Oh, and go take it up with the people who assert that it's the X-wing that's the most UP ship now.

Did the Y-wing get a buff when I wasn't looking?

Scum and Villainy will introduce some new Y-wing cards. Finally, my ridiculous love for this ship will be rewarded.

Its been said before, but it bears repeating.

In a direct, one for one comparison, I think Imperial looks better than Rebels. However, Rebels have a lot of synergies and abilities that don't calculate well in a direct comparison.

Along with the synergies, the rebels have much more ability to customize their ships through, two of the most versatile fighters in the game in that regard (Bwing and Ewing), and arguably some of the better crew choices.

The OP mentioned Autothrusters as a boost for imperials, but A-wings will love them just as much.

Yes but the OP said the awing is not good with only 2 attacks. Since refit me and my mate are flying awings in almost all our lists. We even go as far in saying the awing is the best ship out there for it's point cost, it has the best dial in the game (it has a green five), two shield, two hull, three evade and a boost action. All of this for just 15 points makes it for me the best ship in the game.

Oh, and go take it up with the people who assert that it's the X-wing that's the most UP ship now.

Did the Y-wing get a buff when I wasn't looking?

Scum and Villainy will introduce some new Y-wing cards. Finally, my ridiculous love for this ship will be rewarded.

.... How on earth did I forget about those?

Until the Imps get Lando crew, I'm going to side with the Rebels...

Best 3 pts. I've ever spent.

-Cal

The bomber is now likely the worst ship in the Meta.

Hey! Lay off my Bomber!!

I don't think so. I fly TONS of bomber lists. My locals ask me if I'm feeling well if I don't have a majority of my list consisting of bombers. I might say that it's the least appreciated ship, but I know there are quite a few people who have the same bomber love I do. Oh, and go take it up with the people who assert that it's the X-wing that's the most UP ship now.

I'm not saying it's an awful ship, it's just nearly every other ship considered weak is getting a boost in the next two waves leaving the bomber the odd man out. The days of empire being the only ships w bombs is long gone and even an improved prox mine is far from being a super competitive option. I still like the bomber and it has its niche. However the bomber is the fat guy in the race to the finish line.

IMHO Merek is the best adv pilot in game after this fix. You can't beat rolling two atk die adding a free crit and then fishing the damage deck for a direct hit to add another hit. Give him predator and feel free to reroll any blanks you have.

Finally, three pages to get through all the baloney and we've got some real discussion!

I agree that a wings are good in certain rolls. 15 point blockers have been great for me in recent builds, perhaps even rivalling Academy pilot for the best small blocker roll. The three extra points is not a small consideration though, it's a quarter of the ap total cost.

As flankers, though, a wings just don't cut it. Psycho tycho and arvel are fun to play, sure, but they just cost too much once properly suited up. They'll never compete with soontir.

Revels have awesome crew cards but not much option for ships to carry them. The falcon is obviously a great ship but it's more than half your points. Firespray is a phenomenal, well rounded ship that can take a crew.

Also, as concerns crew, we'll have to see what the new raider crew cards are. Yiu can bet palatine will be amazing, and I'm sure there'll be lots more.

Rebel captive is probably my favourite crew card in the game. Synergy doesn't mean much when you're stressed and can't get actions

I have only read page 1. Someone can pm me if there is actual conversation beyond there.

I have 3 word for you¦ Ha. Ha. Ha.

-----------------------------------

Oh, you were being serious?

Oh, and go take it up with the people who assert that it's the X-wing that's the most UP ship now.

Did the Y-wing get a buff when I wasn't looking?

I actually thought you were joking hahaha. But yes the cards are real haha.

Along with the synergies, the rebels have much more ability to customize their ships through, two of the most versatile fighters in the game in that regard (Bwing and Ewing), and arguably some of the better crew choices.

I think the rebels' strength of powerful upgrades is better on paper than it is in actuality. They do seem to have better upgrades and upgrade categories like a astromechs, better crew, turret weapons, and synergistic pilot abilities but these are almost always expensive and require pouring points into making them work. I totally get and appreciate that this is the beauty of the balance between the two sides. I enjoy subtly tweaking rebel lists in order to maximize a synergistic relationship without starving it of necessary upgrades so that it falls apart too quickly.

Droid upgrades as an example look great but often don't justify the cost in applying them to already-too-expensive e wings, delicate x-wings, or toothless y wings (until the scum huff arrives. Hopefully)

The OP mentioned Autothrusters as a boost for imperials, but A-wings will love them just as much.

A wings will benefit from Autothrusters, sure but not nearly as much as interceptors.

