Interceptors have a lot of viable characters in soontir, turf, jax, royal guards...

It's just that the turret rules are so overturned/under thought that they're all waiting on auto thrusters

As for whether or not the x wing should be the work horse, the game doesn't have to stick to the fluff 100% nor should it be a priority over the needs of the game itself.

Overall, the x wing is a solid ship with a lot of solid options available. Any supposed fixes for it would only come well down the line, because there are plenty of other pilots in more dire straits even after the advances needed fix (Knave).

Unlike the poor bomber, which is basically scimatar or bust unless youre built for jonus or are certifiably insane (rhymer)

But Rhymer looks better in Epic too.

The right tool for the job.

As for bloating due to bandages once every (small) ship has a non-unique Title upgrade to their name is the time that they should start looking to errata'ing points.

Well we've had Imperial Aces which was supposed to fix the interceptor. But now we're also getting Autothusters which are also needed to fix the interceptor.

We have the A-Wing refit, yet it's questionable if they're really fixed or not yet, so we'll need more upgrades for them.

When we start looking at 4-6 fixes for each ship, then clearly something is wrong, something that could've been fixed a lot easier.

I'm failing to see how the X-Wing is worse than the Bomber.

As for bloating due to bandages once every (small) ship has a non-unique Title upgrade to their name is the time that they should start looking to errata'ing points.

Well we've had Imperial Aces which was supposed to fix the interceptor. But now we're also getting Autothusters which are also needed to fix the interceptor.We have the A-Wing refit, yet it's questionable if they're really fixed or not yet, so we'll need more upgrades for them.When we start looking at 4-6 fixes for each ship, then clearly something is wrong, something that could've been fixed a lot easier.

Aye, like making turrets more reasonable so we wouldn't have to fix the interceptor in the first place

And ACD too, I guess, since it does skew the game to high PS or bust.

Interceptors have a lot of viable characters in soontir, turf, jax, royal guards...

It's just that the turret rules are so overturned/under thought that they're all waiting on auto thrusters

As for whether or not the x wing should be the work horse, the game doesn't have to stick to the fluff 100% nor should it be a priority over the needs of the game itself.

Overall, the x wing is a solid ship with a lot of solid options available. Any supposed fixes for it would only come well down the line, because there are plenty of other pilots in more dire straits even after the advances needed fix (Knave).

I'd argue that some of the aims of balancing the X-wing actually go hand in hand with the needs of the game itself.

I don't want to get into a debate about individual ships (I disagree with you on the bomber, for example, and don't think the interceptor is as bad as others -- I ran Jax at worlds) but there are named pilots that are seen far more frequently with more success than their generics because of their ability.

Aye, like making turrets more reasonable so we wouldn't have to fix the interceptor in the first place

I agree actually, it would of been better for them to change Turrets so arc dodging wasn't quite so pointless then to add another upgrade.

Maybe its time for the ....

Rogue Squadron Pilot card

PS5 or PS6? But at least one EPT.

New Rogue Squadron only droids: If you get stress, you get one evade.

Would this make you Rebels happy?

No, it's not even remotely enough at this point. The Tie Advanced had a pretty radical fix. The X-Wing won't need as much as that, but it does need something that does not come in form of a new pilot or a new droid!

As i explained earlier, it's the ship itself that is flawed. It needs either some better movement options, something to make it a lot tankier, or it needs to get cheaper. And if you do that by removing the astromech because you have one that is now mandatory to be competitive, then you kill the diversity of viable builds after fix by an unacceptable amount. If it's a new Pilot as a fix, well then you just have a situation where the rest of them is obsolete.

They didn't fix the advanced by just giving it a new missile option or a new pilot either. They camre up with something new, that also makes sense on top and is a great help for the Advanced. They need to do the same with the X-Wing, just a little less radical.

A proposition would be a discount on Modifications for instance. Would make sense because the Rebels certainly heavily modified their ships, especially the X-Wing.

Title: Customized X-Wing (or whatever you want to name it really)

Squad point Cost 0

X-Wing only.

Modifications cost 2 squad points less for this ship.

Then they create 2 new Modifications along with it that are X-Wing only.

