There is never a need to pay for alt art cards.. they give them away for free at tourneys... that people pay 40 or 80 bucks for them is insane...

Well you know some people can not make the events. Thus thier only option is to purchase the item.

They also have the option not to buy them.

I see what people are saying but I just think that there are a lot of people that would spend money on card singles or packs that would much rather buy them from FFG then another person or site. I know that the current model does lend it self to someone buying a pack and selling the cards which is still a mini bought.

Again I know that 15 is not a ton for most people but after my peanut was born there is little to no money in the budget for Xwing. So to say just buy a ship for the card you need is 4 months of saving. Look I am not trying to complain but if I am going go buy a single upgrade card I would much rather by it from FFG and support them. I do understand though for a card to exist someone had to buy a ship to begin with.

Anyway just some thoughts .

I'm not sure why anyone is saying this doesnt make good business sense because they already do this with their other games. For example, the adversary and talent card packs for the Star Wars RPGs. They charge $6.95 for 22 cards.

Suppose they released X-wing upgrade cards using that same model. I imagine that profit on 22 cards for $6.95 is much more than a plastic ship model, 10 cards, and a bunch of cardboard counters for $14.95

And all the people who are holding back buying that 1 ship just for 1 card, would go and buy the upgrade card packs. I know I would.

I guess none of us can really say what's financially viable for Fantasy Flight anyway, but I think it's within the realm of possibility considering they've already done it.

Those card sets for the RPG you mention are... in addition to other products. They enhance the game play.. they are a good business decision.

Upgrades in this game, though would be nice, are not a good decision for them. You can buy the one side you like and get all the upgrades for cheap.. not in their best interest.. if you have to buy all the expansionss to play tourneys... more money in their pocket.. it's simple really, and those that refuse to buy ships for cards.. are a minority..

The RPG cards follow the same principle. They have the exact same info that's printed in the RPG books. They don't actually enhance anything. Yet FF isn't losing money because everyone's buying only the cards for 7 dollars and not the core books for 60. The point is that people buy both.

Just because I bought a pack of some Xwing upgrade cards doesn't mean some day I'm not going to want to buy a ship that has the same upgrade cards.

Imagine this scenario: Today, I have 7 dollars to spend. Cool, I'll buy those upgrade cards for the ships I already own. A month from now, I have 90 dollars to spend, now I'll buy the Tantive IV because it's a cool ship. It's not like owning the upgrade cards somehow devalues owning the Tantive IV.

But again, only FF knows what's a good business decision for them. None of us can say for sure who would buy what.

Its already being done your just not looking in the right place

There is never a need to pay for alt art cards.. they give them away for free at tourneys... that people pay 40 or 80 bucks for them is insane...

Well you know some people can not make the events. Thus thier only option is to purchase the item.

They also have the option not to buy them.

Of course.

Now that Guess The Imperial Epic and Guess The TIE advanced fix threads are no longer available and the TIE advanced has temporarily warded off Fat Han discussion, this one rears its head again.

It isn't going to happen. The current model is incredibly successful. Releasing card packs would require designing a lot more cards to make them viable, more effort for less profit. Yes, people would buy them, but that means nothing. People would buy a $30 Might of the Empire pack that came with eight TIE fighters.

FFG aren't trying that hard to force you to buy ships you don't want: important cards get rereleased in other ships they're appropriate with. FFG didn't have to package a bunch of PTLs in Imperial Aces, they could have forced you to buy 4 A-wings. They didn't.

I'm not trying to stop people discussing it but seriously guys, this one isn't going to happen. Most Wanted setups where you get bases and cards for ships you already have in a box that does contain miniatures I could see happening again if FFG ever needs to, but card/punchboard only releases? Can't see those happening.

The RPG cards follow the same principle. They have the exact same info that's printed in the RPG books. They don't actually enhance anything. Yet FF isn't losing money because everyone's buying only the cards for 7 dollars and not the core books for 60. The point is that people buy both.

Reference cards so that you don't have to look them up in the book. Completely different story. It's not as if upgrade cards are only compatible with the ship they com with. If Predator could be got from a cheap pack of upgrade cards, they'd sell fewer TIE defenders. Likewise, Veteran Instincts and Engine Upgrade sell more Falcons and Firesprays and the TIE advanced upgrades will sell several Raiders by themselves.

Of course.

It's a big one.

I see a lot of people here talking about how they need cards and how FFG is making money by providing cards they need only through expensive ships.

You don't need cards, you want them. That is a very important distinction and an important realization to come to. You want them. Once you realize that you want them and that that is not the same as needing them you are in a position to decide whether or not your desire is enough to rationalize the expense.

Here, or elsewhere, I saw a student complaining that it's difficult enough to make rent and tuition so he needs to proxy.

Maybe, if you're on a limited budget, this isn't the game for you, or at least not a game you can be highly competitive in because you can't buy all the required components. And that's okay. This is a game, a luxury item. You don't need it. You want it. But don't complain about the pricing or distribution methods.

There is never a need to pay for alt art cards.. they give them away for free at tourneys... that people pay 40 or 80 bucks for them is insane...

Well you know some people can not make the events. Thus thier only option is to purchase the item.

They also have the option not to buy them.

Of course.

If 40-80 bucks helps me avoid a few dinks, then I say it is cash well spent.

Tournament scenes are not for me.

