Plus it only matters to the tourney players or groups that dont allow proxy in casual play.

But people dont want to proxy; they want the option to support the company and their shops.

Then they have to pay. It's as simple as that. If it's that important, then people will find a way to pay. If it's not, they won't. No one is being forced at gunpoint to open their wallets and give FFG money. It's a choice.

By the way, since we surely have several months before it comes out, people can start saving $5-10 a week, and they'll have enough money to buy a copy.

Is this even really an issue ? The ships looks awesome, We just got the announcement you have like 6 months if not more to save up, if you save 5 dollars a week, your golden, a dollar a day, golden, even 50 cents a day till then, your golden. Just plan a bit ahead of time and the ships can be within budget.

Does it suck to buy it just for the advanced ? Yes it does, and I feel you on that. However, if you want it you can find an easy way that it won't hurt much. If not, you can proxy ( though I don't enjoy doing this either. ) You can also just be happy with what you have and divert funds towards the Scum you'd have been using on this ship.

I for one am getting one of these for sure but it is pricey.

I was going to say, I want the big ship anyway so I'm willing to pay for it. but the others make a great point - soon after release you'll be able to buy the individual cards from someone somewhere.

Since the transport was released, there has been exactly 2 games of epic played at my LGS and only 2 players bought the ships.

Now consider why that was.

How many people would've played this game if it started out by only having one faction?

Because epic play isn't that appealing compared to the main game and costs too much?

I doubt it's because there weren't epic imperial ships to fight alongside.

This is a terribly cynical approach from FFG. I hope this is not a trend that continues. It's not fair on the customers at all. They knew the TIE advanced had balance issues. Releasing fixes for thos issues in a £70 package that includes a whit elephant is unfair.

Plus it only matters to the tourney players or groups that dont allow proxy in casual play.

But people dont want to proxy; they want the option to support the company and their shops.

Then they have to pay. It's as simple as that. If it's that important, then people will find a way to pay. If it's not, they won't. No one is being forced at gunpoint to open their wallets and give FFG money. It's a choice.

By the way, since we surely have several months before it comes out, people can start saving $5-10 a week, and they'll have enough money to buy a copy.

You're not listening: noone objects to buying the cards at all. Requiring that people instead support the secondary market is nonsensical. I don't want to 'save up', and i'm not a child who needs to be advised on how to spend his pocket money either thanks. I don't want the Raider. I've no interest in something that I will never use, that's too big to carry practically, just to acquire upgrades that fix bad game design.

I have no problem at all with adding extra ships/upgrades to these packages. The existence of threepio is perfectly fine because it isn't something that fixes an existing problem. If i don't own him, i don't use him. That's not a problem. I own a TIE advanced, but in order for it to be balanced and playable i need to acquire these cards.

Plus it only matters to the tourney players or groups that dont allow proxy in casual play.

But people dont want to proxy; they want the option to support the company and their shops.

Then they have to pay. It's as simple as that. If it's that important, then people will find a way to pay. If it's not, they won't. No one is being forced at gunpoint to open their wallets and give FFG money. It's a choice.

By the way, since we surely have several months before it comes out, people can start saving $5-10 a week, and they'll have enough money to buy a copy.

You're not listening: noone objects to buying the cards at all. Requiring that people instead support the secondary market is nonsensical. I don't want to 'save up', and i'm not a child who needs to be advised on how to spend his pocket money either thanks. I don't want the Raider. I've no interest in something that I will never use, that's too big to carry practically, just to acquire upgrades that fix bad game design.

I have no problem at all with adding extra ships/upgrades to these packages. The existence of threepio is perfectly fine because it isn't something that fixes an existing problem. If i don't own him, i don't use him. That's not a problem. I own a TIE advanced, but in order for it to be balanced and playable i need to acquire these cards.

Well said. If I wanted the Raider then it looks well worth the price, a rather beautiful piece of work. Unfortunately, I do not want the Raider. I do however want FFG's fix to their own product without a $100 price tag. I would pay for an Aces style band aid, I would pay for a card pack of some kind, but I'll pass on this.

I laughed a good bit when I saw the new expansion prevue. One because it made me happy, two we got the dad-blam TIE Advanced IN THE BOX, and three I knew a lot of flimsy wingers would find reasons to scream about both one and two.

:lol:

I have enjoyed laughing at the flimsiness... since the glorious announcement.

Ex-tra free entertainment is what I call it, for all of my supporting of FFG, I get these little side goodies.

