Maybe it's just me...but I find the idea of complaining about the price of a luxury item in a capitalist society to be terribly amusing.

Not really things are only worth what people will pay for them that's why prices don't stay fixed but drop over time as newer products come out.

People aren't complaining about the price.

Let's put it this way.

Is it better the Advanced is fixed in the Raider or not at all?

You could say just stick it in the next Ace pack (it's the Empire's turn again, isn't it?) but if you do, you're pushing something out of that Acepack. If the next one is, say, Bomber and Defender (we know Bomber's coming) for it to contain Advanced you've got to kick out another ship.

Plus, this is a double acepack of fixes. We get four pilots, not two. You're effectively getting a CR-90 and Rebel Aces together, which isn't bad going.

I'll say again, the Raider comes with a vast surplus of x1 cards, many more than most people'll need. You'll be able to get them off the trade threads, eBay, plenty of places, and you only need them for tournaments anyway. If you're not getting a Raider and/or you don't think it's okay having to get a Raider to get all the TIE advanced cards, you don't have to get a Raider to get hold of them. And before you throw that "but I want my money to go to FFG!" stuff at me, the person giving/trading you two copies each of the upgrades already paid for them. If you're that desperate to give FFG money then send them a cheque in the mail or something.

By that logic the upgrades will always be pushing something out of the pack they are in. They could have included all sorts of stuff, but didn't. They choose these cards. The whole point of the Aces packs is that they offer alternate versions of established ships (such as the refit for the a wing), so that would have been an infinitely superior product.

Telling people they can make do on ebay (assuming there are enough cards available for everyone that wants one) vastly misses the point. I want to support my FLGS and FFG, I do not want to support Mr Ebayer and his price gouging.

If the Raider had completley new cards that would be fine. I don't even mind the new Advanced pilot cards. The issue is the upgrades that make it a playable ship. This is a cheap shot from a company that's done very well from this game. Is it so unreasonable that they reciprocate?

Yeah, no, I call BS on this one. If there was a new ship only available with the raider the same FFG is gouging us nonsense would be here.

If you want to support FFG then buy the raider.

If FFG is an evil corporation gouging you by forcing you to buy an epic ship then you have no need to support them and can buy the cards on eBay.

If you want to support you FLGS then buy the thousands of dollars worth of other xwing stuff from them.

Covered?

FFG clearly knows that people who may not play a lot of Epic are going to want these ships for things they can use in standard play. That's why every single crew in the Tantive expansion was unique or Huge Ship Only, and why the Advanced upgrades are coming four to a box: so you only have to buy one to have all you need. Heck, with the way the Tantive's Epic points are (and the Raider's likely to be), even if you DO play Epic, you'll still only need one.

This is clearly not price gouging... gouging is when someone prices something beyond what is considered to be reasonable or fair.

There is no question that the price FFG is asking for the Raider is fair and reasonable, considering what you get.

If the only thing you want is the Advanced, this still isn't gouging, it's at worse a case of a bad decision on FFG's part. They could of (and IMO very likely will) come out with another package that has these upgrades in them, that costs less, and doesn't have a ship people don't want.

But just because you don't want part of the package doesn't make it gouging by any stretch.

Man, this topic has really blown up.

my thoughts are this:

as i stated earlier, im a parent, live in the burbs, go to school, and have a house payment. i can manage to save out 100.00 for this, and even if i couldn't, i wouldn't *****, because a quick amazon search 3 minutes ago revealed i could buy both the IV and the Transport from amazon for 109 bucks together. or about 55 per ship. sorry, but the complaints on the pricing are just silly. There are ebay stores that sell singles, and I'm sure they will have these cards in stock. they might not for long, sure, so i wouldn't dilly dally around about it, but I'm sure they will. i REALLY don't see what the problem is.

its also important to note that the trend i have picked up on is "i don't want this epic ship because my tournaments aren't epic" and i get that too. The problem is, the game is not made for you mr. tournament player. Its made for the casual crowd, like almost all games, because there are probably three times as many (maybe more) casual players than there are tournament players. if a card you see as a tournament staple comes in one of these packs, you will need to buy it and so be it. I don't think FFG did this to cause you heart ache, they did it because the likely VAST majority of the players will buy this product, and those on the fence are now value-added to persuade them to buy it, and those that are just pissed off at the world wont, and thats fine too. They aren't gong to bow down and capitulate to you, because their business model has so far been very successful, so either buy it, try to get the cards through a secondary market, or don't, it really is your call.