One that gives you barrel roll for let's say 2-3 points, and one that gives you the evade action, or a free evade per turn for 2, respectively 4 points. They could also take engine Upgrade at a disocount if they wanted like that.

That would probably be some kind of fix for the X-Wing that is similar to the Advanced, and would not be totally overkill as a buff.

Aye, like making turrets more reasonable so we wouldn't have to fix the interceptor in the first place

I agree actually, it would of been better for them to change Turrets so arc dodging wasn't quite so pointless then to add another upgrade.

Chop one agility die off of cloak andcerrata the auto thrusters out of arc advantage into the base rules of the game (specifying primary wep to not **** over ys, hwks, near, or outrider which has a range 1 weakness at least)

Done and done. 3 dice ships wontvrun into a 4 green wall when they predict the phantom and their natural bulk plus 2 base agility would make them nice efficient counters to turreted ships

Aye, like making turrets more reasonable so we wouldn't have to fix the interceptor in the first place

I agree actually, it would of been better for them to change Turrets so arc dodging wasn't quite so pointless then to add another upgrade.

Yeah okay that would help some, but then shortly after we will need to hit the Phantom with the nerf-bat very hard, because that would also help a lot of other ships to find their place again in the meta!

Aye, like making turrets more reasonable so we wouldn't have to fix the interceptor in the first place

I agree actually, it would of been better for them to change Turrets so arc dodging wasn't quite so pointless then to add another upgrade.

Basically. If you drop the two dominating ships to a more reasonable level, we'll get our variety back much more easily than upgrade bloat.

Chop one agility die off of cloak andcerrata the auto thrusters out of arc advantage into the base rules of the game (specifying primary wep to not **** over us, hwks, near, or outrider which has a range 1 weakness at least)

Done and done. 3 dice ships wontvrun into a 4 green wall when they predict the phantom and their natural bulk plus 2 base agility would make them nice efficient counters to turreted ships

I pretty much agree with this, not with the individual ideas so much, but with the general Idea to bring Phantoms and turrets a bit down to earth again. How exactly you do this is another question, but that can be subject to discussion!

But in case of the X-Wing, i would find it very unfair not to buff it now, because the Advanced will be superior to it in pretty much every single way, for 1 more squad point only (with the title and the advanced computer on board). That's not fair, regardless if they nerf Phantoms and turrets or not!

The advance buff is slightly mis-understood in regards to the atc.

The guaranteed crit is money, but remember that's only on a target locked ship (and the lock cannot be spent if atc is used for the attack). This makes it an easier said than down situation on the generics and lower PS pilots.

Now ac generics are going to be sweet, but its damage potential is capped at 2 (not counting lucky range 1) so 3 dice ships have the chance to exceed that output (which is very important when trying to punch through lots of green dice).

So yeah, praise the ffg gods and all their glory for this awesome fix, but don't over estimate it

Pointing out that the Xwing has great pilot abilities doesn't mean much. Again, would you take Wedge if he were the same cost on say, a B-wing? In fact, which would you rather have? Wedge on a B-wing, X-wing, or even an E-wing for say 34 points? Would you still take Biggs if he was on a Y-wing for, what's the math there, uh, 22 pts? Would Tarn be worth anymore if he were on an E-wing at the same PS but with a 4 pt increase? Hell, would you still take those guys if they were on Z-95's?

Put it another way, what happens to these fantastic pilots when you get the Injured Pilot Critical? You have to factor the base ship into play, unless the Pilot ability changes its core characteristics in some way. Saying that Biggs is a good example of why the Xwing isn't kinda meh means jack squat when he'd still be phenomenal on ANY ship in the game.

Astromechs will never fix the problem for the reasons posted above, anything good will auto eliminate all the other choices.


And as much as it puts people panties in a twist, I firmly believe once wave 6 comes out and we get a Scum Epic and probably a Wave 7 release we will see some sort of X-wing 2nd Edition. They simply can't afford not to. That'll be a 3 year run for a product that has now become a flagship brand for them. That's a pretty good time frame for a game that evolves as quickly as this one. 2nd edition will allow them to do an actual repair job on all these cracks that have been appearing, not the bandages they've been doing.