The level of selfish ignorance in this thread makes me sad. And no, it's not coming from the people who think this is a poor way to package the fix for the Advanced.

If someone posted a thread about EA or Bungie requiring a $100 expansion to fix a balance issue with one unit in their game, the mockery around here would be enormous. In any other industry or even any other company in this one, the player base as a whole would be up in arms over the stupidity of this move. But not here.

If you're happy paying $40 for each of your TIE Advanced, I'm happy for you. If you want the Raider anyway, awesome - again, happy for you. Truly - I'm in that latter camp.

But if you cannot even conceive of this as a nasty move on FFG's part... if your only response to anyone pointing this out is to flame them, insult them, and point out how they should be just as willing as you to spend $100 for 8 bits of paper that cost FFG effectively nothing to manufacture... then you are an utterly irredeemable fanboy who deserves every bit of exploitation they get, and is nothing but a sign of how badly X-wing's community has degraded, if its self-congratulatory sense of superiority was ever justified in the first place.

The Raider is nice. The new TIE Advanced cards are nice. You should not have to pay for the former to get what is effectively a "Yeah, we F'ed up, sorry guys" fix from the second.

:lol:

I dunno

I think i'll have a raider for completeness and hopefully the campaign will be as much fun as the tantives.

I think once again we're having an unrepresentative reaction because this forum is populated disproportionately by '100 point 6 rock pick up game' players who play at their club or events.

Those of us that create campaigns and scenarios love stuff like this, i dont do much 'epic' play but i do play the huge ship scenarios.

Personally i think if you *dont* play the scenario with each box set at least once you're missing out. its a part of the expansion, you've paid for it give it a go.

While i'd have rather have seen an 'aircraft carrier' type ship like the Gozanti i totally see the genius in making an iconic 'wedge' shaped ship that fits the game scale and isnt trying to cram a star destoryer in my 1/8th scaling it compared to other ships.

The bonus for me is that i get cards that make the Tie advanced a bit more fun. We still play the advanced in games a lot as , again, we do narrative play. If we have a scenario with vader hunting down someone he's got to fly it. Its just a bonus it might get a bit punchier.

(also i like repaints so now i can have a flight of three, the repaint as vader and my two existing advanced as his wingmen)

If i was cynical i'd say that FFG *have* to put in 'added value' to the huge ships by putting in killer upgrades for small ships as otherwise they just wouldnt sell as many. In the UK a huge ship is abotu £65 (tantive) or £40 (transport) whereas small fighters are about £11.

So what would you rather an entire 6 ship imperial FORCE or a tantive? An entire four ship rebel FORCE or a transport.

Its not an attractive choice to get huge ship unless you already own most other things, have a lot of disposable income or .. and i know one person who has done this ... you just want a big scale model of the Tantive and dont actually play the game.

Huge ships have to be iconic to encourage people who dont know the game in the detail we do to pick it up off the shelf.

A raider will do this as a new player sees 'star destroyer and darth vaders ship' in a box.

TBH if you think its too much for tie advanced fix i can guarantee you soomeone somewhere hates tie advanced and doesnt care about fixing them and will happily sell you their upgrade cards as they just want two raiders and want to recoup some of the money.

DAT DOES IT!

BREAKFAST!

I had nice spicy sausage and smoked ham gravy on 12 grain (good for you) toast, with a pot of nice-ass coffee with dat sugar and cream.

... wuz good too!

Why does everyone keep talking that it's $99? You can buy it online for a lot cheaper. My local store sells the Tantive IV for $90, but I bought mine online for about $52 + shipping. That's a much more reasonable price.

Let's put it this way.

Is it better the Advanced is fixed in the Raider or not at all?

You could say just stick it in the next Ace pack (it's the Empire's turn again, isn't it?) but if you do, you're pushing something out of that Acepack. If the next one is, say, Bomber and Defender (we know Bomber's coming) for it to contain Advanced you've got to kick out another ship.

Plus, this is a double acepack of fixes. We get four pilots, not two. You're effectively getting a CR-90 and Rebel Aces together, which isn't bad going.

I'll say again, the Raider comes with a vast surplus of x1 cards, many more than most people'll need. You'll be able to get them off the trade threads, eBay, plenty of places, and you only need them for tournaments anyway. If you're not getting a Raider and/or you don't think it's okay having to get a Raider to get all the TIE advanced cards, you don't have to get a Raider to get hold of them. And before you throw that "but I want my money to go to FFG!" stuff at me, the person giving/trading you two copies each of the upgrades already paid for them. If you're that desperate to give FFG money then send them a cheque in the mail or something.

