It would be nice to replace things or for a piece set you want. It would even be nice if they put together a compendium set, something that included cards / tokens from a range of sets. Like a Wave 1 Rebel / Imperial Compendium for example would include all the cards, tokens, missions, etc. that were included with all the ships in the Wave 1 release, just without the ships.

It would be great for people to get their hands on stuff they may have missed (I dunno about you guys, but not every shop is overstocked with Xwing goods in my neighborhoods), or replace stuff that was damaged, missing, or lost.

Nothing's going to stop people bootlegging what they don't want to pay for anyways.

Like a Wave 1 Rebel / Imperial Compendium for example would include all the cards, tokens, missions, etc. that were included with all the ships in the Wave 1 release, just without the ships.

And would be in competition with the ships.

this is hands down the most affordable mini wargame I have ever played or even seen...

The you've never played Star Wars Miniatures, D&d miniatures, or battle tech. This game isn't the most expensive but it's not the cheapest, either.

Pfft. SWM or any WotC game cheaper? No, no it really isn't. No blind buy game is.

Like a Wave 1 Rebel / Imperial Compendium for example would include all the cards, tokens, missions, etc. that were included with all the ships in the Wave 1 release, just without the ships.

And would be in competition with the ships.

And it would still be profitable for FFG to sell.

Like a Wave 1 Rebel / Imperial Compendium for example would include all the cards, tokens, missions, etc. that were included with all the ships in the Wave 1 release, just without the ships.

And would be in competition with the ships.

And it would still be less profitable for FFG to sell.

Fixed that for you.

Two things.

First the idea that X-Wing's entry point being too high is simply absurd. There are few if any games out there that will give you as many lists per $ then X-Wing.

Sure the price per model may be higher, but that is also the most worthless stat to consider there is. Sure you can get space marines for $7.22 per model, or a US Rifle company for Flames of War for as little as $1.68 per model. But you still are going to spend more on a list for those games then you would for X-Wing, because those games require a ton more models than X-Wing does.

In 40k a 1500 point list is the same as a 100 point X-Wing list, yet my 1500 point Space Marine list would cost me $832 today. I haven't spent $800 on my whole X-Wing collection.

Even less expensive games like Warmachine, Mailufaux or Infinity still are going to cost more per list then X-Wing does, especially when you figure the cost of other supplies you need, like paint, brushes, ect...

So no anyone claiming that X-Wing is too expensive to pick up simply is full of BS. I'm sure there's people who can't afford it, but that doesn't mean it's too expensive.

Second, FFG had looked at selling singles or card packs for X-Wing and has said they won't be doing it. So the only people who can really comment on if that makes sense or not has done so and said they won't.

That of course is subject to change, and myself I'd like to see it, because there's cards out there I want and I won't buy another Shuttle for the sake of a card or two. But as much as I may like it, I can see why it may not make sense, and given FFG's statement I think we can safely say it's not going to happen any time soon.

Like a Wave 1 Rebel / Imperial Compendium for example would include all the cards, tokens, missions, etc. that were included with all the ships in the Wave 1 release, just without the ships.

And would be in competition with the ships.

And it would still be less profitable for FFG to sell.

Fixed that for you.

No, you didn't fix it. Those cards are printed for pennies and sold for dollars. They can be sold w/o the ships and still make money for them. People will buy the ships because they want the ships, or buy what they want. Increasing the availability of the cards does not affect the demand for the ships.

Increasing the availability of the cards does not affect the demand for the ships.

Yes it does. Because I know of a number of people who have bought Shuttles for the sake of the Advanced Sensor card. If they could of just bought the card, they wouldn't of bought 4 shuttles.

You can try and argue that FFG may of find a price point in which selling the cards would offset the loss of sales of ships... Apparently FFG has in fact looked at it and couldn't find a way to make it work.

But I can for a fact that selling card only would affect the sale of ships.

No, you didn't fix it. Those cards are printed for pennies and sold for dollars. They can be sold w/o the ships and still make money for them. People will buy the ships because they want the ships, or buy what they want. Increasing the availability of the cards does not affect the demand for the ships.

Except that the printing cost is only a small part of the cost that goes into what you pay for any card/ship. After all, all those people who designed the cards and ships need to be paid, along with all of the people who support them so that they can do their jobs. Then there's art, advertising, etc. If FFG is making money hand over fist, it isn't because cards are cheap to print.

Second, FFG had looked at selling singles or card packs for X-Wing and has said they won't be doing it. So the only people who can really comment on if that makes sense or not has done so and said they won't.

Increasing the availability of the cards does not affect the demand for the ships.

