Here is my theory: now that two factions have a huge ship, and I'll bet scum has one announced by next years end, for epic scale tournament games a squadron building requirement will be the inclusion of at least one epic ship. This is to cut down on the mega swarm that dominates epic tournament play currently.

Clearly FFG is going to do what they want and try to maintain a good balance in the game, but in the narrative that is the Star Wars universe, I just don't understand the fringers of society having epic sized ships. It makes sense for Rebel/Empire/Republic/Separatist to have these as they had galactic-scaled wars. Pirates, crime lords, bounty hunters and the like just don't compute for a ragtag bunch of criminals.

People have mentioned Jabba's ship as an epic possibility, but it wasn't really a warship, but rather a starliner. Also mentioned has been the Errant Venture, but this again was re-structured to be a floating/flying bazaar, not a warship. The Black Sun criminal syndicate didn't even have an epic-sized ship in their armada that wasn't a freighter.

Personally, for Scum & Villainy, I'd like to see a proliferation of large ships in lieu of an epic in this faction. Let's face it, bounty hunters have cool ships and I'd love to fly them all.

Well the Zann Consortium had Epic-size ships, I think they could even join in the Armada format.

Epic size isn't the largest in the Star Wars universe. There is a reason FFG had to design a smaller Arrowhead-shaped ship as all Destroyers are to big.

Clearly FFG is going to do what they want and try to maintain a good balance in the game, but in the narrative that is the Star Wars universe, I just don't understand the fringers of society having epic sized ships. It makes sense for Rebel/Empire/Republic/Separatist to have these as they had galactic-scaled wars. Pirates, crime lords, bounty hunters and the like just don't compute for a ragtag bunch of criminals.

People have mentioned Jabba's ship as an epic possibility, but it wasn't really a warship, but rather a starliner. Also mentioned has been the Errant Venture, but this again was re-structured to be a floating/flying bazaar, not a warship. The Black Sun criminal syndicate didn't even have an epic-sized ship in their armada that wasn't a freighter.

Personally, for Scum & Villainy, I'd like to see a proliferation of large ships in lieu of an epic in this faction. Let's face it, bounty hunters have cool ships and I'd love to fly them all.

We aren't talking about massive capital sized ships. There are plenty Corvette sized ships that would be available to Scum.

I think a scale up to epic play for the standard would be a grave mistake. This is a dog fight game not a ship sized game. If you want that play armada when it hits. Up scaleing the game to require large ships would be going do the same path that Games Workshop has gone down causing many people to quit. Eliete units and Heavy units should be as limited as possable. Also units that take the game to a whole new level of rule set should never be in the compeditive meta and should remain as a form of casual play.

I think a scale up to epic play for the standard would be a grave mistake. This is a dog fight game not a ship sized game. If you want that play armada when it hits. Up scaleing the game to require large ships would be going do the same path that Games Workshop has gone down causing many people to quit. Eliete units and Heavy units should be as limited as possable. Also units that take the game to a whole new level of rule set should never be in the compeditive meta and should remain as a form of casual play.

Agreed, sometimes even the large ships can feel out of place in a dogfight. I stay to mainly fighters as much as possible.

(Yes, I do have the Falcon. But, you know..., it is the Falcon, THE Millenium Falcon..., you know... Right?)

;-)

There are plenty Corvette sized ships that would be available to Scum.

Yeah, pirates don't make it very long if the only thing they have are fighters or small freighters. They need something to haul cargo around. I don't think having S&V in Armada makes sense, but a epic ship for X-Wing, sure I can see that. There's plenty of 150m sized S&V ships out there.

The real reason to get the Raider is because it's an awesome cool looking ship.

There are enough epic tournaments currently for something to be dominating them?

Possible SCUM Huge ships:
Hound's Tooth

Wild Kaarde

We aren't talking about massive capital sized ships. There are plenty Corvette sized ships that would be available to Scum.

I guess that those sized ships just aren't coming to mind from the narrative that I can recall.

Possible SCUM Huge ships:

Hound's Tooth

Wild Kaarde

I can see the Wild Karrde as it is sized right for an epic, but the Tooth is only 60 meters or so, making it 2/3 the length of the transport, so it's kind of in an in-between spot. My other issue with the Wild Karrde is that while Talon Karrde may have been a smuggler and information broker, he's always been a good guy in our eyes. Sure, Han and Chewie were in Mos Eisley, but I don't think that they were frequent guests unless they had to be. Karrde will always be a rebel asset in my mind rather than some flint-nosed pirate like Hondo Ohnaka or a ruthless crime lord like Xizor.

Karrde would have never called himself a rebel. He belongs in the scum faction.

He's a criminal and fringe operator, that is what the scum and villainy faction is supposed to cover. Yes, 5-6 years after the death of the emperor he is more or less sympathetic to the new republic, but before that he is a straight up criminal.

Oh, and the hounds tooth is 2/3s the size of the transport, not 1/3. The transport is 90m long. The tooth is just over 1/3 the size of the Tantive.

Errant Venture!

There really is no rush to have a Scum and Villainy "HUGE" ship. IG-88 pretty much already fits the epic build for scum, since the only way to really field A,B, C, and D will be in an Epic game (points-wise).

We aren't talking about massive capital sized ships. There are plenty Corvette sized ships that would be available to Scum.

I guess that those sized ships just aren't coming to mind from the narrative that I can recall.

