1. You and the other 15 people you want playing shut off your Internet for a year.

2. Buy a bunch of ships each with the money saved.

3. Profit from an expanded player base.

*BONUS* We don't have to hear your whining for a whole year!

How about you turn off your Internet for a year and buy the minis for other peopl instead of making inflammatory personal attacks? Then you still get your "bonus."

Neither I nor FFG is non-profit organization out for the good of mankind. You complain about being poor, so I offered a solution. It just so happens there's a side benefit for me. If you don't like it, oh well, that's not my problem. And if I truly get tired of your complaints (or vice versa), there's always the ignore button.

I never said I was poor. I said making the cards and other components more accessible to people on a budget would be a positive thing for the game overall. Or maybe you just don't want more competition when you play...

You want to be able to field a starting side for $20.

That's unrealistic.

Being a tool about it is helping your case a lot though.

Name calling helps yours just as much.

X-wing has a hilariously low barrier of entry in comparison to other miniature games. Particularly at it's quality level. Not having a more powerful Advanced is not stopping people from playing X-wing. There is a difference between being actually poor and just not having unlimited disposable income. I'd like to drive a nicer car, it isn't in the budget, that doesn't mean I'm poor.

Depends on which games you are comparing to. I do agree, though, it's not the tie advanced that is the barrier. It's the general start-up cost. Most people I know won't play a game they have to spend more than $20 total on. Maybe they'll spend more later on, but notif they have to spend $50 out of the gate.

As I said, the raider/ x-1 approach just reinforces that resistance.

Bottom line, I think card packs is a great marketing idea that can grow the customer base. Ridiculing it the way some have just seems petty to me.

You have provided no argument as to how offering card packs would actually lower the initial cost of entry. It certainly wouldn't put it within reach of those unwilling to spend more then $20 on a game.

There is a difference between being poor and just being cheap.

X-wing has a hilariously low barrier of entry in comparison to other miniature games. Particularly at it's quality level. Not having a more powerful Advanced is not stopping people from playing X-wing. There is a difference between being actually poor and just not having unlimited disposable income. I'd like to drive a nicer car, it isn't in the budget, that doesn't mean I'm poor.

Depends on which games you are comparing to. I do agree, though, it's not the tie advanced that is the barrier. It's the general start-up cost. Most people I know won't play a game they have to spend more than $20 total on. Maybe they'll spend more later on, but notif they have to spend $50 out of the gate.

As I said, the raider/ x-1 approach just reinforces that resistance.

Bottom line, I think card packs is a great marketing idea that can grow the customer base. Ridiculing it the way some have just seems petty to me.

You have provided no argument as to how offering card packs would actually lower the initial cost of entry. It certainly wouldn't put it within reach of those unwilling to spend more then $20 on a game.

There is a difference between being poor and just being cheap.

Well...if someone wants to run a Fat Han but doesn't have $60 lying around just to pick up the C3P0 card...

Or if someone wants to run some x1 Advanced Ties but doesn't have the $60-$80 for it...then a card pack would certainly save them some money.

Name calling helps yours just as much.

Here's how you entered the topic:

FFG doesn't care about customers.

FFG maintains an active, aggressive policy of alienating poor people with regards to this game.

Poor people shouldn't be playing miniatures games that have an expansion driven business model, but choose one of the many, many, many excellent boardgames out there that offer masses of replayability.

For instance, if they want to move spaceships around, try Star Trek Fleet Captains.

Well...if someone wants to run a Fat Han but doesn't have $60 lying around just to pick up the C3P0 card...

Or if someone wants to run some x1 Advanced Ties but doesn't have the $60-$80 for it...then a card pack would certainly save them some money.

Agreed, but the $30 cost of Han/YT-1300 alone, let alone the cost of the card pack, not to mention enough ships/cards to fill out the rest of a list, is still way over some ridiculous $20 price point.

X-wing has a hilariously low barrier of entry in comparison to other miniature games. Particularly at it's quality level. Not having a more powerful Advanced is not stopping people from playing X-wing. There is a difference between being actually poor and just not having unlimited disposable income. I'd like to drive a nicer car, it isn't in the budget, that doesn't mean I'm poor.

Depends on which games you are comparing to. I do agree, though, it's not the tie advanced that is the barrier. It's the general start-up cost. Most people I know won't play a game they have to spend more than $20 total on. Maybe they'll spend more later on, but notif they have to spend $50 out of the gate.

As I said, the raider/ x-1 approach just reinforces that resistance.

