The last time this was explained in full detail was waaay back during 2nd edition, though. I have a feeling it hasn't been described in more recent times as it makes the Astartes feel less important than the Guard, which is a notion the studio may wish to avoid, even if it makes perfect sense due to the Marines' relative rarity.

I've run into this with my mass combat system a lot. GW consistently paints space marines as the foremost of the Imperium's armies and a greater part of the fanbase share that view. But it's unfortunately completely irreconcilable with the idea of deploying only one Codex-compliant chapter to a battlefield. Even allowing 100-marine companies to fight on the same scale (but with decisively superior stats) as 10,000-trooper IG divisions, the fact that there are only 10 of them means that their only hope of victory against almost anyone is to deepstrike directly on top of enemy reinforcement points early on and hope to clear them out before they can bring a numerical advantage to bear. Ironically enough, the enemies marines are most famous for fighting (orks, Chaos, and tyranids) are also the ones they suck the most at fighting, since they all have alternative means of getting reinforcements. Especially orks.

Though the deepstriking bit is exactly how Space Marines ought to be used (see their description in GW's Inquisitor game) - and clever deployment and high mobility are the only ways of winning with them in Epic40k, too!

Personally, I find it a bit meh how some novels and certain parts of the fanbase simplify this down to the Marines simply beating anyone with brute force, when a full frontal attack would be akin to suicide. We've seen what happens when an Astartes Chapter is deprived of its advantage in mobility and reconnaisance in the case of the Celestial Lions, Emperor bless their souls.

But this, too, is a matter of preferences... The epic "immortal gods of war" version of Space Marines is very popular and, in the end, just another way of looking at the setting. A bit like comparing movies such as "Saving Private Ryan" and "300". Both are enjoyable, but use very different levels of "plot armour" for their protagonists.

Personally I'm happy with how the space marines work in my system. Consistent with older fluff, they're a first response team whose biggest advantage is their ability to be immediately deployed to the frontline instead of plodding from a reinforcement point to the battle and once deployed they can move to new battlefields faster than most other units. They additionally have an organizational advantage in that it still requires only one command to activate a space marine company even though it gives you over double the firepower. Their numbers are too limited to really win , though, not just in that the rate at which they bring in reinforcements being more limited, but also that any enemy who can survive for a few turns will run them out of reinforcements completely, so the space marines are totally dependent on the Imperial Guard (or maybe a titan legion or something) to actually win battles. I'm perfectly okay with that, happy enough that I've decided to not bother trying to fix it, but for a system that's hopefully supposed to be usable by lots of people the fact that the "space marines bail out the Imperial Guard from 'nids/orks/Chaos" plot is nearly impossible is something of a drawback.

Sounds perfect, imo!

but for a system that's hopefully supposed to be usable by lots of people the fact that the "space marines bail out the Imperial Guard from 'nids/orks/Chaos" plot is nearly impossible is something of a drawback.

I dunno, I think that would actually still be possible - under certain conditions. The Space Marines still represent the most powerful infantry unit. Square meter for square meter, the Astartes notably outdo the Guard .. not necessarily by firepower, but certainly by resilience and most often also experience. So what you need is a bottleneck a la Thermopylae, where the Space Marines can deploy and take out the approaching enemy forces squad by squad, company by company. They'd still be overrun at some point (ammunition shortages + sheer attrition), but they could buy the retreating Guard forces time to evacuate or regroup and fortify. Talk about heroic sacrifice .

Alternatively, the Marines could blow up bridges, deepstrike into nuclear generatoriums to rig them to detonate, or take out enemy commanders to stall the advance .. the list goes on.

A TT Marine player once described the M41 version of the Space Marines as a "force multiplier" that works best when used in conjunction with the Imperial Guard, and I think that's one of the best descriptions of their role, for the strengths and weaknesses of both armies complement each other perfectly.

One of the uses of Space Marines I find very underdone by GW is their ability to operate in vacuum. Guard armor isn't sealed. Well settled systems have many space installations and disabling them is probably crippling to that system's defensive infrastructure. Promethium refineries seem to be concentrated in the orbits of gas giants. I'd think many systems have power generators in close orbit around their star. High tech mining, industry, and commerce are all likely to depend on extra-main world installations that provide the components necessary for most things more complicated than a lasgun.