The products that come out are designed to get the most people to buy them while still providing a value-add to their product line. if that means 7 people complaining on an internet forum wont buy it, but 7000 other people will, well, it makes sense to sell 7000 of them.

Entitlement is a problem.

"i cant afford it" and "i shouldn't have to" are pointless statements. if you are so hard up that you cant afford a 90.00 expansion to a game, maybe you should re-think where this game is in your list of priorities? maybe you can get rid of the 5th xwing or the 2nd YT-1300 you own and raise some money for the new expansion, or work to trade one hobby to another....the point being is that if people want something, getting the money is often the secondary concern. if you don't believe me, ask anyone who has worked in finance or collections.

If you truly cannot afford to do either of those things, and have no other hobbies to trade (like XBox One games or PS4 games) and cannot save even pocket change (keep in mind, this expansion is like 3 - 6 months away), and believe me, pocket change adds up, Then you should probably consider getting out of the hobby, because sooner or later more stuff will continue to come out and you wont be able to keep up then too.

No, i dont think affordability is the problem.

Strange feeling of deja vu rising... rising... rising...

This is clearly not price gouging... gouging is when someone prices something beyond what is considered to be reasonable or fair.

There is no question that the price FFG is asking for the Raider is fair and reasonable, considering what you get.

If the only thing you want is the Advanced, this still isn't gouging, it's at worse a case of a bad decision on FFG's part. They could of (and IMO very likely will) come out with another package that has these upgrades in them, that costs less, and doesn't have a ship people don't want.

But just because you don't want part of the package doesn't make it gouging by any stretch.

Well, we can split hairs over what people agree is the correct terminology. I'm not really interested in going down that rabbit hole because it's a distraction.

I would like for FFG to justify this decision and explain why they cannot choose a different outlet for these vital upgrades.

They won't, of course, because they never respond on these forums, which is disappointing.

It is extremely unlikely they will release these cards elswhere as well since the whole point of including these cards, they know people will want, is to sell the Raider.

This is most certainly a very bad decision. At best it suggests FFG has no confidence in selling big ships and with Armada round the corner i've no interest in big ships in x wing. I've certainly no desire to waste £70 on something that will rarely be used just to get vital upgrades. I would urge FFG to seriously reconsider.

No, i dont think affordability is the problem.

Which is great because I don't think anyone has said that it is.

However to blithely expect people to just spend £70 in order to get what they want is a little bit ignorant. Some people most certainly will not be able to afford this and it is for no one else to criticise them for it.

My issue with this is having spent money and shelf space one something that may never be used in a game. I don't like to buy, or own, anything that I don't actually use. It's a waste of both financial and material resources.

For similar reasons I can and will complain about console exclusives, especially bought exclusivity. Same goes for proprietary razor blades, certain pieces of software and electronic connectors (looking at you, Apple).

I think when it comes down to it most of us will only need one set (for Vader).

Once the dust dies down there should be plenty available for everyone.

Especially if FFG make the Raider 2 epic points and all the mad Imperial guys can buy 2.

This will be £70 on top of whatever else comes out next year - including Wave 6 which, all in, is even more expensive.

Also, people already own TIE Advanced ships. To argue that if they can't afford the cards that now make the ship viable they should stop buying video games or work extra shifts is massively missing the point.

I want to support my FLGS and FFG

Yet complain they're unethically ripping you off.

I would like for FFG to justify this decision and explain why they cannot choose a different outlet for these vital upgrades.

Then email them.

@sc077y

Well said.

I want to support my FLGS and FFG

Yet complain they're unethically ripping you off.

That's right.

I want to support good decision making that benefits the community not just FFG.