Bottom line, I think card packs is a great marketing idea that can grow the customer base. Ridiculing it the way some have just seems petty to me.

You have provided no argument as to how offering card packs would actually lower the initial cost of entry. It certainly wouldn't put it within reach of those unwilling to spend more then $20 on a game.

There is a difference between being poor and just being cheap.

Fair point, and on the subject of no difference between poor and cheap... there we agree.

Lowering the cost of entry is about more than card packs. There may not be a solution, but I do know packaging high-demand products with something virtually useless to the majority of customers is bad business.

Well...if someone wants to run a Fat Han but doesn't have $60 lying around just to pick up the C3P0 card...

Or if someone wants to run some x1 Advanced Ties but doesn't have the $60-$80 for it...then a card pack would certainly save them some money.

But you don't need to buy those cards, they are not essential to the game. And then you have to weigh the decisions: do you spend the money so you can play with your plastic in a slightly different manner, or is it ultimately not worth it and is the money better spent elsewhere?

Here's the thing.

I'd spend the money to buy engine upgrades, but I am not spending $60 on a Falcon when all I need are two upgrade cards. I'd spend money on c3po, but not $100 on a CR90 that has nothing else I want in it.

They either need to sell singles, reprint on-demand cards often, or always have stock of every ship.

As it is, they're losing money by not selling singles.

Name calling helps yours just as much.

Here's how you entered the topic:

FFG doesn't care about customers.

FFG maintains an active, aggressive policy of alienating poor people with regards to this game.

Poor people shouldn't be playing miniatures games that have an expansion driven business model, but choose one of the many, many, many excellent boardgames out there that offer masses of replayability.

For instance, if they want to move spaceships around, try Star Trek Fleet Captains.

That's a pretty radical interpretation of the text. I never said FFG doesn't care about customers. I know the opposite to be true, in fact. I do think the approach with the raider is pretty tasteless, much as it was with the transport and the tantive. People who want to play competitively are required to buy these products. My tantive has been collecting dust for over a year. I tell people 3p0 is the only $90 card in the game. Because it is.

I play competitively, but I don't use my 3PO for that.

And with the announcement of the Raider, you might start dusting off that Corvette.

Here's the thing.

I'd spend the money to buy engine upgrades, but I am not spending $60 on a Falcon when all I need are two upgrade cards. I'd spend money on c3po, but not $100 on a CR90 that has nothing else I want in it.

They either need to sell singles, reprint on-demand cards often, or always have stock of every ship.

As it is, they're losing money by not selling singles.

Feeling entitled much?

I would like that. Epic play has been deemed too tedious but no now doesn't mean no forever.

For what it's worth, I'm looking forward to getting one.

Agreed, but the $30 cost of Han/YT-1300 alone, let alone the cost of the card pack, not to mention enough ships/cards to fill out the rest of a list, is still way over some ridiculous $20 price point.

The issue is not purchasing ships you intend to play, its spending additional money on ships simply for the upgrade cards limited to that box. Many people purchased a Tantive IV for no other reason than for the upgrade cards included in the box, with no intention of ever playing epic games. Many fellow games don't have that luxury to spend $60 to simply get 1 shiny new card, so they end up having to proxy or purchase the card second hand. This is not the end of the world, but it does prevent some players from participating in tournies or playing in LGS's that aren't friendly to proxies. Some of us will be buying Starvipers simply for autothrusters, and Raiders simply for x1 cards, but for those without that extra cash lying around, they'll be SOL unless FFG changes its policy. IMO FFG should offer card pack, at the very least it will help with its current distribution issues.

Here's the thing.

I'd spend the money to buy engine upgrades, but I am not spending $60 on a Falcon when all I need are two upgrade cards. I'd spend money on c3po, but not $100 on a CR90 that has nothing else I want in it.

They either need to sell singles, reprint on-demand cards often, or always have stock of every ship.

As it is, they're losing money by not selling singles.

Feeling entitled much?

Feeling condescending much?

People who want to play competitively with those specific cards are required to buy these products.

FTFY

1) but it does prevent some players from participating in tournies

2) IMO FFG should offer card pack, at the very least it will help with its current distribution issues.

1) Again, with those specific cards. There are many, many ways to play X-Wing. Not having C3PO doesn't suddenly preclude you from all the other near-infinite build possibilities, or from taking one of them to a tournament. My local scene isn't huge, but I have yet to see a Fat Falcon, let alone play against one or watch one win a tournament.

2) Now that has some logic to it.

Here's the thing.