Well said. If I wanted the Raider then it looks well worth the price, a rather beautiful piece of work. Unfortunately, I do not want the Raider. I do however want FFG's fix to their own product without a $100 price tag. I would pay for an Aces style band aid, I would pay for a card pack of some kind, but I'll pass on this.

Part of an Aces package would have been perfectly acceptable.

This is gouging the customer; worse it's taking loyal players/fans (whatever you want to call us) and exploiting them. It's poor practice and it needs to be called out and criticised wherever it's found.

Unfortunately, and to put it bluntly, fanboys don't like that, and FFG has a lot of fanboys.

I laughed a good bit when I saw the new expansion prevue. One because it made me happy, two we got the dad-blam TIE Advanced IN THE BOX, and three I knew a lot of flimsy wingers would find reasons to scream about both one and two.

:lol:

I have enjoyed laughing at the flimsiness... since the glorious announcement.

Ex-tra free entertainment is what I call it, for all of my supporting of FFG, I get these little side goodies.

So your contribution to the discussion is to laugh at people who don't want/can't afford the price tag?

How mature of you.

Why does everyone keep talking that it's $99? You can buy it online for a lot cheaper. My local store sells the Tantive IV for $90, but I bought mine online for about $52 + shipping. That's a much more reasonable price.

They are complaining because they don't want to have to buy one of the most expensive ships, only intended for a particularly and rarely used style of play, in order to get the cards that fix a ship they do use.

I've no idea why that's hard to understand.

I laughed a good bit when I saw the new expansion prevue. One because it made me happy, two we got the dad-blam TIE Advanced IN THE BOX, and three I knew a lot of flimsy wingers would find reasons to scream about both one and two.

:lol:

I have enjoyed laughing at the flimsiness... since the glorious announcement.

Ex-tra free entertainment is what I call it, for all of my supporting of FFG, I get these little side goodies.

So your contribution to the discussion is to laugh at people who don't want/can't afford the price tag?

How mature of you.

**** right!

I have no pity for crybabies up here on our forum, knocking at FFG's backdoor with a mile long bottom lip.

Call da po-lice there be a robber prowl'in round at da back dor! 911 911 911!

:lol:

Let's put it this way.

Is it better the Advanced is fixed in the Raider or not at all?

You could say just stick it in the next Ace pack (it's the Empire's turn again, isn't it?) but if you do, you're pushing something out of that Acepack. If the next one is, say, Bomber and Defender (we know Bomber's coming) for it to contain Advanced you've got to kick out another ship.

Plus, this is a double acepack of fixes. We get four pilots, not two. You're effectively getting a CR-90 and Rebel Aces together, which isn't bad going.

I'll say again, the Raider comes with a vast surplus of x1 cards, many more than most people'll need. You'll be able to get them off the trade threads, eBay, plenty of places, and you only need them for tournaments anyway. If you're not getting a Raider and/or you don't think it's okay having to get a Raider to get all the TIE advanced cards, you don't have to get a Raider to get hold of them. And before you throw that "but I want my money to go to FFG!" stuff at me, the person giving/trading you two copies each of the upgrades already paid for them. If you're that desperate to give FFG money then send them a cheque in the mail or something.

By that logic the upgrades will always be pushing something out of the pack they are in. They could have included all sorts of stuff, but didn't. They choose these cards. The whole point of the Aces packs is that they offer alternate versions of established ships (such as the refit for the a wing), so that would have been an infinitely superior product.

Telling people they can make do on ebay (assuming there are enough cards available for everyone that wants one) vastly misses the point. I want to support my FLGS and FFG, I do not want to support Mr Ebayer and his price gouging.

If the Raider had completley new cards that would be fine. I don't even mind the new Advanced pilot cards. The issue is the upgrades that make it a playable ship. This is a cheap shot from a company that's done very well from this game. Is it so unreasonable that they reciprocate?

I laughed a good bit when I saw the new expansion prevue. One because it made me happy, two we got the dad-blam TIE Advanced IN THE BOX, and three I knew a lot of flimsy wingers would find reasons to scream about both one and two.

:lol:

I have enjoyed laughing at the flimsiness... since the glorious announcement.

Ex-tra free entertainment is what I call it, for all of my supporting of FFG, I get these little side goodies.

So your contribution to the discussion is to laugh at people who don't want/can't afford the price tag?

How mature of you.

**** right!

I have no pity for crybabies up here on our forum, knocking at FFG's backdoor with a mile long bottom lip.

