With Olcadan's, Chester's backing and LotM gone is fire a viable symbol to play?
Fire has some of the best attacks in the game and can very explosive. It's power is in it's attacks like I Spin, Pommel Smash, gaikishi lunar rebellion, and it has the power attacks like midnight launcher and mighty knee strike for very explosive damage.

It has some crazy foundations such as bounce back, evil plans, fight or flight, savage fight and other crazy damage boost and speed boost which the meta would not be ready for at all. And it has two 0 difficulty foundations in TKD zephyr and and hope for one's people.

I think so. Even before the bannings, I built a Fire Yang deck whose sole purpose was to spam foundations on T1, and then drop Senkyutai + Cobra Blow on T2. Fire has always been the symbol that set up quickly and then knocked you in the mouth. Hard. And, by T2.

I think those bannings just made it easier for Fire to do just that.

I still think it will also be dependent upon which Fire-Character is run, but this can be said about any symbol, really.

Fire's always been "competative" per say, it just needs to kill you QUICK! Look at last Thursday Shajir, when my Leona deck (yes that lovable 8/14 toon, without Rejections) was plastering your Akuma deck and Andrew's Zhao Daiyu deck all along the walls.

In the end it all depends on the fire build it seems. You almost HAVE to go for a 7HS+ toon, as you need to be able to build increadibly quick so your second turn, in which you start beating the holy hell outta your opponant doesn't cause you to overextend, in case you can't kill them.

The one other thing that is either nifty or suicidal, depending on how you look at it is this: You NEED to run 2 checks in your Fire deck. Mine runs:

3x Reverse Flayer- The ability to push it through is stupid easy, and it's enhance, coupled with the fact that the average fire attack that is played is 5 damage, makes it great.

4x Gyashiki Lunar Rebellion- Now with Olcadan's gone, I may quickly be running outta targets with it's enhance... But with Seal and Wonderworld Warriors still around, it'll stay in there for now.

2x Ira Spinta- The only throw in the deck, and it's only there to deal with problem foundations. The one perk though, is that I can just pump it up with Commitment to Excellence to at least make it a threatening throw.

Fire has probably one of the BEST and most underrated cards in the meta at the moment in Bounce Back. You should've seen my match against the Evil/Chaos Zhao Daiyu deck. I had two Bounce Backs out and managed to get +8 speed to my current attack even after one was blown up and the other was commited

And finally the great thing about fire, although it's less prevalent now that the Birdman is gone is that much like Air 6 check decks, you don't care if your foundations get blown up. They're there to pass checks and give out speed pumps. THAT'S it Oh yeah, and Manifest Destiny is kinda nice too >.>

Intimidating Presence is an obscenely good card, especially for symbols that can spam foundations like Fire can. I know Fred won a regional with an Akuma deck that basically spammed a pile of foundations, then used Spinta + Intimidating Presence + Akuma hack / Seclusion to keep you from getting a decent board presence, and won with Stand Off'd Melancholic Mercurius-es, and I built a slightly aggressive Death Donovan (Shadow Blade <3) that, in a couple games, managed to use Presence to nuke my almost all of opponent's staging area. I can imagine it would be even nastier with 0/5s (I only had Saikyo for a 0drop), several good 6 checks

Speaking of Death, I see it as (more or less) Fire's more control-oriented brother, and it has one of my favorite cards right now, Cursed Blood to help out the tempo game even more. Card is sooooo good.

to answer the op yes. fire may be the forth best symbol with the bannings. we will have to wait until after nats hapens, and the bans take effect to see how good fire can be.

I am thinking about running fire zi mei or fire alex for nationals with an attack line up i spins, mid night launcher, knight breakers and fury of the ancients for zi mei and something similar for alex, and the deck would have a bit of destruction via breakers and i spin's and just finish you with fury of the ancients+zi mei. Fire can spam soo much aswell and has tons of defense vs olcadan's.

Honestly with the inclusion of MaC and the fact Tag Along is run in EVERY deck that has one of it's symbols, Promo Alex is starting to lose steam. You'd be better off with Zi Mei, Akuma, Leona (yes she's good!), or Yang

You should also run Zi Mei bc you get the awesome death E on Knight breaker as well.

I wouldn't use knight breaker in a deck that doesn't have death, I am not a fan of the combo ability and rarely ever use it.

Mark of the Beast is a mid weapon by the way. Mark of the Beast + Midnight Launcher + Ira Spinta + Dragon's Flame. Mmmmm. Tasty lineup. Not to mention Spinta fuels mark of the beast's E.