I'd spend the money to buy engine upgrades, but I am not spending $60 on a Falcon when all I need are two upgrade cards. I'd spend money on c3po, but not $100 on a CR90 that has nothing else I want in it.

They either need to sell singles, reprint on-demand cards often, or always have stock of every ship.

As it is, they're losing money by not selling singles.

No, they are losing out on purchases from you. On the flip side if someone that really just wants the specefic card decides to now buy the ship, when they may have not otherwise, then FFG has just made a sale.

FFG is only losing out on money if you believe the money to be made in lost sales is greater then the number of additional sales gained. You don't have access to the information needed to support your assertion.

Feeling entitled much?

Feeling condescending much?

No more than usual.

Then again, I'm not the one telling a company they need to change their business model or keep a lot of stock at their own cost because you might want to buy a card and can't wait for the arrival of new stock or deals on huge ships.

You can get a Tantive now for 60 dollars, and that's without even looking for special deals.

People who want to play competitively with those specific cards are required to buy these products.

FTFY

1) but it does prevent some players from participating in tournies

2) IMO FFG should offer card pack, at the very least it will help with its current distribution issues.

1) Again, with those specific cards. There are many, many ways to play X-Wing. Not having C3PO doesn't suddenly preclude you from all the other near-infinite build possibilities, or from taking one of them to a tournament. My local scene isn't huge, but I have yet to see a Fat Falcon, let alone play against one or watch one win a tournament.

2) Now that has some logic to it.

1. There are many ways to play X-wing, but only 1 way to play Advanced Ties($80)

2. Thank you, senpai

Agreed, but the $30 cost of Han/YT-1300 alone, let alone the cost of the card pack, not to mention enough ships/cards to fill out the rest of a list, is still way over some ridiculous $20 price point.

The issue is not purchasing ships you intend to play, its spending additional money on ships simply for the upgrade cards limited to that box. Many people purchased a Tantive IV for no other reason than for the upgrade cards included in the box, with no intention of ever playing epic games. Many fellow games don't have that luxury to spend $60 to simply get 1 shiny new card, so they end up having to proxy or purchase the card second hand. This is not the end of the world, but it does prevent some players from participating in tournies or playing in LGS's that aren't friendly to proxies. Some of us will be buying Starvipers simply for autothrusters, and Raiders simply for x1 cards, but for those without that extra cash lying around, they'll be SOL unless FFG changes its policy. IMO FFG should offer card pack, at the very least it will help with its current distribution issues.

Not having the x1 Title, C3PO, or an individual card does not prevent a player from meaningfully participating in events. By that line of thinking not having a full possible assortment of any ship or upgrade from either side would prevent players from participating in events.

Here's the thing.

I'd spend the money to buy engine upgrades, but I am not spending $60 on a Falcon when all I need are two upgrade cards. I'd spend money on c3po, but not $100 on a CR90 that has nothing else I want in it.

They either need to sell singles, reprint on-demand cards often, or always have stock of every ship.

As it is, they're losing money by not selling singles.

No, they are losing out on purchases from you. On the flip side if someone that really just wants the specefic card decides to now buy the ship, when they may have not otherwise, then FFG has just made a sale.

FFG is only losing out on money if you believe the money to be made in lost sales is greater then the number of additional sales gained. You don't have access to the information needed to support your assertion.

While true, they could increase the markup on single cards to easily offset any losses in sales.

A card costs what, maybe $0.05 to make? Selling packs of cards for a few bucks makes a lot of sense, especially since it makes the game more accessible to new players who weren't around when, say, the falcon came out two years ago.

Sure there are reprints, but the bottleneck is the models themselves. Selling a "Wave 2 upgrade card pack" for example, would make a lot of sense when they aren't getting money off of new sales anyway.

Sigh. It's that time again. Subject: Selling cards by themselves.

I have always answered ... No. No. A thousand times no.

But, if they decide to do it, please do it in such a way that these "booster" deck sales are KNOWN entities. In other words, if FFG chooses to release a pack of 10 cards for $5, I want to know PRECISELY what cards are in the pack. No selling random booster packs. Ever. No, really. NEVER EVER.

Thanks for listening.

I never said I was poor. I said making the cards and other components more accessible to people on a budget would be a positive thing for the game overall. Or maybe you just don't want more competition when you play...

You know.. as long as you own the game and those people dont have to buy anything to play, I think there is something else going on. If they can play for free and still dont.. I think they are blowing sunshine up your @$$ about wanting to play.. just what I've gotten from that conversation.

I bought heavily into this game, and I have been able to have 4 people playing 2 games during a game night.. none of them had to buy a thing and we all have fun...