Call da po-lice there be a robber prowl'in round at da back dor! 911 911 911!

:lol:

I've no idea what your problem is, but noone is crying. Perhaps you should try being a bit more mature when you post.

I think its easy to see yourself as buying a 'ship' with a dial.

But you're actually buying an 'expansion pack' for the game.

If you see it in those terms *everything* (especially boxed sets) becomes more reasonable.

To many buying the raider is a way to fix the tie, the raider itself is a 'wall hanger' that looks nice and they will never use.

To me... im getting a huge ship to do epic battles with, im probably going to get a well thought out campaign scenario pack (people get paid to write and playtest these, its a part of packs a lot of people on here overlook and do themselves an injustice) and i'm getting a small ship that also makes my existing small ships better.

If you look at it as a package rather than 'a tie advanced fix with an expensive wedge in the box' or 'the epic i wanted but with a load of cards for a ship i dont use much' then you'll see its not that expensive.

Im not slating GW but some of their plastic monster kits cost this and you just get sprues... you dont get it pre painted, you dont get extra rules, you dont get scenarios etc etc

You want a reasonable reply?

Okay then do not come on here and open a topic by accusing FFG of pulling a RIP OFF!

Nah...hels-nah!

We can all come here and say whatever we like as long as it is done so with respect and without abuse.

You have no business telling me that I can't accuse FFG of anything since you are not the forum moderator and I have not broken the rules.

This is a deliberate decision made by FFG which is what makes it so cynical. I don't care for it, nor do I think it's fair on the community. Are you seriously going to tell me that FFG couldn't sell these cards any other way? They'd sell like hotcakes in an Aces pack.

I don't see why all the fuss

They have to include a fix one way or another

To me it's nice to see, but it's not groundbreaking

Its not as though all if a sudden the advanced is op.

Frankly I still don't think it'll be enough to bring the advanced to competitive play, but that just my opinion

Look at it this way.

It comes with 4 cards.

How many advances do you own?

I have one and will have another when I get this.

Meaning there will be a lot of people with extra cards around, so it'll be pretty easy to find one through someone you know or online

And finally if the cost is too much then just wait

Do you have to have it day one?

Since some are not into epic play then I don't think even if cheap it's a day one purchase

So just wait till it goes on sale on miniature market

My buddy picked up the Tantive for 45 dollars through one of there sales.

Hell even if your not into epic play, that's still a steal, if even to put on your shelf, or desk at work

For me this is a day one purchase, but not because of the fix for the advanced.

I've been waiting for imperial epics and I love the design

Want it now!!!

Right now, whatever happens it is a double edged sword.

If FFG crumble and release a 'Yavin Aces' pack with the X-Wing and Advanced fixes, we get two more complaints:

1) People complaining they have to buy a double pack just for one ship. "What do I want with an X-Wing expansion! I play Empire, I'm not paying $30 for a TIE Advance and a ship I don't need!"

2) People who bought either epic ship (mostly the Rebel players) to get the expanded stuff, only for FFG to turn around and release them in a cheaper pack. "What the hell FFG! I spend $75 on a Transport just for the X-Wing and NOW you release it in a smaller, cheaper pack! Get lost FFG, worst company ever!"

They can't win, either way something is bad. If you want the TIE Advance expansion here is my advice, buy the epic ship and either suck it up or sell the stuff you don't want on Ebay, because right now the 'solutions' other people are coming up with would just cause more issues in the community.

I enjoy epic, and I am glad I do, if you don't I feel sorry for you and understand your pain, but this is how it has to be. Who knows, you may make back a majority of your money on Ebay.

Every release pack so far, someone, somewhere has complained about the cards included/not-included are unfair to be packaged that way. To be fair, the biggest complaint against Epic seems to have been that there wasn't an Imperial Epic ship for it. Problem solved. For all the complains of "I'm not buying Rebel Epic because there's no Empire Epic", I think we can put that to rest now.

I'm a huge fanboy of this game, and I think this release is spectacular. I love playing Epic. I love the TIE/Ad. I cannot wait to order this from my FLGS, and have them all on the table as soon as they arrive. I've flown the TIE/Ad consistently since it's been released. Prockets were a great improvement for them and I've had great fun flying them thus far.

FFG knew fully well what they were doing, I would believe, from my observation that the release announcement for the Raider was pretty much just about the TIE/Ad patch. How many upgrade cards, pilots or new data on the Raider do we have, other than that it's coming. Virtually none, other than a few grainy photos of some of the core stats of the Epic ship itself.

Fly casual.