Yes it does. Because I know of a number of people who have bought Shuttles for the sake of the Advanced Sensor card. If they could of just bought the card, they wouldn't of bought 4 shuttles.

You can try and argue that FFG may of find a price point in which selling the cards would offset the loss of sales of ships... Apparently FFG has in fact looked at it and couldn't find a way to make it work.

But I can for a fact that selling card only would affect the sale of ships.

Source your fact then.

If people don't want to buy something they won't buy something. People can / will proxy cards or ships for whatever they don't want to buy. This isn't allowed in tournament play, but this doesn't stop people from doing something in non-tourn play styles.

I have ships that I acquired missing pieces. I'm not buying another ship to get the one or two cards I need, I find them online and use them.

What I had initially said was to release a compendium set, which would include cards released in the respective waves. There is no evidence to support that that wouldn't be fine and no evidence the other way either. I'm proposing an idea, that you want to come at me with "fact" when none exists does not structure your argument or devalue mine.

Have you ever played any of FFG's LCGs? The small packs contain a lot of cards. Every pilot in the game so far I don't think would make one.

If they continue with this recent vein of selling more upgrades than the ships that come in the expansion, I think we'll be good.

Now if only they'd put Draw Their Fire, Engine Upgrade, and Stealth Device on another ship...

Group 1 - X-Wing players who want cards they don't have or don't have enough of, so buy ships they don't want just to get those cards.

Group 2 - X-Wing players who want cards they don't have or don't have enough of, but cannot justify buying ships they don't want just to get those cards. The reason could either be limited budget, or they simply can't justify the cost to themselves.

There are a few ways FFG could make cards available to purchase without having to buy the ships. Either single cards direct from their website, card packs of all cards available from one ship (i.e. an A-Wing card pack with all upgrade cards from the A-Wing expansion) or a larger card pack of all cards available either from an entire Wave, or from one faction of a wave. My personal opinion is that, if one of those three options were going to happen, then the middle option would be best from a business standpoint since the price point would be higher than for single cards and gamers can't cherry-pick just the cards they want, and with the third option, Group 2 might still see the price point as too high for "just" upgrade cards . Two things are likely to happen:

Group 1 would buy less ships but every ship not bought would be replaced by a card pack purchase. This is lost revenue.

Group 2 would buy card packs for each ship they want but currently are not buying. This is additional revenue.

Would the extra purchases from Group 2 make up for the loss from Group 1? ​I haven't got a clue. Neither do you. No one will ever know for sure unless FFG do it and then only FFG will know anyway. So all of you stating that FFG would make more/less money by doing this should probably just stop and instead simply voice your opinion of whether you'd like to see it or not. At the end of the day, that's what matters, then FFG can make their own business decisions after consideration of our opinions, which may or may not have any impact whatsoever.

Would I like them to do it? Yes! I am firmly in Group 2. I have never and will never buy a ship just for upgrade cards, unless I think I can recoup the majority of that cost by reselling (which wouldn't be an extra sale for FFG because whoever I resold to would likely have bought the entire ship new anyway if a resale wasn't available). I did this with the Transport and will probably do so with the Raider, but sadly means I won't own the cards from the Tantive or majority of Scum ships unless they become available elsewhere.

One interesting point that we will likely never know, is how much a hypothetical card pack would be in order for FFG to make the same number of $ profit by selling that instead of the full ship, and whether this price point is low enough that gamers would buy the card packs. The cards + packaging (I'm thinking MtG booster pack style packaing [but not random before someone misinterprets that]) would, presumably, be much cheaper to produce than the cards + cardboard + ship + ship painting + ship packaging.

Let's say FFG decide to go down this route and perhaps release a pack of 10 cards for $x here's what would happen...

"Why can't FFG sell card X in a pack with card Y...it's so unfair...I don't want any more card A or card B's, but I'm being forced into buying them in order to get a card C" etc etc.

It's just crazy, no matter what they do someone will find a reason to be unhappy about it.

At the minute, the game appears to be popular and profitable enough that they're continuing their support of it with quality products. There might be the odd time I need to buy an expansion I don't need all of in order to get a bit that I do want. Is that ideal? No of course not. Am I happy enough to continue buying these things in order to support FFG? Yes.

You need to look at your X-Wing spending as a whole. If you feel you're getting value for money then great. If not then move on.

When and where did that happen?

A interview 2 years ago maybe, maybe at gencon.

Source your fact then.

Ummm the number of people here who have come out and said they bought X ship just for the upgrade. Not hard to find if you look.

This isn't allowed in tournament play, but this doesn't stop people from doing something in non-tourn play styles.

And a lot of people play in tournaments, so they have to have the cards.