Do you not understand this?

The current situation is deeply unfair to the players that have TIE advanced ships and want to use them. If that was changed I would support FFG. If that doesn't change then I won't suppor them because I have no desire to buy epic ships, let alone pay £70 for some cards for another ship entirely.

Not sure why that's so contentious.

@sc077y

Well said.

What was well said about it?

It's called capitalism folks. It isn't unprecedented in life, or even in x-wing. I get that you really want these cards. I do too. If you don't want to buy a Raider, and you don't want to buy the cards on the secondary market, then I guess you don't get to play with them. Sorry.

It's called capitalism folks. It isn't unprecedented in life, or even in x-wing. I get that you really want these cards. I do too. If you don't want to buy a Raider, and you don't want to buy the cards on the secondary market, then I guess you don't get to play with them. Sorry.

Are you the CEO?

Also im sure you could buy the raider take the advanced+cards and then sell the big ship at a discount, bound to be someone who wants just the epic ship and not the advanced.

I would like for FFG to justify this decision and explain why they cannot choose a different outlet for these vital upgrades.

There's no need for them to justify anything. The offer us a product that we can buy or not buy as we wish. If you don't find enough value in the product to buy it, that's on you, and requires no justification on their part.

It is extremely unlikely they will release these cards elswhere as well since the whole point of including these cards, they know people will want, is to sell the Raider.

You are flat wrong about that. They have already offered prized cards in other sets to make them easier for people to get. So you will see that trend continue, that means cards like C-3PO or the Tie Advanced fix will show up in other packages down the road.

This is most certainly a very bad decision.

Wow, so much cluelessness in one post.

No it is not a bad decision. The Raider would of sold just fine on it's own, the sales of the other epic ships is proof enough of that. There was no need to put the Tie Advanced in there to make sure it sells.

But including it will increase the sales, because doing so is what is know as added value. They are increasing the overall value of the package by adding in something people want, this is in no way a bad decision, it's a good one.

It will improve the sales of this product, and that means it's a good decision. It may not be the most consumer friendly decision, but that doesn't make it a bad one, unless you're some sort of hardcore socialist who believes the whole point of company is to provide goods to us with no expectation of profit.

Are you the CEO?

Are you? Because you are the one here who's speaking as if you and you alone know what is or isn't a good business decision.

I agree withe OP. I think it sucks, but FFG is a business and they've come up with a system that is great for them (albeit a little frustrating at least some of their customers) since it makes folks buy things they may not want to get things they do want. They do this with lots of their games in one way or another. Other companies do it to, and sometimes in even worse ways. I wish it was differnet in general, particularly since I don't really like epic play or even the epic ships they've chosen to produce, but I do want the cards so I buy it online to save a few dollars.

It's called capitalism folks. It isn't unprecedented in life, or even in x-wing. I get that you really want these cards. I do too. If you don't want to buy a Raider, and you don't want to buy the cards on the secondary market, then I guess you don't get to play with them. Sorry.

Are you the CEO?

Just a citizen of reality. Why are you so defensive?

The Raider would of sold just fine on it's own, the sales of the other epic ships is proof enough of that. There was no need to put the Tie Advanced in there to make sure it sells.

There is absolutely no evidence to support this claim. Every epic ship so far has had important upgrades for regular play. So, there is no way to know how they would have sold if they were not packaged this way (if anything, I think the fact that they are packaged this way suggests FFG felt this is what they had to do to make them sell and not the other way around).

For example, thre is no way I would not have bought a single epic ship if they did not include regular play cards. We have a huge group in my area who play X-Wing (over 200 people on our facebook page, with open play several times a week and at multiple stores, and tournaments just about every week). I've never seen anyone play a single epic game.

Is £70 a lot of money?

Yes.

But just go a have a look at what GW are charging, and it becomes a much more palatable option.

Plus it falls into my "one tank of petrol" principle.

I will probably put that much money into my car every week to ten days, that the same amount of money can get me FFG awesomeness that will last much longer and be far more fun...£70 on a toy? Better value than the petrol.