A wings have always already been tougher than the Interceptor. They've had 2 more total hit points, and two shields. This is a huge difference for a flanker given the way crits usually play out . I don't have any numbers, but from experience an a wing usually takes the first serious shot on the chin and can continue to fight, whereas interceptors are relatively-easily one spotted or crippled from a crit off the first good shot they take.

Where interceptors made up for this defensively was with arc-dodging ability due to barrel roll, which a wings can't do. It was a great trade off: maneuverabulity Vs toughness.

Offensively, interceptors have always been superior. It seems like ffg originally conceived of missiles being much more effective than they are - evidenced by how both the a wing and advanced were underpowered and the first ships to be given a boost. I think the chardan refit plus double ept and the proton rockets were both efforts to directly address this firepower shortcoming for a wings, but these didn't quite bring the ship up to the level of an Interceptor, or if they did, it was by making their cost too high.

As it was, the a wings defensive superiority was equalled by the interceptors maneuverabulity advantage, so defensively they were approximately equal. The boosts to a wing offence I don't think were effective in ameliorating the offensively superiority of the Interceptor. And now they are both given a defensive boost which shores up the shortcomings of the Interceptor, while not offering nearly the same benefit to the a wing. This card will directly fix an acute weakness of interceptors and only offer a more general improvement to the a wings already-good resiliency.

Yes. Empire is overpowered, but so are Rebels. And don't even get me started on Scum! I've heard they are even more overpowered than current factions, because of reasons and stuff.

What a terrible design job on FFG's side, making everything so freakin overpowered.

All factions are created op, but some are more pp than others.

3 agi good 2 agi better

I think the rebels' strength of powerful upgrades is better on paper than it is in actuality. They do seem to have better upgrades and upgrade categories like a astromechs, better crew, turret weapons, and synergistic pilot abilities but these are almost always expensive and require pouring points into making them work.

The same is the case for the Imperials. Outside of Howlrunner and his swarm, the only way to make Imperial ships effective enough to field is through upgrades. Interceptors have always needed PTL, and only recently have other upgrades shown themselves as rivals. Bombers need bombs and Phantoms without ACD will lose their vaunted manoeuvrability and 4 defence dice, as well as chop their firepower in half. Naked shuttles are worthless and even the Decimator looses much of it's teeth without upgrades

Where interceptors made up for this defensively was with arc-dodging ability due to barrel roll, which a wings can't do. It was a great trade off: maneuverabulity Vs toughness.

On paper, yes. In practice, they were often too fragile for their cost. They were designed to be arc-dodgers, but without PTL, the arc dodging often came at the cost of their firepower (dodging an arc often involves barrel rolling or boosting, which means no focus or target lock).

Which means upgrades were required for interceptors to perform as intended. Upgrades that demanded you to take an interceptor with a base cost of 21 at the lowest. They still need upgrades now, but there are upgrades that can be taken on lower point ships.

I'm not complaining...

Yes you are.

Along with the synergies, the rebels have much more ability to customize their ships through, two of the most versatile fighters in the game in that regard (Bwing and Ewing), and arguably some of the better crew choices.

I think the rebels' strength of powerful upgrades is better on paper than it is in actuality. They do seem to have better upgrades and upgrade categories like a astromechs, better crew, turret weapons, and synergistic pilot abilities but these are almost always expensive and require pouring points into making them work. I totally get and appreciate that this is the beauty of the balance between the two sides. I enjoy subtly tweaking rebel lists in order to maximize a synergistic relationship without starving it of necessary upgrades so that it falls apart too quickly.

Droid upgrades as an example look great but often don't justify the cost in applying them to already-too-expensive e wings, delicate x-wings, or toothless y wings (until the scum huff arrives. Hopefully)

The OP mentioned Autothrusters as a boost for imperials, but A-wings will love them just as much.

A wings will benefit from Autothrusters, sure but not nearly as much as interceptors.

A wings have always already been tougher than the Interceptor. They've had 2 more total hit points, and two shields. This is a huge difference for a flanker given the way crits usually play out . I don't have any numbers, but from experience an a wing usually takes the first serious shot on the chin and can continue to fight, whereas interceptors are relatively-easily one spotted or crippled from a crit off the first good shot they take.

Where interceptors made up for this defensively was with arc-dodging ability due to barrel roll, which a wings can't do. It was a great trade off: maneuverabulity Vs toughness.

Offensively, interceptors have always been superior. It seems like ffg originally conceived of missiles being much more effective than they are - evidenced by how both the a wing and advanced were underpowered and the first ships to be given a boost. I think the chardan refit plus double ept and the proton rockets were both efforts to directly address this firepower shortcoming for a wings, but these didn't quite bring the ship up to the level of an Interceptor, or if they did, it was by making their cost too high.