I like being able to buy cards, because things wear out, get lost, or damaged. If a model comes out that I might not want, but has cards that I might like then I buy the model. Being able to buy separate card packs would be convienent. Eventually I think as the game ages, that FFG will release packs, but being a relatively new game I don't see it happening. Again as the game ages and some cards are no long available then it might change. Engine upgrade could be an example. It has only been released with the Falcon, but that is not bad as it is one of the iconic ships in the game, so it should always be available, but 2 years from now when I have 4 Falcons, but for some reason all of my engine upgrades are gone, then what do I do, continue to by more falcons. Probably not, beg borrow or steal probably. Short term no packs, long term growth probably.

The only reason not to do it is because they don't care about having a larger customer base. Putting the x1 cards in the raider is just another in-your-face anti-poor people manuever to keep them from getting interested in the game due to lack of affordability. You may think that is dumb supposition or that it doesn't affect you but 100,000 customers is better than 10,000 when it comes to continued game development.

Thanks for the laugh Boris.

You're welcome. It's always good to know there are people who can laugh at poor people.

Personally, whilst I think it would be unfeasable for FFG to put out a card booster for pilot cards, since you'd also need to include the base inserts as well, I would argue that putting out a pack of upgrade cards, with a couple of upgrades that you can't get anywhere else might work.

Each booster would have a loose theme and would contain 3 copies of around 20 different cards per booster. Sell them for $9.99 each.

People still need to buy the model boosters to get the pilot cards and everything else. If they want extra upgrades they have to buy the specific booster or boosters.

Of course.

It's a big one.

I see a lot of people here talking about how they need cards and how FFG is making money by providing cards they need only through expensive ships.

You don't need cards, you want them. That is a very important distinction and an important realization to come to. You want them. Once you realize that you want them and that that is not the same as needing them you are in a position to decide whether or not your desire is enough to rationalize the expense.

Here, or elsewhere, I saw a student complaining that it's difficult enough to make rent and tuition so he needs to proxy.

Maybe, if you're on a limited budget, this isn't the game for you, or at least not a game you can be highly competitive in because you can't buy all the required components. And that's okay. This is a game, a luxury item. You don't need it. You want it. But don't complain about the pricing or distribution methods.

I was speaking in regards to the overstated reaction from some posters towards what people will pay for promos that can be obtained via event particiption. I was not stating then anyone had to obtain anything. Only that if you want to you have two options; play or pay. Some people can not or do not want to play, so they are willing to pay. Because of the limited nature of the promos, of course prices will get higher. Scarcity has that effect.

Just wait tell Miniature market makes it the deal of the day... and then buy it!!

You're welcome. It's always good to know there are people who can laugh at poor people.

No, it's the concept that you seem to believe the way in which the game is packaged is what prevents poor people from participating. As if participation in this game requires complete access to all components or that that is the actually the hurdle inhibiting the economically disadvantaged. Complete component access is certainly not required to play this game. Nor is lack of complete compentent access preventing "poor people" from playing.

Your logic is what's laughable, not the plight of the poor.

Whatever helps you sleep at night. I just know we'd have 20 people playing this game locally if the entry point wasn't a barrier. Instead, we have 3-5. Marketing power plays like the Raider don't help the situation.

1. You and the other 15 people you want playing shut off your Internet for a year.

2. Buy a bunch of ships each with the money saved.

3. Profit from an expanded player base.

*BONUS* We don't have to hear your whining for a whole year!

X-wing has a hilariously low barrier of entry in comparison to other miniature games. Particularly at it's quality level. Not having a more powerful Advanced is not stopping people from playing X-wing. There is a difference between being actually poor and just not having unlimited disposable income. I'd like to drive a nicer car, it isn't in the budget, that doesn't mean I'm poor.

You don't need cards, you want them.

The real truth is that you don't even need to want them. Despite the fact that people get insanely defensive over possessing the cards, the cards are really just rules. Anyone who has ever played Tag knows that a hard copy of the rules is completely unnecessary provided that all players have something filling the cavity in their skull. To use rules, you only have to know what they are.

In what is a severely underappreciated gesture of goodwill toward its players, FFG is nice enough to supply exact copies of those cards to anyone with access to its website. Do you have a tablet/smartphone? Then you have all of the cards that you could possibly need. Printing them is probably not kosher, but even people in most third-world countries can track down a pencil and a piece of paper.

Edit: Lets be honest and admit that throwing darts at a board to decide how many points the TIE Advanced should cost was a really bad move. I feel bad for anyone who bought that ship with the intention of playing competitively. It is very understandable why they would feel a bit upset when FFG admits to screwing that ship up but is willing to fix it if you just buy something new. They could have just as easily modified the points cost directly. But again, no one actually needs the X-1 card to use the rules on it (they are very simple).

No.

1. You and the other 15 people you want playing shut off your Internet for a year.

2. Buy a bunch of ships each with the money saved.

3. Profit from an expanded player base.

*BONUS* We don't have to hear your whining for a whole year!

How about you turn off your Internet for a year and buy the minis for other peopl instead of making inflammatory personal attacks? Then you still get your "bonus."

C'est le ton qui fait la musique.

I fail to see, by the way, how making upgrade cards available at a cheaper price would enable people who can't afford to buy miniatures to play.

X-wing has a hilariously low barrier of entry in comparison to other miniature games. Particularly at it's quality level. Not having a more powerful Advanced is not stopping people from playing X-wing. There is a difference between being actually poor and just not having unlimited disposable income. I'd like to drive a nicer car, it isn't in the budget, that doesn't mean I'm poor.

As I said, the raider/ x-1 approach just reinforces that resistance.

Bottom line, I think card packs is a great marketing idea that can grow the customer base. Ridiculing it the way some have just seems petty to me.

You may think that is dumb supposition or that it doesn't affect you but 100,000 customers is better than 10,000 when it comes to continued game development.

Not if they are 100,000 poor people.