Indeed, they're not called Space Marines for nothing!

Granted, the Navy has its own boarding parties, too, but compared to power-armoured Astartes, in a vacuum environment they're even squishier than Guardsmen, as a single oxygen leak is all they need to be put out of action. Plus, in the often cramped environments of starship and -base corridors, a numerical advantage only adds reinforcements to replace casualties, placing even greater emphasis on the individual soldier.

3 new rants:
1. Group spends 1h just trying to decide whether to attack an enemy in silent running or not. Once I ask everyone to be quiet and point 1 of the players to make the final call, they complain my game is moving too slow on that day. wat

2. Player count average per game session: 4. Player count on our last game 8. HOW you wonder? Me too.

3. If I don't pre-build an encounter specifically suited for the seneschal, he won't do anything pro-actively the entire game.

1. Hooo boy. This is why i don't GM in my group. Because my response leans close to "rocks fall, everyone dies" in situations like that.

2. You were drunk and seeing double?

3. It's sad when that happens. Now in some games with some specialised classess you are gonna get that.

Me: "Some arbites approach you, hold up their hand, and ask you what is your business in the area. What do you say?"

<Player A turns to players B,C and D>

Player A: "So, what do we do?"

Player B: "Hmm, what about-"

Player D: "So...what's going on?"

Player C: "I TRY TO TAKE HIS GUN AND SHOOT HIM"

Player B: "Player C! No! How about-"

You are not telepathic and able to freeze time!!!

3. If I don't pre-build an encounter specifically suited for the seneschal, he won't do anything pro-actively the entire game.

I know a guy like that. Not only that but he'd actively complain about it. He doesn't get invited to games anymore.

Hey Stark...

Player A: "So, what do we do?"

Player B: "Hmm, what about-"

Player D: "So...what's going on?"

Player C: "I TRY TO TAKE HIS GUN AND SHOOT HIM"

Player B: "Player C! No! How about-"

You are not telepathic and able to freeze time!!!

I call that " No Coaching " in our group - its a house rule we carry over to any and all PNP RPGs (unless your psychic of course LOL)

Stay Gaming!

My only rant for today is - I wish Fantasy Flight Games would stop making Card Games and get Rogue Trader 2.0 going - this time making it 100% compatible with all the other 40k RPG Lines... shesh! ROTFL

How the hell do you balance this game without using the banhammer? I mean, what kind of tech use test can you give to them when they have 145 in tech use? Even more if it is opposed?

Combat is even shittier, someone gets their hands on 2 stormbolters and either you have to create a horde or a single boss that can one shot anyone, so it is a race of initiative!

I wasn't feeling how "easy" it is to get a Short Range or Point Blank Bonus when counting meters; most "indoor" locations unless massive in scale will result in such bonuses each and every fight - uuugggh, I had to adopt Combat Advantage from D&D just to remedy (in essence your not paying attention then the attacker gets their Short / Point Blank Range Bonus)... Couple the vanilla rules with Full Auto and its a wrap! <+20 Full Auto +30 Point Blank = +50 Woohoo!>

I wasn't feeling how "easy" it is to get a Short Range or Point Blank Bonus when counting meters; most "indoor" locations unless massive in scale will result in such bonuses each and every fight - uuugggh, I had to adopt Combat Advantage from D&D just to remedy (in essence your not paying attention then the attacker gets their Short / Point Blank Range Bonus)... Couple the vanilla rules with Full Auto and its a wrap! <+20 Full Auto +30 Point Blank = +50 Woohoo!>

I can under stand what you are saying but this IS the Imperium ad they aren't exactly know for small buildings. Ill grant that there are plenty of small spaces like some corridors but i recently had a gun fight on the bridge of a light cruiser and i made the bridge like 100m long and 60m wide. My players like that they move around even indoors.