As it was, the a wings defensive superiority was equalled by the interceptors maneuverabulity advantage, so defensively they were approximately equal. The boosts to a wing offence I don't think were effective in ameliorating the offensively superiority of the Interceptor. And now they are both given a defensive boost which shores up the shortcomings of the Interceptor, while not offering nearly the same benefit to the a wing. This card will directly fix an acute weakness of interceptors and only offer a more general improvement to the a wings already-good resiliency.

Well thought out, but I disagree on both points.

With regard to rebel flexibility, two small ship tactician lists made it to Worlds (both rebels). I don't think the Imperials have this kind of option. Along those lines, thanks to R3-A2 (stress droid), and y-wings with turret options (Imperials still don't have turret upgrades, btw) the rebels can put together a variety of competitive control builds (two of such made the cut at World's). Imperials have access to control tech but it's nowhere near as effective.

Rebels also have much better access to some stacking options like 3PO/R2D2/Lando, or Kyle and Jan combos that are incredibly efficient on their best ships, the YTs. Then you have Jan Ors HWK who also powered two lists to World's. I think there are plenty of examples that are good on paper and in game, but the ones above are the most obvious examples of upgrades and rebel synergy to make competitive lists that the rebels have that the Empire can't just pull off by combining cards with the exception of Howlrunner. The next best thing that they have since Wave 5 came out is Isard with Determination on Kenkirk.

As for autothrusters being better for interceptors, I understand your point but it's missing a key idea in squad building: cost efficient cards that improve upon a strength that the ship already has are sometimes the most effective types of cards (See the notion of R2D2 and 3PO on a healthy heavy falcon, putting a 4 attack turret on a ship with hypermobility, etc...),. So, autothrusters is actually a more cost effective upgrade on an A-wing because the A-wing will get more use out of it thanks to it's more native health. The A-wing is also the cheaper ship. A green with Predator/Outmaneuver+ VI + autothrusters is 23 points. With PTL it's 25 points. Both of these are cheaper, more resilient, and nearly as offensively viable as their counterparts in the imperial navy (Saber with PTL+autothrusters is 26).

After approximately 6 months of "OMG C3-PO HAN TURRETS OP ARRGH" whinefests, I for one welcome our new Imperial overlords.

Ideally this game should aim to have the mechanics that StarCraft introduced. One of the beautiful things about the original StarCraft and on through today is that there are not two but *three* playable races, each with their own characteristics and strengths and weaknesses but beyond that, absolutely on equal footing with each other. You don't play Terrans like you play Protoss and neither can you play Zerg like you play Terrans. Players have to get innovative, be creative with the resources on hand. Blizzard did an *amazing* job balancing out the three powers and that's one of the biggest reasons why the original is still played today more than 15 years later.

I see FFG doing this with X-Wing. Are things balanced now? No. Rebels are ridiculously overpowered in so many areas (C-3PO *does* need adjusting, and choosing 0 constantly is against the flavor of the character anyway). But FFG *is* aware of the issues with the game and are going above and beyond making this a game where Rebels, Imperials and soon S&V will each be balanced more or less, yet have totally different playing styles from each other. And that's the way it should be.

As a primarily Imperial player who has wanted balance and wanted a distinctive feel from my faction, I'm very pleased with the direction FFG is going. Can't wait to field my 4 TIE Advanceds

I have the real feeling that if certain things could be patched the way Blizzard patches SC2, Fantasy Flight would do so for a few items. Start with named Rebel Y-Wing pilots having elite slots, and moving from there.

4 blue Bs kill pretty much anything..nuff said...

I'm not complaining...

Yes you are.

Nope. Take this as an opportunity to make yourself a better reader. Go back and re-read my post. If you need any help with big words, just let me know and I'll see if I can't dumb it down for you.

I'm not complaining...

Yes you are.

Nope. Take this as an opportunity to make yourself a better reader. Go back and re-read my post. If you need any help with big words, just let me know and I'll see if I can't dumb it down for you.

Alright, down kids... It's still early. Let's nip it in the bud before it gets any further...

Lando + YT2400 is a beast if you ask me (which no one did), and I'm dying to put him on a B-Wing...

I have played Empire the majority of the games I have played since owning this game, and the times I did fly Rebel I found it easier to put together competitive/synergistic builds that ripped apart the Imperials.

Imperials IMO are finally starting to get some equalizers, especially with the Phantom and Defender. The game is where it needs to be IMO. Fact of the matter is that while all the theorycrafting is good, you never really know what you're going to be facing at the table until points are spent.

Or not.

-Cal