I started out a mostly rebel player. Now it seems with the release of Autothrusters and the advanced fix, rebels no longer have any particular strength. I find myself struggling to come up with solid rebel lists, the imps seem to do most things that the rebels can at least as good or better, and also do many things rebels just can't.

Academy pilots are the best small base blockers in the game with their excellent dials, 3 agility, low pilot skill, low cost and barrel roll and evade actions. From there, night beast, howlrunner, dark curse, mauler mithel and Backstabber are very useful ships for only a few more points. Compared to the two agility, 2 action headhunter rebel equivalent, tie fighters are much better at almost everything.

Interceptors are amazing, and now that they have Autothrusters, will surge against the turret counters revels have had to rely on just to stand a chance against them. On the rebel side, a wings can never be as effective with their paltry 2 attack dice, even with double epts and autothrusters. They'll simply never have to be worried about as flankers to the same degree tge three attack interceptors will.

B wings and x wings can be compared to defenders and the newly buffed advanced, where again the rebels come up quite short. The x wing has great potential - many pilot abilities are great, and astromechs are very good upgrades, but they are just too delicate to justify the points required to kit one out effectively in most cases. Defenders are murderous, if greatly underestimated and misunderstood by many.

The b wing remains strong for the rebels but also suffers from being easily destroyed or ioned, while the advanced will now do better damage every turn, has a better dial, the same actions plus evade and two more agility dice, all for merely sacrificing a few shields and a hull point, which melt quickly on the b wing anyway, being backed by such low agility and no evade potential.

For 36 points, a bounty hunter with rebel captive or recon spec is a real monster, lacking any equivalent on the rebel side. The lambda shuttle is an absolute bargain for a three attack wide-arc ship and the decimator is a fearsome three attack turret - a role which used to be the last rebel advantage, though the firespray came awfully close with its rear arc, anyway.

Y wings are due for a boost, sure, but it seems like rebels need a wings and x wings seriously improved to even approach equal strength with the empire. E wings are strong but way overpriced, the yts are both strong currently but are soon to be neutered by the advanced and Autothrusters, and the phantom continues it's reign of terror. Even without the phantom, the empire is clearly stronger than the rebels and the phantom is the only mlswrately-priced ship in the game which can and frequently does wipe out an entire opposing squadron.

I'm not complaining, I still enjoy building rebel lists and know how to find success with them, but the options are much fewer than those available to the imps. It seems like the philosophy of improving rebels has been to allow more and better upgrades on ships, which does make them stronger but also drives the cost up. Meanwhile the empire has the still-relevant tie swarm at one end of the spectrum and the arc-dodging, one-shot specialist phantom at the other, plus all points in between covered in spades.

NERD, NERD, NERD!

*sitting back and eating popcorn*

Sounds like a sky is falling proclamation to me. I'll just say, no. The imps aren't OP and won't be OP once these new upgrades drop. I'd say if anything a lot of these changes, are much needed to give some ships point once more ( advanced and Squints ). I believe the Flacon is better then the decimator, though its very good to have a large ship with a turret finally. I wouldn't worry about it, as Rebels still have and I am guessing will maintain the Lions share of turrets and plenty of oomph.

I will also say that the advanced fix and auto thrusters are still what, anywhere from 3 months to half a year away. I can imagine feeling fear because things change, just be sure it isn't just fear of change.

Well, given the Rebel:Imperial ratio at Worlds, your theory seems to lack an empirical component. Let's just see where we are when the Store Championships happen, and we'll see if what you're saying has any merit.

I think you're quite overselling my position. I said I'm not complaining, and I still enjoy rebels but the viable lists they can field don't fairly compare. Hardly sky is falling stuff.

I don't have any strong allegiance to either faction, but it seems obvious to me that the empire has a much more varied bag of tricks. Best cheapest ship, the phantom is without equal, and I'd agree that the falcon is better than the decimator, but not by much and only until Autothrusters comes along.

Well, given the Rebel:Imperial ratio at Worlds, your theory seems to lack an empirical component. Let's just see where we are when the Store Championships happen, and we'll see if what you're saying has any merit.

Well have to wait til first quarter of 2015 to fairly appraise my statements, assuming the new releases are on schedule.

The topic is "becoming " stronger, remember

Wow. Just wow.

Fat Han.

QQ dude QQ

How are autothrusters going to make the deci better than the falcon? Seems they would effect a deci equally. You may claim to not be complaining...but your post sure comes off as complaining. We have only seen the adv fix for about 24 hours and already the filthy rebellion "cant compete." The shuttle is about as manuverable as a rock and the deci HAS NO AGILITY (not counting one pilot once certain recs are met.)

Lets wait and see what else comes out. The filthy rebellion still has the superior crew options and IMHO the superior pilot abilities in general (as they should...we imps prefer to be faceless.)

Dash is still laughing at the empire.

*sitting back and eating popcorn*

I love bacon! (can we skip straight to the breakfast part of these kinds of threads?)

Oh stop it.. the sky is right where it always is... sigh.. why do they always do this.... smh

....

I. You're trolling right? Because you were a decent forum user I thought I encountered pretty often.

Sometimes you know trolling can have adverse side effects. Like me never checking this thread again to see if you're serious or not and just having negative associations about your name forever after.

I think you're quite overselling my position. I said I'm not complaining, and I still enjoy rebels but the viable lists they can field don't fairly compare. Hardly sky is falling stuff.

