Or how a little 1 point upgrade nearly broke the game more than a year later.

Veteran Instincts, 1 point, increase your pilot skill by 2.

Lovely, so elegant, so nice. So good in fact that Tala's have it built in, making them 1 point more expensive than their Bandit brethren yet twice as good in PS. Same with Sabers and Royal Guards

Now look where it's gotten us? People complaining about turreted ships and golden droids, dashing donuts and if you're not PS9 then you're dead.

How did we get here?

VI. VI and Phantoms.

The race to the top got started when Whisper and Echo were announced. It took about all of two hours before people decided that VI was needed to push the pilots to a point where ACD was worth the cost and that without ACD the pilots were too squishy. This in turn pushed the meta to look for options to combat the high PS, high shooting, high evading bastards and we ended up with Fat Han.

Fat Han can be beaten, of course, but to reliably do so, in a local meta would mean you would have to build against him and to do that is to die to Phantoms, so people end up with trying to be able to do both and that is much harder.

VI was used at Worlds in 50% of the top 8 lists, nearly 50% of the top 16 and 30% of the top 32. Out of 11 lists with VI, 4 were used on Whisper, 4 were used on Han.

To me, that means that there is a problem, the race for a high PS has stifled list-design. The problem, to me, is not 3PO on Han, nor is it ACD on a Phantom, nor is the problem in the turrets, it is the two points of PS.

If we take VI out of the equation, and force Whisper and Echo to stay at 7 and 6 respectively, a whole host of pilots become interesting again and then we'd be seeing an initiative race to see if you can move after the Phantoms.

I propose that VI be nerfed to brind back some calm and open up some breathing room.

It doesn't really make sense to me fluffwise anyway that a veteran pilot, the best in the business, such as Soontir Fel, could take an upgrade to make him better. .

I suggest that VI be errata'd to read:

Increase your pilot skill by 2. May only be equipped on ships with PS 5 or lower.

This would keep the Phantom pilots down at a manageable PS while allowing people access to a slew of other pilots that would reliably move after them in order to respond. They'd still be powerful pilots, but not locked into a set design of auto-includes.

Oh, I'll be gone for a bit now, so I'll respond later to the outcries of "you're mad! Nerf VI! That'll ruin the game!"

I must say this is not the worst idea I have ever heard. Simple and elegant, a minor errata to a small upgrade. Would not mind at all if this became a thing.

VI is such a gamble in our games though.

I once stuck it as the second EPT on some green squadron test pilots as i expected to come up against a few mid range ties.

The wife surprised me by going 'all academy' (something she doesnt normally do) so i totally wasted points on three A wings as i would have out PS'sd her even without them.

But yeah i think the OP has merit.

But I want to put VI on Garven!

I am certainly the first to say that Phantoms are very strong and very decently costed. But if we do as you propose, Han just takes Predator again and starts laughing. It would definitely solve the "Phantom Menace" (pun intended XD) though.

But on a second thought, you might be right. Han is good, but his natural counter are tons of low PS generics with huge amounts of attacks and firepower. But they are unplayable because of Phantoms at the moment.

It could bring a shift in the meta if it was done, and that would be welcome!

If we adapt VI like you suggest first, there will be natural Skill 7, 8 and 9 reappearing in the meta.

Then after that probably we would see a serious regress in phantom lists because stuff like Interceptors, the new Advanced, B-Wings, A-wings and other good non-turret ships could outmaneuver them and shoot at 2 Agility.

Shortly after we would see generic pilots reappear, in order to beat the now outnumbered elite lists, and by that also Han. The circle closes and we see fireworks over Ewokville!

This could indeed be a very practicable solution to bring more diversity into competitive lists again. The longer i think sbout it the more impressed i am with your idea really!

I see mentions of Fat Han and Phantoms; I think you are a Wave behind us brother.

Could another solution be no mirror match. You must field two squads one empire and one rebel?

Instead of 'Increase your pilot skill by 2. May only be equipped on ships with PS 5 or lower.'

How about 'Increase your pilot skill by 2. May only be equipped on non-unique ships with PS 5 or lower.'

