While i know a lot of special characters can boost damage out put i only really noticed the other day that the 'outer rim smuggler' on the YT1300 seems to be the only 'pilot card' that is really penalised for who he is!

He's two red dice whereas as all the named pilots get three.

It just seems really odd that this is the only occurence i can see in the game where the actual raw damage output of the ship varies depending on who is flying it and *not* using an abiity or action.

Or have I missed another example.

I just cant really see the logic behind it.

the Outrider is a close second, since the only way to get a HLC turret is with that unique title card

I think that was FFG's way of displaying how much better the Falcon was then a stock YT-1300. Even though you don't need the title, it's clear that the ship Han, Lando or Chewie are flying is supposed to be something other than just a stock YT.

IMO the mistake was having the damage and HP increase be part of the pilot and not part of the title.

Yeah thats a good point.

I just cant see the 'rationale' behind it.

Perhaps its because the 'millennium falcon' is 'heavily modified' but surely that should be reflected by the title adding a red die.. not the pilot.

Because i know the Tie advanced is fixed now but if damage can vary because of who is flying and not be fixed to the 'airframe' then you could have made that ok by having a high PS generic with one extra damage die to reflect they were amazing shots.

I'm probably doing that thing that annoys me and over analysing a simple game here but i noticed it the other day when designing the 'convoy wolf pack' scenario with my wife and forgot about it until now.

Ninja'd by VanorDM there.

I just cant really see the logic behind it.

The Outer Rim Smuggler is flying a generic YT, the other three pilots are flying the Millenium Falcon.

Why aren't those stat buffs on the title card? Elegance.

I just cant really see the logic behind it.

The Outer Rim Smuggler is flying a generic YT, the other three pilots are flying the Millenium Falcon.

Why aren't those stat buffs on the title card? Elegance.

This is why I feel the Falcon should have been a title to boost the ships stats and all the ships have normal YT-1300 stats.. that way only one falcon could actually be on the table. Each ship flown by the respective named pilots is really a falcon.. I think they dropped the ball there.

I know this debate has been here before, but I still see the 3 named pilots all in a falcon.. but only one gets the evade boost from the title..

the other three pilots are flying the Millenium Falcon.

That's just it, they're not. If they were then how can you have a Millenium Falcon title that is unique?

If I have Han and Chewie on the table at the same time, in different ships... Which one is in the Falcon? If I have the title on one, then what is the other YT?

Yeah i can see how it would clutter a title card but it just seems an odd inconsistancy and something that *could* have been carried over to provide some interesting variety between squadron types other than PS

Just musing it, i'm not amazingly fussed but it was very fairly pointed out that i'd spent more time taking the micky lately than discussing the game mechanics so i thought i ought to do something about that

I totally get the 'elegance' argument but i think you other guys rightly put out a good point that if you had an epic list with han, chewie and lando... well two of them have to be flying stock freighters... the modifications they might do should be upgrades and make them better than an ORS who could have less upgrade/missile/system etc slots but they still wouldnt be the 'falcon'

I think i'd have made the falcon title read 'add one point to firepower, hull and shield and gain the boost upgrade'

thats not *overly* complicated.

Sorry if this has been done before, i'd not seen this subject crop up in the five months or so i've been on here daily.

the other three pilots are flying the Millenium Falcon.

That's just it, they're not. If they were then how can you have a Millenium Falcon title that is unique?If I have Han and Chewie on the table at the same time, in different ships... Which one is in the Falcon? If I have the title on one, then what is the other YT?

Its easy.. all three have the same stat.. that's the falcon, to make it unique they added the title.. what they should have done is make them all the same as the ORS and the title add the fluff.. it's a sore point with me, the generic is the standard YT.. the named should be in those with a single ship having the boosted stats..

I think they just didn't foresee a Twin Falcon list. Otherwise, it works as intended.

Well you see i was putting a playtest scenario up for sian and i (the wolf pack phantom attack on a YTs and Gr75 convoy) and gave the rebels an ORS as one ship... i know its one red die but i completely failed to realise how impotent it made what is normally a strong ship.

Part of the scenario was to knock out 'gravity well generators' that had pulled the convoy out of lightspeed into a trap.

I gave these 2 HP and 1 evade die (as they are small targets).

The ORS was struggling to hit them and when he did he rarely killed one outright!

The falcon came out in wave 2 and some of the concepts on how to present certain things hadn't matured yet. I think if the falcon were released now that it would have been identical stats for all the pilots with one or more expensive titles providing significant buffs.

It's just wrong. Pure and Simple. Hell, if there's any pilot out there that 'should' enhance his own ship and make it better than other pilots (especially generics), then surely it has to be Darth Vader.

Cheers

In "How I Would Have Done It"-land, I would have done two ship cards for each pilot, and integrated the title - Han would have one card in stock YT-1300 stats, and one with Falcon stats, with the ship type as "* Millennium Falcon". Accomplishes the goal, avoids cards modifying the base stats, limits the big-name ships to their thematic pilots, and makes the big-name ships (well, the Falcon, really) truly unique.

