and Ten Numb, however, will definitely have some fun.

I had some hopes that the new cannons would instill a bit of life on Defenders...

But If Vessery is in a position to use its ability (most likely, because it's mandatory to build your list around him) he will prefer using the HLC.... And conversely, if Rexler can use its ability, he really doesn't need the extra crit. And both of them would prefer Ions over Flechettes.

Kath and Ten Numb, however, will definitely have some fun.

Vessery + HLC costs the same as Vessery + Outmaneuver + Mangler Cannon. In any comparison of the HLC and Mangler Cannon I think you really need to consider what you'd do with the 3 points that you aren't spending on the cannon.

The HLC may still be the better option in a lot of cases but I think the Mangler Cannon opens up a lot of new build options.