I've been advocating this for months.

Not *every* event but to see some 'narrative' tournys where you take two of the (soon to be ) three factions along.

If you cant decide between you who flies which then if you're at equal ranking you toss a coin.

Otherwise the player lowest in ranking gets to pick.

It would make organised play so much more 'star wars' for me.

At the mo i cant get into 'rebels vs rebels' games as it has no logical story and i play games for the narrative.

If there was a 'two list tourny' i'd sign up tomorrow.

Most vi'd phantom builds have left 1-4 points for initiative bid so It's not always as cheap as you think. Most players have put point's into upgrades to boost mobility to take advantage of that high ps (EU, ACD)

Personally I don't think it needs a fix. It's a good upgrade but not game breaking as far as I've seen. Sure it makes named phantoms scary but they should be. 40ish points for 2 hull and 2 shields is a huge risk and unless flow by a stellar player they don't usually pay off in my experience. Most of the time I see vi on anything other than a phantom or HSF list it's there because there were not enough points left for a PTL, Predator, or Lone Wolf. We see it a lot on corran because the standard fat dash list is 58 points while corran with vi r2d2 and fcs slides right into that 42 point slot.

If anything I'm happy when I see han with vi. It means I don't have to deal with him using PTL or something that makes his damage output even higher.

If you're convinced that VI is completely broken why don't you just limit it's PS bump to 1?

There are a number of really good EPTs available in the game now so you´re giving up a lot when you spend your EPT on Veteran Instincts. The Phantoms have to do it to be viable but for most other elite pilots VI is just one of the hard choices to make, often meta-dependant I imagine. Choices are good, I like the PS poker game myself.

I do believe the original suggestion of the tread carries some good ideas. I however think it goes into the knee jerk reaction to a current meta. This is a solution to a meta that is currently shifting and VI does not hold the same value as it once did. Even the current meta full of Dash and the Decimator will pass us by while we wait for the Scum and Villiany to arrive.

I would suggest we follow the advice of Aaron Rogers of the Green Bay Packers when dealing with solutions to the meta,

R-E-L-A-X

There are L and R wings now?

Increase your pilot skill by 2. May only be equipped on ships with PS 5 or lower.

And how many EPT slots are down there?

VI is for high PS pilots to give them a PS edge at the expense of EPTs, and for changing the initiative order of your ships to fire off abilities. It's a gamble almost to the point of not being worth it on lower PS pilots.

At the mo i cant get into 'rebels vs rebels' games as it has no logical story and i play games for the narrative.

Terrorists infight all the time.

The question now becomes, at PS 6 & 7, are Whisper and Echo even viable options anymore? I know I'd have a much harder time justifying 36 pts on a ship that has like 10+ ships that render ACD much less useful. You'd also have to worry about things like Chewy + VI. Etc.

I mean, it DOES suck that a lot of pilots, like most Interceptor pilots, are getting ignored almost solely because their PS cannot compete.

However, if you look back prior to Wave 4, almost NO PS 9 ships ever won a big tournament. The field was dominated by low PS, making PS 9 overkill. Things will likely change a bit in the coming year. Captain Oicunn, for example, is PS 4, but has ALL the right tools for beating high PS aces (ramming, Rebel Captive). Lots of Scum pilots have great abilities, even at low PS. Rebel Control will become very strong.

There is plenty of more fun to be had in this game.

I'm thinking that VI will lose a lot of its luster once Torkil Mux comes into play. When you have the possibility of coming up against a ship that completely negates your PS...it makes that high PS grab much less viable.

I think it would be best if VI was only usable for non-elite pilots. Elite Pilots and unique pilots' skills are already defined.

My main issue with VI is that it breaks the rule of upgrade costing more than innate ability. Typically, PS costs 1 point per level, with a few exceptions like from Bandit to Tala. By putting VI at 1 point for 2 levels, it becomes a very efficient upgrade for the effect, too efficient relative to the costs of everything else. I don't really have an issue with it, but it is clearly undercosted, particularly when you consider that most other upgrades cost more than the innate ability/cost.

Well I think its safe to say not going to happen.