Possible SCUM Huge ships:

Hound's Tooth

Wild Kaarde

I can see the Wild Karrde as it is sized right for an epic, but the Tooth is only 60 meters or so, making it 1/3 the length of the transport, so it's kind of in an in-between spot. My other issue with the Wild Karrde is that while Talon Karrde may have been a smuggler and information broker, he's always been a good guy in our eyes. Sure, Han and Chewie were in Mos Eisley, but I don't think that they were frequent guests unless they had to be. Karrde will always be a rebel asset in my mind rather than some flint-nosed pirate like Hondo Ohnaka or a ruthless crime lord like Xizor.

Lets be honest here. Han was an upstanding member of the scum faction before a Obiwan hired him. I would say he didn't officially become a good guy till moment he came back and saved Luke at the battle of Yavin. If X-wing were set 10 years previous he would fit right into the scum faction.

I'm thinking Gozanti cruisers. And then they release an Imperial one too.

Lets be honest here. Han was an upstanding member of the scum faction before a Obiwan hired him. I would say he didn't officially become a good guy till moment he came back and saved Luke at the battle of Yavin. If X-wing were set 10 years previous he would fit right into the scum faction.

Which is exactly why Han, Chewie and Lando should have Scum versions (along with the Falcon.) ... but that's for another thread...

Clearly FFG is going to do what they want and try to maintain a good balance in the game, but in the narrative that is the Star Wars universe, I just don't understand the fringers of society having epic sized ships. It makes sense for Rebel/Empire/Republic/Separatist to have these as they had galactic-scaled wars. Pirates, crime lords, bounty hunters and the like just don't compute for a ragtag bunch of criminals.

We aren't talking about massive capital sized ships. There are plenty Corvette sized ships that would be available to Scum.

In addition to Sithborg's counterargument, I would argue that you may be framing fringers from a point of view that comes from someone used to our world, where private and criminal military-scale forces are few and far between. That's not the case for a galaxy in which you have an expansive and largely chaotic Outer Rim. The anarchy of that region definitely offers scope for crime lord factions to really arm up at a capital scale. Just look at the scope of Hutt Space. You really shouldn't be surprised if Scum would have resources that would dwarf what the Rebellion is able to scrape together.

After all, Scum exist to gather resources in a chaotic environment, where the only non-material thing they have to pay attention to is maintaining fear in their adversaries. Meanwhile, the Rebellion, as we understand it, has to maintain a hearts & minds campaign, which would siphon away resources and opportunities.

I think a scale up to epic play for the standard would be a grave mistake. This is a dog fight game not a ship sized game. If you want that play armada when it hits. Up scaleing the game to require large ships would be going do the same path that Games Workshop has gone down causing many people to quit. Eliete units and Heavy units should be as limited as possable. Also units that take the game to a whole new level of rule set should never be in the compeditive meta and should remain as a form of casual play.

Agreed, sometimes even the large ships can feel out of place in a dogfight. I stay to mainly fighters as much as possible.

I think that you guys who advocate for this grave mistake of epic seem to be needlessly afraid that epic will somehow diminish your opportunities for the standard 100-point-6-asteroid-Death-Match (100p6aDM). It simply will not. You can settle down, and let those few of us who do really like the epic format continue our uphill struggle to try to get a constituency that would like to scale up just a little.

=====

Anyway, to the OP:

The real reason to get the Raider-class corvette is that the thing looks awesome, and I am salivating at the prospect of:

Crushing the Rebellion,

Seeing them fly the field, and

Listening to the lamentation of Mon Mothma.

...at an epic scale.

The reason to get a Raider? I see two big ones. The most important is that it is simply a great looking Imperial ship that can be used in epic instead of relying on swarms coming from no where. To a lesser extent the improvements to the Advanced that may allow it to become playable is the second reason.

As for the Scum and huge ships I really don't see why they would need to be kept out of the game. Let's remember that "Epic" in X-Wing is still Corvette size and when it comes to Fleet actions those ships are small potatoes. There are plenty of ships that could work as a Scum Epic. The Wild Karrde is actually an interesting possibility when you consider that it is built around an Action bulk freighter. The "base model" may not even have weapons which would be added via titles and such to give them a very customizable ship.

We aren't talking about massive capital sized ships. There are plenty Corvette sized ships that would be available to Scum.

What about the CR90 itself? I'm not too much up on the canon but could that be a Scum option?

We aren't talking about massive capital sized ships. There are plenty Corvette sized ships that would be available to Scum.

What about the CR90 itself? I'm not too much up on the canon but could that be a Scum option?

I think so. Gillespee, a smuggler associate of Talon Karrde's, flew the Kern's Pride, which was a modified CR-90.

However, I have the notion that FFG would only want to do such a thing (sell cards, rather than a whole new model) if they don't expect that another Scum Huge would draw the sales they want.

I guess what will help them make up their mind, if they haven't done so already, is to see how well Scum will sell when it hits the shelves.

Here is my theory: now that two factions have a huge ship, and I'll bet scum has one announced by next years end, for epic scale tournament games a squadron building requirement will be the inclusion of at least one epic ship. This is to cut down on the mega swarm that dominates epic tournament play currently.

I doubt that'll be a rule quite simply because it would prevent you from playing epic if you only owned one epic ship.

I think Jabba's ship would be a nice huge addition to scum. Lots of thematic opportunities there.

S&V. Needs Hounds Tooth