I'm proposing an idea, that you want to come at me with "fact" when none exists does not structure your argument or devalue mine.

But there are facts. Fact is that people buy expansion packs for the sake of the cards, this is provable because people have said as much.

The fact that upgrade cards drive at least part of the sale of a given expansion is self evident, if that wasn't true then we wouldn't see things like the Tie Advanced fix in the Raider.

Now there will come a time in which no one is really buying more wave 1 ships, at that point a wave 1 card pack may very well make sense. I have suggested as much before myself. But until FFG feels they've reached a point where older ships are no longer selling it won't happen.

I wouldn't mind not being able to buy cards separately, if FFG continuously produced their entire range of products.

That way, I can look at a ship, like the Shuttle, and think "Hey, I'd love some Engine Upgrade on that! Where can I get that card? Oh, the Falcon. Maybe I'll grab one next time I'm in store." Because many places will have Falcons, because businesses can order more in to fulfill their stock demands, and prices will be sane and reasonable. I'd buy the ship, use the card, and also play some games with the Falcon itself, maybe get another Rebel piece to work with it.

Even with stock problems, like they have currently, then I could be sure that within a few months, I might be able to find some store, somewhere, that had a Falcon in stock. And the money I paid for that Falcon would go straight to FFG.

As it is, I've come into the hobby in the last week or two, and I want to play Imperials using, among other things, a Shuttle. I look at it, and think exactly the same as above, and I go to check out stores for a Falcon. You can imagine how that turns out. I then look at the secondary market (which gives FFG no money whatsoever). I'm a UK resident.

The latest Falcon ebay sale went for Eighty Five Pounds. That's One Hundred and Thirty odd Dollars.

Same story with Firesprays, to a slightly lesser extent.

No. Just no. There is no way I'm paying that. A line has to be drawn.

So I would like FFG to reprint at least the cards, if not the model. Given that they are not introducing any more Falcons into circulation, and the only ones being bought are on the secondary market, I do not see how reprinting such cards is detrimental to their bottom line, because they're not selling any Falcons at all to begin with. Selling cards alone would give them nothing but profit for ships that are no longer being created, and maybe the availability of those cards would lead to more sales of current models. If you could easily get the upgrade cards that actually make certain models even function at a competitive level, you would get more of those models sold.

Are they going to? Probably not. Would I like them to? Yes. Is this pointless wishlisting? Yes. Am I just going to proxy everything I need to instead? Yes.

Just FYI, they are reprinting expansions like the falcon. Their production isn't keeping up with demand, but they are reprinting them (and have done so several times). I guess you could argue that reprinting card packs would be quicker but it's kind of a different question.

I would not mind seeing a pack of cards for sale, with new art on it, and more importantly, more mid-range pilots, PS 3s through 5s. I think there is a call or room for midrange pilots and with possible pilot skill slots for each PS range for each ship. I know bomber could use a few midrange pilots. Interceptors have the most pilots of any ship class, then Ties and then possible X-wings.

This is not a call for a fix, but for a few more options to play for each ship class without the added expansion of unique pilots.

I would not mind seeing a pack of cards for sale, with new art on it, and more importantly, more mid-range pilots, PS 3s through 5s. I think there is a call or room for midrange pilots and with possible pilot skill slots for each PS range for each ship. I know bomber could use a few midrange pilots. Interceptors have the most pilots of any ship class, then Ties and then possible X-wings.

This is not a call for a fix, but for a few more options to play for each ship class without the added expansion of unique pilots.

That does rise a good point if they started to make more pilots for ships they could place those in packs with upgrades.

I really do not see them putting out "new" pilot cards. That requires a cardboard die cut base. Printing cardboard counters and die cutting them is the stumbling block. Game companies have to plan those much further in advance, because of the cost involved in having it done correctly, much more than just printing. Talk to any company that has counters done. Normally they plan for several items to be printed and cut at the same time.

They could just sell the booster cards that belong to the ships without the ships.

No. No. No. They have enough problems keeping ships instock. No need to add a bunch if piddilly card packs. Besides with the changes to the way they are doing tournament kits do we need this. PTL is fixing to be common as dirt I think.

They have enough problems keeping ships instock.

I doubt the cards are why they're having issues. It's the models and having them painted, then pass QA that's the biggest holdup.

They have enough problems keeping ships instock.

I doubt the cards are why they're having issues. It's the models and having them painted, then pass QA that's the biggest holdup.

I get the impression it is general inventory management. More SKU will exasberate that issue. The more things to track the more things to have to work into the que to reprint the more things that will get missed. Add that to the new ships that must be produced. So no thank you.