Introducing an Astromech that grants a free boost or b-roll action after a successful green maneuver would be good fun

Not meant as an attack, but maybe some ships suit some people less than others. This might give the impression they are not competitive and need a fix, but they really don't. It might just be..., not your to go to ship.

Otherwise I must demand an A-Wing fix again...;-)

E-wing - Sure the generics suck ...

... which means they need a fix.

By that logic the YT-1300 needs a fix.

I'm hoping with Scum we will see less and less Phantoms in lists. That's the one ship that absolutely kills X-wings. Otherwise X-wings do pretty well against everything else.

Maybe we could get MajorJuggler, if he's got time, to run the maths on the suggestions in this thread.

The X-Wing is about 2 points over where it should be, but I do not see a 'Refit' fixing that. I would much rather see a 0 point title card like 'Rouge Squadron Pilot' that adds a hull for example.

Being a fan of both the books and the comic book series, I like this idea. However, I just can't see adding 1 hull. I can, however, see adding 1 agility, but I think that's probably OP. Story-wise it would make sense, meta-wise, I think it would break the x-wing right open. :-/

I ran the numbers and concluded that the generics need a free hull to be competitive. The issue is that it makes Biggs and Wedge really good. To be fair Ed got the idea from me, I'm pretty sure.

1. Go to the pinned index thread.

2. Scroll down to the end and click on my House Rules thread.

3. Scroll down to X-wing / Ewing etc.

4. Click the spoiler tab to see discussion and numbers. E-Wing and X-wing both have old vs new numbers.

I've read that, I was expecting more suggestions to have cropped in the thread by now than the free hull.

How does a Recon Specialist Astromech at ~2pt hold up mathematically (for Blaster Turret Y-wings, Ion BTL-A4s, X-wings and E-wings)?

OR you could fix the person using said hammer. If you dont hammer in that nail at the right angle its just going to bend. Dont blame the hammer for user error.

The problem I see stated a lot is that there's a better, more cost effective hammer (the B-wing) that outclasses the X-wing as a brawler, and several cheaper hammers (Z-95s) for running filler and blocker.

I'm not convinced the X-wing's terrible any more than you are, but it sure does die fast. That RecSpecMech I suggested'd help out the generics without buffing the popular named pilots in addition to helping out the very underused Garven Dreis, the Blaster Turret Y-wing the Rebels never use and would be nice for E-wing generics.

E-wing - Sure the generics suck ...

... which means they need a fix.

By that logic the YT-1300 needs a fix.

No. By that logic the generic YT-1300 (Outer Rim Smuggler) needs a fix. That's assuming the ORS does indeed suck.

E-wing - Sure the generics suck ...

... which means they need a fix.

By that logic the YT-1300 needs a fix.

No. By that logic the generic YT-1300 (Outer Rim Smuggler) needs a fix. That's assuming the ORS does indeed suck.

ORS is the best blocker in the game. Give it an Int Agent a Navigator, and a Tact Jam or APL, and go ham.

Recon spec astromech is interesting, but how about something a little different: "When you perform a green maneuver, assign yourself a focus token". Can be functionally similar, but it also makes it far easier for the E/X/Y to pull off torpedo attacks. Similarly, MajorJuggler brought up the important point that while the base E/X hull is perhaps overpriced, both ships have excellent pilots that ARE worth it. However, an astromech like this (or recon spec) isn't going to win that astromech slot on Corran.

Recon spec astromech is interesting, but how about something a little different: "When you perform a green maneuver, assign yourself a focus token". Can be functionally similar, but it also makes it far easier for the E/X/Y to pull off torpedo attacks. Similarly, MajorJuggler brought up the important point that while the base E/X hull is perhaps overpriced, both ships have excellent pilots that ARE worth it. However, an astromech like this (or recon spec) isn't going to win that astromech slot on Corran.

Free focus tokens aren't going to win a spot on the "I attack twice" guy? Really?

E-Wings with advanced sensors are probably the best rebel dogfighter that I've flown.

Recon spec astromech is interesting, but how about something a little different: "When you perform a green maneuver, assign yourself a focus token". Can be functionally similar, but it also makes it far easier for the E/X/Y to pull off torpedo attacks. Similarly, MajorJuggler brought up the important point that while the base E/X hull is perhaps overpriced, both ships have excellent pilots that ARE worth it. However, an astromech like this (or recon spec) isn't going to win that astromech slot on Corran.

Free focus tokens aren't going to win a spot on the "I attack twice" guy? Really?

To be fair, it's real hard to argue with R2-D2 on a 3 agility 3 shield ship

FCS generally fills the double-tap gap

Recon spec astromech is interesting, but how about something a little different: "When you perform a green maneuver, assign yourself a focus token". Can be functionally similar, but it also makes it far easier for the E/X/Y to pull off torpedo attacks. Similarly, MajorJuggler brought up the important point that while the base E/X hull is perhaps overpriced, both ships have excellent pilots that ARE worth it. However, an astromech like this (or recon spec) isn't going to win that astromech slot on Corran.

Free focus tokens aren't going to win a spot on the "I attack twice" guy? Really?