I believe what ffg was going for with wave 4 was to break away from the low ps meta which I think is kind of nice.

A lot of lists from what I could tell in top spots were tie swarms, biggs walks the dogs and etc.

It kind of seemed like a waste to me of the high ps pilots. Everyone seemed to be playing low ps ships going for quantity vs quality.

Then wave 4 arrived, and I think its great to see so many named pilots hit the table and in some cases fully loaded.

Again something I don't believe we saw as much before.

2-3 ship builds are becoming popular again vs the 4-8 ship builds that's saw a lot before.

Now yo address one problem with what you suggested, if you were to change to wording on veteran instincts to only be allowed on ps5 or lower, how many ships can equip that? I think such an idea would just render veteran instincts useless.

I think its fine the way it is.

Your choosing an upgrade that may not benifit you in some games vs something like predator, lone wolf, ptl etc that can benifit you no matter what you fly.

Veteran instincts on whisper, or Han is a waste against swarms, or Etahn and mini swarms, biggs walks the dogs builds.

And on a small ship as fragile as a Phantom veteran instincts is the difference between life and death, and another reason why this card will not be changed.

Phantoms will likely disappear which I don't think ffg would want. Yes the occasional phantom will show with outmaneuver or lone wolf, but it would be a big blow to them

Sometimes veteran instincts in a game will only matter against one ship

Bona fett with veteran instincts vs Han with predator for example

In that case boba is only getting the advantage against the one ship if Han is flying with 3-4z95 for example.

List building is as important as asteroid placement and set up.

You have 1-3 pts left over, how do you want to spend them can make the world of difference, and you want you list to be viable against numerous lists, not just one

I actually think the OP's idea is a great. I wish PS was less influential -- and it was pre-Phantom -- than it is now. I'd rather a game that saw all PS ranges, and thus all pilots, used somewhat evenly. All generics removes unique abilities from the game, and most EPTs, entirely. Likewise, all PS8+ elites leaves the mid-level uniques in purgatory where they don't get used. This likewise feeds a simplified meta since people are forced to use a few powerful lists that have answers to PS incorporated. Frankly, I wouldn't mind dropping VI. Sure Phantoms now run the risk of having wicked hard times against higher PS lists but, um, isn't that what other lists face against Phantoms already given their CRAZY manueverability? Don't forget they have a unique movement ability that puts it into a class all its own. VI as a single card makes whole lists possible and as such is incredibly powerful at both the individual and meta levels, which I think is Dagonet's underlying observation.

That being said, I'm curious, Dagonet would you be willing to incoporate another 'check' to VI besides the PS5 limitation? Maybe you could make it like Adrenaline Rush where it is triggered and discarded, making it less domineering but still threatening. Render it situational instead of passively omnipresent. Or up-ing the point cost so that taking it reduces the rest of your list more? I'm personally more in favor of the situational tweak, rendering it more like a 'Lucky Shot.'

Actually, now that I think about it, in Allston's X-wing: Starfighters of Adumar Wedge talks with an Adumari pilot about when rookies are allowed to challenge vets to duels. The Adumari says it usually isn't allowed but an exception can be made if the rookie or less experienced pilot has a new manuever to try out. He gains experience against a senior adversary and the vet gets to learn a new trick. Along those lines, what about:

Insight: At the beginning of the movement phase treat your PS as 9. A the end of this round discard this card. You may use and keep this card once if during the combat phase you do not make an attack. (1 point)

OR

Insight: At the beginning of the movement phase treat your PS as 9. After two rounds of play immediately discard this card. (1 point)

Either lets you save it for a kill shot or make a push at an opportune time but also gives you some flexibility to help you survive. It isn't permanent so it carries risk.

Remember that FFG is intentionally pushing the pilot skill race. The last few waves were meant to breakup the old meta of four to eight ships flying formation in a block. With that in mind I would say VI is working as intended.

Except for the fact that very few pilots at ps 5 or fewer even have the pilot upgrade.......

Except for the fact that very few pilots at ps 5 or fewer even have the pilot upgrade.......

Green Squadrons, Saber Squadrons, Mandalorian Mercs... have I missed any?