So I'm putting my money that by this time next year we'll get the announcement for 2nd Edition, due out by summer of 2016, barring any boats sinking. >_<

Pointing out that the Xwing has great pilot abilities doesn't mean much. Again, would you take Wedge if he were the same cost on say, a B-wing? In fact, which would you rather have? Wedge on a B-wing, X-wing, or even an E-wing for say 34 points? Would you still take Biggs if he was on a Y-wing for, what's the math there, uh, 22 pts? Would Tarn be worth anymore if he were on an E-wing at the same PS but with a 4 pt increase? Hell, would you still take those guys if they were on Z-95's?

Our choice in the matter is irrelevant because we are not given that option. Wedge Biggs etc ARE x wings, no if and or buts.

Thank god too, cause then it'd be nothing but double action phantoms or Jake tro-lo-loing in a falcon.

Also there are two IP crits, you're not likely to see them.

Edit: edited for phone problems

Pointing out that the Xwing has great pilot abilities doesn't mean much. Again, would you take Wedge if he were the same cost on say, a B-wing? In fact, which would you rather have? Wedge on a B-wing, X-wing, or even an E-wing for say 34 points? Would you still take Biggs if he was on a Y-wing for, what's the math there, uh, 22 pts? Would Tarn be worth anymore if he were on an E-wing at the same PS but with a 4 pt increase? Hell, would you still take those guys if they were on Z-95's?

Put it another way, what happens to these fantastic pilots when you get the Injured Pilot Critical? You have to factor the base ship into play, unless the Pilot ability changes its core characteristics in some way. Saying that Biggs is a good example of why the Xwing isn't kinda meh means jack squat when he'd still be phenomenal on ANY ship in the game.

Astromechs will never fix the problem for the reasons posted above, anything good will auto eliminate all the other choices.

And as much as it puts people panties in a twist, I firmly believe once wave 6 comes out and we get a Scum Epic and probably a Wave 7 release we will see some sort of X-wing 2nd Edition. They simply can't afford not to. That'll be a 3 year run for a product that has now become a flagship brand for them. That's a pretty good time frame for a game that evolves as quickly as this one. 2nd edition will allow them to do an actual repair job on all these cracks that have been appearing, not the bandages they've been doing.

So I'm putting my money that by this time next year we'll get the announcement for 2nd Edition, due out by summer of 2016, barring any boats sinking. >_<

But, there has been good evidence that good pilot abilities do not necessarily save a ship. Look at all the talk about Vader not saving the Advance (which I disagree with). Or the dismissal of the Defenders. Or the E-wings, despite the uniques seeing good results.

The issue I think, is that people have too narrow a view on what is considered playable. Especially as FFG closes the gaps. Not all ships will be the same. Not all ships have to conform to a mathematical jousting formula. It is okay to have ships that have a narrow role in the game.

A 2nd edition is not happening, or at least not in the way some want it to. It goes against FFG's philosophy on what constitutes a need for a 2nd edition. At best, we will be getting a tightened up rulebook.

Pointing out that the Xwing has great pilot abilities doesn't mean much. Again, would you take Wedge if he were the same cost on say, a B-wing? In fact, which would you rather have? Wedge on a B-wing, X-wing, or even an E-wing for say 34 points? Would you still take Biggs if he was on a Y-wing for, what's the math there, uh, 22 pts? Would Tarn be worth anymore if he were on an E-wing at the same PS but with a 4 pt increase? Hell, would you still take those guys if they were on Z-95's?

Put it another way, what happens to these fantastic pilots when you get the Injured Pilot Critical? You have to factor the base ship into play, unless the Pilot ability changes its core characteristics in some way. Saying that Biggs is a good example of why the Xwing isn't kinda meh means jack squat when he'd still be phenomenal on ANY ship in the game.

Astromechs will never fix the problem for the reasons posted above, anything good will auto eliminate all the other choices.