My rant: Committing to the game. i dont even mean getting into the role play or understanding the universe. Ive run a couple different systems and despite the age old questions "How do you feel about the game?" and "Anything you'd like to see done differently?" i still end up with with weeks at a tie when one player or another cant come. I have even denied players who cant make it regularly.

And going back a few pages. That one player at your table who literally cannot resist the urge to use two or three components from EVERY BOOK THEY GRAB. Its always the kids who can torrent or afford to buy all the expansions too. He/She HAS to have this thing because its essential to the character in their head and they want you to know how to run all the special rules and actions for that charater.

The Lidless Eye Problem would probably get a rocks fall ending for me. "It was funny ONCE, now you are sucking the fun out of it." warnings and a penalty or two in the form of PF loss for "Fines" then some powerful friends sending assassins and just attacking their business. Ive actually nearly TPKed because the party attacked the wrong guy and pissed off a Deathcult. Dont be afraid to remind PCs that they arent the only ones out there with the money to kill and bribe their way out.

Yeah, I hope we've all been there, and it's not just me, but between people who want me to run SOMETHING, but then half don't want to play one thing (Star Wars), and the other doesn't like the alternative (D&D/PF), people who don't think they know enough about the source material (that I might not follow so closely, anyway), but certainly won't take any efforts to remedy that, that one person who wants to be something from a book I don't have, because "just a rogue", or "just a wizard" are too boring, that other person wants to play something that specifically antagonizes the group, and the final one who, while excited at charbuild time, is now either not coming, just because, brings their lap top, and doesn't really play, or wants to do other stuff in the club, this week (again), I find that more of my games don't get off the ground, then die because of player shenanigans, or my own BLAZING incompetence and ineptitude. Occasionally, that one person who is also playing, not really out of any interest, but because their sig-o is playing, and they don't want to be bored, but can't be bothered to go hang out with other friends that night, can also pull ALL the energy out of my groups. Many of these things might be fixable by pulling a gun on the offending person, and banishing them from the game, but that will usually drop the crew below my happy threshold of characters, or piss off someone else, who thought I was putting my own wants ahead of everyone at the table having fun, which is the real point of the game.

Oh well, them's the breaks, yeah?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Paranoia. Great RPG, but not of every gamenight that might be a bit much but it so delightfully effes up most notions we have of RPGs that it might be worthwile once in a while.

You are troubleshooters who are mutant traitors beloning to secret societies in a dystopian (or not) futuristic city named Alpha Complex, run by The Computer who is insane . Friend Computer will send you on missions to guard alpah complex against mutant traitor communist scum. Friend Computer will give you amazingly powerfull and efficent weapons that will blow up in your face as soon as you got them. That is if you get them at all becuase you couldn't find the equipment depot. If you should loose your life in these mission for The Computer or for your secret society then you will be revived as a clone.

The interesting bits about the game are that you don't have to worry about

• setting or metaplot.
• character development
• players VS Gm (you don't kill them, you let them kill each other)
• munchkins and loot horders
• players killing players (you get 6 lives each you'll live to take revenge)
• rules lawyers! Sez so in the game! gm section is outside player security clearance, If they argue about stuff they shouldn't know you can instakill their characters!)

You can make it as silly or serious as you like. But it works best semy silly to blow off steam.

Paranoia is fun. The Computer sais so. Unhappiness is treason. Traitors will be used as reactor shielding.

Are you happy, citizen?

Paranoia is fun. The Computer sais so. Unhappiness is treason. Traitors will be used as reactor shielding.

Are you happy, citizen?

This phrase is exactly what my buddy said pitching the game to me lol. But im poor and he hasnt boughy it so i havent been able to run it.

Paranoia is fun. The Computer sais so. Unhappiness is treason. Traitors will be used as reactor shielding.

Are you happy, citizen?

This phrase is exactly what my buddy said pitching the game to me lol. But im poor and he hasnt boughy it so i havent been able to run it.

Don't tell The Computer, but we got it from the back of the RPG book.

I was gonna sugest drivethrurpg.com but since they don't seem to have the base book... then I'll say this... You can find PDF (scan) copies online if you know where to look. (Just google paranoia pdf)

Now I'm not advocating piracy since piracy is treason but...