Mark of the Beast is quite savage!!! Very glad it got the reprint!

Eithinis said:

this idea may have to be stolen

riotmaker said:

To be honest, and since we're specifically talking Fire, I think Zi Mei's 3 Rites are a better attack line up than the ML + KB set up, imo.

In fact, Zi Mei's entire attack line-up is really wicked!! Fury of the Ancients + The Rites = GG!

sir_shajir said:

When I met Scuba, I talked to him about his Fire Zi Mei, and he pretty much said Evil worked better.

How bout this? Wait to use Fire Zi Mei til AFTER Nats, so that you don't have to worry about the to-be-banned cards.

I don't really want to say anything about Fire because I'd rather not get into another lively debate.

Fire is in UFS limbo. I've said it over and over again. Akuma is the best Fire character, period.

Followed closely by Fire Yang, imo.

Post bannings, it will become a better symbol with it's smash-face style. Not great, but it can definitely win you some games.

Here's the biggest reason why: Blinding Rage and Makai High Noble, while good for the stats, all of a sudden became less staple and more side-board. Tell me how often you told yourself the only reason you ran those cards was to stop Olcadan's. Now you have potentially 7-8 foundation slots to work with instead of wasting them on anti-olcadan's.

Spinta doesn't belong in every fire deck. I've said it before and I'll say it again. It definitely belongs in Fire Akuma, and his abuse of A New Low along with it make it great.

It doesn't belong in any fire deck, but i'm inclined to say Mark of the Beast + Dragon's Flame almost does. with bitter rivals still around, that's some pain comin through.

Also, akuma IS definitely one of the top fire characters. I don't know that i really think he's the best, but he's certainly up there.

Zi Mei, Yang, and Akuma, i think are the three kings (and queen) of fire right now. Yang's ability to negate rejection is just too huge. Zi Mei's passive damage pump and commital of problem cards--control build into aggro--is ridiculous. Akuma is just gross, and we know this.

Evil Zi Mei lost a bit of it's power recently, as we all know, and we're talking post-banning, so I really think fire can compete with it, especially with it's ability to run fury of the ancients.

Also consider how many of the "base" attacks are run, and how many of these can be manifested off the characters:

Akuma and Zi Mei have evil, so they work very will with midnight launcher, reverse flayer, and knight breaker.

Yang, on the other hand, has life and death, again, he works very well with Midnight Launcher, and Knight Breaker, however, i still like a few different lineups with him; I really think that Dragon's Flame is the best fire finisher, it outmatches Knight Breaker in every way except for the fact that Knight Breaker has death. Sure, the death E is great, it's fantastic, but the combo E off Mark of the Beast + Midnight Launcher + Dragon's Flame is pewpew, +11. attack turns of something like Spinta -> Mark -> ML -> Dragon's Flame, it gets even higher.

*Shrug* I think they're all great, but i don't know that akuma is the be all end all fire character.

My current fire akuma deck is the most controling build I have ever made. On fire. Control.

It's totally still aggro (10 attacks, 18 two checks), but oh my god can it lock someone out.

Protoaddict said:

4 Cobra Blow and 4 Yoga Adept?

Cascade said:

probably 4 ira-spintas as well but im curious as to what the other attacks are

18 2's... jeez

I bet if you played a game with Kirk, you'd make even him blush a little

You sure you didn't typo there? 'Cause I cannot for the life of me find 2 different 2cc non-attacks worth running by any stretch, on any of Akuma's symbols

Cobra Blow's action side and Yoga Adept ARE good cards Waffle...

...not exactly in Akuma, but hey, mix it up eh?

Also, IMO, aggro and 10 attacks cannot be in the same sentence, protoaddict.

MarcoPulleaux said:

AGREE.

Although...

My fire adon deck only ran like 12. >_>

But that was like, chainthrow, 8th bill, jackknife kick, jumping shotei in some builds, senkyutai in others, etc. and 3 challenge the masters.

Really? No Widow Maker?

Right...that's what I was forgetting. Although i didn't run full playsets, i ran like 4chain throws, 3 8th bills, 2 widowmakers (because I only owned 2, sadly), and 4 jackknife kicks, so it was 13. I toyed with some builds running senkyutai when negation was strong, and some weenie builds, with jumping shotei

Fire Zi Mei.

Pommel Smash. Ira Spinta. Midnight Launcher. Fury of the Ancients (Mark of the Beast in the sideboard)

It is seriously one of the most ridiculous attack line ups you can be running right now. Turn 2 all over the place.