Titles have always felt awkward to me. The first few weren't bad - the Falcon can evade better, Slave I is modified. But even if we ignore things like "Random No-Name Bounty Hunter Flying Slave I", many of the others don't make sense. Why does the Moldy Crow hold focus better on a generic pilot? Why is the BTL-A4 a Title, while the B-wing/E2 is a modification? Titles were weakly themed from the start thanks to the Falcon, but have honestly become a go-to "Fixit" slot to improve underwhelming ships, with very little meaning for what it is or why they work the way they do.

The falcon came out in wave 2 and some of the concepts on how to present certain things hadn't matured yet. I think if the falcon were released now that it would have been identical stats for all the pilots with one or more expensive titles providing significant buffs.

I was going to say something similar. Hindsight is 20/20. Since the YT-1300 was the first turret ship, I think having a cheap YT generic with 3 attack would've been too powerful at that time.

Upon the release of the Falcon I was always shocked at its agility value....here you have this ship that has always been portrayed asa fast ship and an agile ship in the movies and novels and they give the model a realy low agility value...I laughed at that...I still do...but im an imperial player so its ok to laugh

The falcon is agile for a ship of its size, but tie fighters were still zipping around it at will and it is big enough to be kinda hard not to hit. It's speed and agility is therefore represented by its dial, which is very good.

the Outrider is a close second, since the only way to get a HLC turret is with that unique title card

Or the Decimator with Expose/EI, which has a higher ship price but the upgrade price is significantly cheaper to get those modified four dice.

One of those "cool in retrospect" things:

All YT-1300s have the ORS stats, with the unique "Millennium Falcon" title boosting the attack by 1, hull by 2, and shields by 1. And adds an evade action to the title bar. The cost would be (say) 12 or so.

The Outrider title would stay the same, but allow you to add a canon to the upgrade bar.

Either title could be added to any YT series freighter.

One of those "cool in retrospect" things:

All YT-1300s have the ORS stats, with the unique "Millennium Falcon" title boosting the attack by 1, hull by 2, and shields by 1. And adds an evade action to the title bar. The cost would be (say) 12 or so.

I'd go with "or so". +1 Attack alone is worth roughly 7. Hull Upgrades are 3 and you can only get one at a time (2 here = 6). Shield Upgrade is 4. Even with some kind of "bulk discount" I think you'd have to be paying at least 15 points.

15 points could be right. Frankly, I just eyeballed the price difference between a Chewy and an ORS, and subtracted Chewy's PS. I may well have missed it.

Looking at it that way, you basically add a Tie Fighter of HP, and half a Tie of fire power. So we should expect at least a Tie's worth of points.

I am more interested in thinking about the Falcon title on the YT 2400 and the Outrider on the YT 1300.

I just cant really see the logic behind it.

The Outer Rim Smuggler is flying a generic YT, the other three pilots are flying the Millenium Falcon.

Why aren't those stat buffs on the title card? Elegance.

I just cant really see the logic behind it.

The Outer Rim Smuggler is flying a generic YT, the other three pilots are flying the Millenium Falcon.

Why aren't those stat buffs on the title card? Elegance.

This is why I feel the Falcon should have been a title to boost the ships stats and all the ships have normal YT-1300 stats.. that way only one falcon could actually be on the table. Each ship flown by the respective named pilots is really a falcon.. I think they dropped the ball there.

I know this debate has been here before, but I still see the 3 named pilots all in a falcon.. but only one gets the evade boost from the title..

At first I would agree. The Falcon title should have been Add 1 to firepower add 1 to Shields and 2 to hull. Your upgrade bar gains the missile slot. However I understood why it was simply add evade to action bar.

Elegance yes but then again all of the stat changing upgrades can get complicated. Especially if you start throwing shield upgrades and hull upgrades. There is also the problem about the Tiles having the printed stats. Sure the mentioned upgrade does change the stats a little but that is only 1 stat and only by 1. The stat difference between is ORS and Chewbacca are 3 different stats and one of them is increased by 2. It is easier just to make two separate pilots with the same stat line.

As for the ORS well I asked if the YT-2400 has made it obsolete and the answer is still no. It is the cheapest turret out the at 27 points and the only bigh ship that is cheaper than the ORS is the shuttle. It is also a skill 1 blocker throw on APL and surround with Ion Cannons for fun. However if they do a scum conversion most of the pilots should have the ORS stats not the Falcon stats, you could give the Scum Lando and give him Falcon stats but that is it the other 2 unique pilots and the generic should be 2 Firepower 1 Agility 4 Shields and 6 hull.

but have honestly become a go-to "Fixit" slot to improve underwhelming ships, with very little meaning for what it is or why they work the way they do.

I agree. Titles are a free upgrade slot that isn't used much, so it's a natural place to put a fix, unless you want part of the balance being the cost of a slot. Like the Refit, or the E2 I think.

But even with the first one, it never made sense.

If Han's ship is better because it's the Millennium Falcon, then why is a ORS with the Millennium Falcon title only throwing 2 attack dice?