That's hilarious. Every tournament I have been to has had more rebel lists than imperial in the top 10 (at a ratio of probably 2:1 at least). Since wave 4 that has been getting worse. Honestly, are you trolling? The recent announcements for Imperials might, hopefully, get them back somewhere near parity. Until then though we will still be swimming through the hordes of YTs and Bwings.

see heres the other thing about trolling: It should be funny for the rest of us. (Unless you're a self-pleasing pri--) This isn't. By any means.

Astromech Driods.

Most of them are insane. you say rebels are loosing their flavor, I'm saying they have nothing to worry about.

you feel the X and B wings aren't good? i might not have played many games, but I'm pretty sure b wings with HLC are pretty **** good.

Not sure i agree with you on academy pilots being the best. the z95 bare bones dude is the same cost, does give up an evade, but has a better maneuvering dial, 2 shield and 2 hull, and spits out the same firepower with one higher piloting skill. seems pretty good and maybe even better at the same points value.

you say interceptors are amazing, but they are REALLY expensive for an A wing with one less attack dice, no shields (which are clearly better than hull in EVERY case) and outside of Soontir Fel, i have yet to hear of interceptors seeing lots of use, although it is worth mentioning that i am new and am learning as fast as i can.

i cant say i agree with E wings as being overcosted either. Corrine horn is a monster and their other named pilots aren't bad either.

The firespray 31 is an ok ship, but remember, its not as durable as the rebellion counter parts, either in stats of the upgrades you can give it.

the lambda is good, don't get me wrong, but you do understand that a b wing by itself is almost its match and far more agile on the field and arc dodging a shuttle isn't impossible by any means. the lambda is a 5 hull 5 shield monster, the b wing has 5 shield and 3 hull (or 3 shield and 5 hull, cant remember right now).

lets not even talk about upgrades and about personal. 3PO, R2, Luke, Lando, Chewie, and frankly, the list goes on for miles...

i know you said you weren't complaining, but thats like saying "with all due respect", saying that doesn't exonerate you of the statements your making or what their meaning is, and in your post, it sounded like a lot of complaining.

Well, given the Rebel:Imperial ratio at Worlds, your theory seems to lack an empirical component. Let's just see where we are when the Store Championships happen, and we'll see if what you're saying has any merit.

It sounds like after Wave 5 there are more imperial lists. Remember Worlds was Rebel Aces and Wave 4 only.

Remember when the Imperial players were complaining about their lack of content and apparent lower overall competitive rank? Remeber what all the Rebel players told them?

theres something else to be said about ignoring all the relevant tournament data though. and also ludicrous comparisons that defy logick.

I kinda like the idea of the Imperials being overpowered compared to Rebel ships. I believe it will force Rebel commanders to devise different tactics to combat Imp builds. I also think it adds a bit of realism to the game. The Rebels always went into battles outnumbered and outgunned.

I'm excited about the new Imp epic ship. The Rebels don't really have a designated bomber so I'll be interested to see how the B and Y wings fare against it.

I read another thread about the X-Wing now being the "worst ship in the game" and I disagree.

The X-Wing is still a very formidable weapon platform. The use of 3 attack dice, quite a few astro droids with AWESOME abilities and outstanding pilots (more then any other ship in the game). Lets face it, you get an X-Wing at range 1 of most TIE's and you have a chance at a 1 roll kill.

Well the Y-wing will be getting a bomber role with the bomb load-out and the title enabling it to shoot twice.

In answer to one side being OP: read previous threads about this and fill in appropiate faction names for the OP-faction and the 'poor' faction which needs help.

Can't wait untill Villainy-fans are going to do this too! :-D

*WINK*

So, I understand the nature of forums, and that anonymity breeds hyperbole.

I am quite sure it doesn't meet the definition of "trolling" but I do acknowledge that this thread may be very slightly sensational or mildly inflamatory. It's an effort to stimulate conversation. I haven't said anything I don't mean, nor attacked anyone, but I think people are reading too much into the impact of my post rather than its intended message.

I think there's an interesting conversation to be had about overall balance and differentiation between factions. Rebels used to have the market cornered on action economy - particularly focus, 3 attack turrets, tough and high-attack brawlers in the b wings while empire had cheap swarm able ties, high maneuverabulity flankers and bombs. Those differences are less today and soon will be gone, but in such a way that the empire does almost all of them thst much better. It'd a good time to fly with imperial, and this trend will improve.

Discuss

Rebels corner the team work market, Imperials corner the loner market, and Scum corner the disruption market.

but in such a way that the empire does almost all of them thst much better. It'd a good time to fly with imperial, and this trend will improve.

This is the bit you've got utterly wrong. Rebels have two chunky turreted ships in the falcon and the outrider. Imperials have the decimator, but that is nowhere near as good as either of the rebel options, because with no agility it's comparatively easy to kill- the rebels have access to options like C3P0, R2D2, Chewie etc- the Imperial alternatives (Ysard, Jerjerrod) are good but not as good.

If it wasn't for the falcon and outrider, it would probably be a wash between the two factions- but those two mean it is not close at this point.

As far as synergy goes- the Imperials have a couple of options (like fleet officer) but rebels have Garven, Jan Ors, Kyle Katarn, Dutch, Cracken... Every second rebel seems to be passing actions.

About the only thing the Imps do better at this point is arc-dodging, and we all know how well that works against turrets. Autothrusters should, hopefully, restore a little parity for interceptors but I very much doubt it will shift the balance of power the other way (and we won't really know that until there has been more time for them to be tested competitively).