And as much as it puts people panties in a twist, I firmly believe once wave 6 comes out and we get a Scum Epic and probably a Wave 7 release we will see some sort of X-wing 2nd Edition. They simply can't afford not to. That'll be a 3 year run for a product that has now become a flagship brand for them. That's a pretty good time frame for a game that evolves as quickly as this one. 2nd edition will allow them to do an actual repair job on all these cracks that have been appearing, not the bandages they've been doing.

So I'm putting my money that by this time next year we'll get the announcement for 2nd Edition, due out by summer of 2016, barring any boats sinking. >_<

But, there has been good evidence that good pilot abilities do not necessarily save a ship. Look at all the talk about Vader not saving the Advance (which I disagree with). Or the dismissal of the Defenders. Or the E-wings, despite the uniques seeing good results.

The issue I think, is that people have too narrow a view on what is considered playable. Especially as FFG closes the gaps. Not all ships will be the same. Not all ships have to conform to a mathematical jousting formula. It is okay to have ships that have a narrow role in the game.

A 2nd edition is not happening, or at least not in the way some want it to. It goes against FFG's philosophy on what constitutes a need for a 2nd edition. At best, we will be getting a tightened up rulebook.

How is a 2nd edition against their design philosophy? Do you pay any attention to their RPG's? Or how they are handling their LCGs? The idea that FFG will "never" do a 2nd edition is ludicrous. Games like this have life cycles, and the good game companies are the ones that effectively adapt the product overtime.

I don't want to see X-wing turn into the bloated monstrosity 40k became, where you had at one point armies that hadn't gotten updates in over 10 years, so they then decided to update them every other year.

This entire debate is moot. There really is no awful ship like the advanced was xwing, tie bomber etc. they all might be a bit weaker but still see competitive play.

At the same token I don't think a minor upgrade such as a title would hurt either ship or make balance as screwed up as this last year was. I was upset about how broken wave 4 through wave 5 made bakance this last year however I think wave 6 and the advance fix and new crew will shore up a lot of the major issues. I also felt that the decimator builds is inferior to dash and Han however the key to that ship is the crew upgrades available to him. And I have no doubt we will see the decimator improved via the new Crew choices as well.

Anyway the real reason this debate is moot is because the xwing and bomber wil see upgrades in the future the issue is not if but when.

No, I am not saying that it isn't possible. But this soon, while the game is still so big, means it isn't happening soon.

They have said sales are a big reason for a 2nd Edition. Stop a game and then restart it. And unlike AGOT LCG, this game does not have fundamental flaws in the game that needs to be fixed with a 2nd edition. About the only thing needed is a slight tightening of the rulebook to make it more ready for tournament play.

4 x Tempest + Title + ATC + Hull Upgrade

vs

4 x Rookie + Shield Upgrade

...

and the winner is?

Do you know it?

4 x Tempest + Title + ATC + Hull Upgrade

vs

4 x Rookie + Shield Upgrade

...

and the winner is?

Do you know it?

Whatever the dice say?

Hull upgrade? I would give them stealth device...

4 x Tempest + Title + ATC + Hull Upgrade

vs

4 x Rookie + Shield Upgrade

...

and the winner is?

Do you know it?

Shield Upgrade <<< Engine Upgrade

Similarly, if I'm already not going to be 1-shot, I'd prefer a Stealth Device over a Hull Upgrade.

Engine upgrade X vs stealth upgrade advance sounds like a close fight.

With the extra crit though I think the advanced has it, but it's close.

Of course if you swap one of those X's for a Y-wing/ion turret, suddenly very different.

...we will see some sort of X-wing 2nd Edition.

This is going to be very hard for them to do. They've really painted themselves into a corner with the hybrid minis/LCG model. The cards are a major driver in purchases, but I doubt people are going to be thrilled at having to buy another full set of models they already have to get the new cards. Likewise, as much as players may want it FFG has shown zero inclination to release standalone cards, and they almost certainly won't do it in a way that completely invalidates the card distribution model.

4 x Tempest + Title + ATC + Hull Upgrade

vs

4 x Rookie + Shield Upgrade

...

and the winner is?

Do you know it?

So the winner is unclear?

Because of what?

Because the Tie Advanced actually are what they were meant to in the first time ... an equal match to the X-Wings.

Tadaa!