To be fair, it's real hard to argue with R2-D2 on a 3 agility 3 shield ship

FCS generally fills the double-tap gap

Yeah, that's really what I'm getting at. A lot of what makes Corran good is that he can disengage and recharge shields while the doubletap means his damage output doesn't suffer as much as on other pilots.

*EDIT*

Or to put it another way, the difference between reconbot and R2D2 is such that you are not seriously changing Corran's power level. You would be going from a more defensive build to a more offensive build. Meanwhile, R2D2 is hard to justify on generics in part because he takes time to take effect. Extra focus tokens are good right here, right now and the astromech to get that effect doesn't need to be as pricey as R2D2.

I like the recspecmech idea, but only because it boosts all three. Drawbacks though, sonwe need another version of PTL in the game? We already have so many

Cheaper (I'd say 2pt) non-unique astromech version of Recon Specialist. Call it R3 or R6 Astromech.

I'm completely serious.

Remember how good a RecSpec is on a Firespray? The X-wing's durability is raised without compromising its offence, the E-wing's durability is greatly raised too. Deadeye becomes much more viable on Rebel ships giving their ordnance a buff. Garven Dreis is significantly buffed. The Y-wing can now use Blaster Turret effectively. It uses the Astromech slot so it won't power up the already powered up Scum Y-wings.

It's not ridiculous because we've got R4 Agromech doing a similarly powered thing for Scum. And it's not autoinclude because it's in competition with all the other excellent astromech options.

This is an awesome idea. Totally agree.

Though corran horn with fcs, double focus and an ept of your choice would be an absolute menace. Maybe too much.

I do love the idea of done focus x wings tho. Garven with double focus would be obscene.

Recon spec astromech is interesting, but how about something a little different: "When you perform a green maneuver, assign yourself a focus token". Can be functionally similar, but it also makes it far easier for the E/X/Y to pull off torpedo attacks. Similarly, MajorJuggler brought up the important point that while the base E/X hull is perhaps overpriced, both ships have excellent pilots that ARE worth it. However, an astromech like this (or recon spec) isn't going to win that astromech slot on Corran.

Free focus tokens aren't going to win a spot on the "I attack twice" guy? Really?

It'd be an option, but you're sacrificing R2 Astromech (for PTL boost/barrel interceptor behaviour)/R2-D2 regeneration. Plus Corran's got other ways to power up his second attack like Fire Control System too, so other astromechs remain serious considerations.

Though corran horn with fcs, double focus and an ept of your choice would be an absolute menace. Maybe too much.

He wouldn't be regenerating health every turn though. The current main Corran build does a E-wing green, PTLs and regains a shield. It may have FCS on top of that. It sounds awesome but it doesn't sound broken to me.

What I like about the RecSpecMech is the vast number of applications.

At its base its a durability buff for naked or minorly upgraded E-wings and X-wings, they've got a focus for attack and a focus for defence.

Garven Dreis might actually see tournament use as if he's got two focus to spend he can hand off two focus tokens, making him a proper squad leader (canonically he's Red Leader).

Scum have a version of this in R4 Agromech (target lock when you spend a focus token) that makes the Blaster Turret usable on Y-wings. Double focus makes Blaster Turret work for Rebel Y-wings too, and also works nicely with BTL-A4 where you're shooting twice.

On popular YXE pilots it's not as much of a buff because they've got other competing astromechs. Stressbot for everyone, R7 for Tarn, R2-D2 for PTL Corran, R2 Astromech for anything PTL or Opportunist, R7-T1 for high pilot skill, and Dutch Vander wants to target lock so double focus doesn't do much for him.

The only negative I can think of really is this tanking up Biggs a little more.

Cheaper (I'd say 2pt) non-unique astromech version of Recon Specialist. Call it R3 or R6 Astromech.

I'm completely serious.

Remember how good a RecSpec is on a Firespray? The X-wing's durability is raised without compromising its offence, the E-wing's durability is greatly raised too. Deadeye becomes much more viable on Rebel ships giving their ordnance a buff. Garven Dreis is significantly buffed. The Y-wing can now use Blaster Turret effectively. It uses the Astromech slot so it won't power up the already powered up Scum Y-wings.

It's not ridiculous because we've got R4 Agromech doing a similarly powered thing for Scum. And it's not autoinclude because it's in competition with all the other excellent astromech options.

This is an awesome idea. Totally agree.

Though corran horn with fcs, double focus and an ept of your choice would be an absolute menace. Maybe too much.

I do love the idea of done focus x wings tho. Garven with double focus would be obscene.

One thing to consider here is that you cannot compare the scum astromechs to rebel astromechs 1:1. Scum can only put their bots on Y-wings and as a faction have a much greater focus on individual performance and damage output while lacking a lot of the synergies that rebels have.

How about an astromech called "Training Droid" which costs -1 points and only can be equipped on pilot skill 4 or less?

5 rookies will still be inferior to 4 naked phantoms.

Or it could cost 0 points and increase pilot skill by 1 and then it wouldn't need to be limited to below pilot skill 4.

Recon spec astromech is interesting, but how about something a little different: "When you perform a green maneuver, assign yourself a focus token".

Night Beast?

I wouldn't be too surprised if down the line something is down the line something is done with the astromech that would buff the x and e wing. Introducing the new R8 astromech!

R8 - "The Ocho"

Cannot be used if turret weapon equipped

Increases shield value by 1

2 points

23 point Rookie X with 3 hull, 3 shields

29 point Knave with 2 hull, 4 shields

I could get behind that. Plus, it's nicknamed "The Ocho"!

Recon spec astromech is interesting, but how about something a little different: "When you perform a green maneuver, assign yourself a focus token".

Night Beast?

Better, since it just assigns the token. Use it when clearing stress or with the focus action for a pseudo recon spec

I wouldn't mind seeing a droid that converts an ion token to a strain token.

E-Wings are great ships, very customizable, agile, and hard-hitting. But they cost a few too many points for what they bring to the table. They suffer from paying for all the upgrade slots they have, in the same way that it is not usually a great idea to load up one ship with many upgrades if it is not survivable.

Corran and Etahn have great pilot abilities, which is why they see play. Corran is a great hit&run ship with R2D2, and Etahn is a force modifier (and is fantastic in epic). Their abilities compensate for the overall overcosting of the E-Wing statline and dial.

Generic-only titles are a good targeted fix for E-wings, and possibly X-wing generic pilots. That's also a template that could be applied to fix generics of any ship type that are underperforming. I had a pretty decent 'Fix the E-wing?' thread that talks a lot about that.

A-wings and Advanced both received direct or near point shaves from thier intial costing. What both ships have in common in extremely limited access to upgrades, having only a missile slot and some EPTs. Thus FFG has less ability to impact the playability of those ships, except directly. The listed Rebel ships have much greater access to upgrades, though in the X-Wings case it's just Astromechs, and as such can be made more attractive via less direct means. Additionally none of the three ships reached the point A-wings or Advanced did.

This is why I feel you won't be seeing A-wing/Advanced level of attention to them.

Please. Just. Stop.

There is nothing wrong with these ships and you are only asking for trouble.

I knew FFG opened pandora's box when they released Chardaan Refit.... Now we'll have a never ending series of requests to "fix" things that aren't broken.

Would you rather FFG stop releasing stuff for old ships?

I for one am very happy with the approach of release new ships and release upgrades and pilots that refresh and renew old ships. The Advanced and A-wing needed effective cost reductions/blatant buffs and they got them. I don't think there are any other ships in the game that need free stuff. However, that does not make all ships equal. Some are better than others, some are outclassed by another ship in the same faction serving the same role, and thus need diversification into new roles or increased effectiveness in their current role to see roughly equal use.

The X-wing, for example, is not a bad ship. It's hardly relegated to the shelf like the Advanced once was. Its problem is that its role is as a rebel jouster: it's fairly tough and packs a punch, a simple and to the point ship. Thing is, in Wave 3 another ship joined the Rebel Alliance in that role and seems to have outclassed it as a brawler. I refer of course, to the B-wing.

The B-wing, a highly durable brick of health with firepower to match the X-wing and TIE interceptor, for which Advanced Sensors has turned its supposedly Achilles Dial into an excellent one. The B-wing hits just as hard, is tougher, and due to having more hull and less agility needs to spend fewer actions on defence. The B-wing ended up serving the same role as the X-wing and all the mathematical analyses done by respected members of the community I've seen suggest it does better at it. The X-wing has some nice named pilots that are used to pull off combos with other ships but as a ship the B-wing is the better X-wing, as odd as that sounds.

(Blockerwise and costwise it's also beaten by the Prototype A-wing, which matches or even it for staying power for six points less, and the Z-95 which is a hull upgrade and attack die down for just over half the cost.)

For those saying don't update and renew ships or that there should be "tiers of power," the response to that is to leave the X-wing. What I think, what a lot of the community thinks and luckily what FFG thinks is that if the B-wing is beating the X-wing then the X-wing needs something on the B-wing. There are two approaches to that: diversify, give the X-wing desirable tricks or options the B-wing doesn't have (which the named pilots do to an extent and a few of the astromechs provide) or buff: give the X-wing an option that makes it better at being a straight up jouster (by taking more punishment before Critical Existence Failure). Or do both.

The RecSpecMech I've suggested is an example for the X-wing: it gives it some new options and synergises very nicely with a few existing abilities but isn't a cost reduction or an autoinclude "fix". The TIE bomber is something of a cult ship, it has some (awesome) diehard fans but beyond them is widely ignored. Alex Davy said there were big plans for it. The E-wing has popular named pilots but mostly ignored generics.

Yes, often a ship is underrated rather than underpowered (Lambda Shuttle, arguably TIE defender) but when a ship that gives its name to the game is starting to fall out of use, one wants to see something to bring it back in.

Let's put it this way: the designers know what they're doing and won't break the game. If they make the X-wing some new options they'll be powered, costed and playtested to the best of their ability. They won't break the X-wing because an internet thread said they needed to.

Even if they aren't flagging behind, is new stuff for older ships not a good thing? The B-wing wasn't broken in the slightest, but the B-wing part of Rebel Aces was just as good as the A-wing part.