Couldn't.

If you're saying I should be speaking past tense... Vader didn't fix the advanced, FFG did by boosting the power of the ship over all. But Vader in an Advanced without the title is not going to make the advanced any better than it was.

Which is IMO pretty firm proof of why the generic ship matters, because if that isn't balanced and/or worth the points, the best pilots in the game are still going to cost more points than they're worth.

The fact that a given pilots ability makes the ship useful doesn't change the problems with the ship itself. Darth Vader is considered one of the best ships in the game, yet even he can't make the Advanced worth flying.

Define "worth flying". Because I love my Vader w/Engine and Outmaneuver.

AlexW, i think the issue with some costs, and pilots who have good abilities but are not that good in the field due to how costly it gets compared to the generic, comes from FFG pricing model on PS. Not every ship values PS equally. But this happens to upgrades in the game too, and i guess making a more fair pricing system would be too taxing for them.

The fact that a given pilots ability makes the ship useful doesn't change the problems with the ship itself. Darth Vader is considered one of the best ships in the game, yet even he can't make the Advanced worth flying.

Define "worth flying". Because I love my Vader w/Engine and Outmaneuver.

So you are saying it's not overpriced ?

Define "worth flying".

Ok Lets rephrase that to tournament viable. Vader being the only Tie Advanced to ever show up in one that I know of, and it was quite the buzz to actually see any advanced. Even then it didn't even do that well.

Hmm, has it been brought up that in Epic, the X-wing is much more resistant to single turbolasers than the B? That's something that I always found amusing - a gunboat CR90 tends to do better shooting at rebels than shooting at imperials, at least until recently. I suppose the decimator and resurgent shuttle have changed that, to say nothing of the upcoming raider.

It is a Strawman to build an argument without considering all the options. It's a false premise to equate a fighters value with the lowest denominator. Because a fighters value can't be considered without thinking of their pilots, we should be quite pleased with the xwing since 8 of its 10 pilots are quite viable. To me, that's saying something. If what you say is true, Vanor, then, we should take a serious look at the TIE fighter. I mean, Winged Gundark exists...

This is on a smartphone. Paragraph structure is lacking.

Couldn't.

If you're saying I should be speaking past tense... Vader didn't fix the advanced, FFG did by boosting the power of the ship over all. But Vader in an Advanced without the title is not going to make the advanced any better than it was.

Which is IMO pretty firm proof of why the generic ship matters, because if that isn't balanced and/or worth the points, the best pilots in the game are still going to cost more points than they're worth.

I am saying that with the fix, Vader can make the Advanced worth flying. The fact that other pilots can do so as well is immaterial

It is a Strawman to build an argument without considering all the options.

No it is not.

It's a false premise to equate a fighters value with the lowest denominator.

Again, no it is not. Because the lowest denominator is still an option in the game. If the base ship with no upgrades or special abilities isn't worth taking, then it is going to be very hard to make any pilot on the ship worth the points, unless a given pilot is over powered/low cost enough to overcome the inherent weakness in the ship.

I will again point out that FFG themselves agree that the X-Wing is a bit underpowered.

I am saying that with the fix, Vader can make the Advanced worth flying.

But Vader doesn't do anything for the Tie Advanced then he did before the title comes out. He has added nothing new to the ship, so he has fixed nothing himself.

[anecdotalevidence]

I enjoyed my best result at a tourney so far only two months ago flying a XXXX list. Wedge, Biggs, two Rookies. Phantom and turret heavy environment, too. I finished 4-1, losing to the beaten finalist in the penultimate round.

I love X-Wings.

[/anecdotalevidence]

x-wings are cool ships, they do well on the table and I don't think anyone can argue against that, or you just don't know how to fly them.

I remember when people would ***** about how horrible the interceptor was before aces came out. I won a tournament in a turret heavy setting, one guy I beat with 4 turrets didn't even kill 1 of my squints. point is, in the end you make the ship what it is. yes stats play a big role, but you must learn the capabilities of your ships and play to their strengths and stay away from their weaknesses.

I loved splitting my squints up across the table edge, I never started in formation, and my opponent didn't know what I was doing. he would have his tight little group, and when I hit him from 3 sides all at once and he had shots at 1 maybe 2 ships at range 3.

the advanced was the only exception to this that I could see. you didn't get your points worth for it. it will be better now,

x-wings journey to the dark side will be complete.........

I was thinking about different titles for the X-Wing. something like these:

#1 - cost: 2 - add 1 hull and the boost action

#2 - cost: 0 - equip any type of torpedoes for just 1 pt

Not viable?

I was thinking about different titles for the X-Wing. something like these:

#1 - cost: 2 - add 1 hull and the boost action

#2 - cost: 0 - equip any type of torpedoes for just 1 pt

Not viable?

First one isn't...that's an awful lot to give for only 2pts...

also, from a background perspective I don't think the xwing was speedy insight to justify boost.

Second one works for me...torpedoes being what they are.

Does it need to be viable in a tournament only? Why not just play with them without worrying all the time about tournament only applications?

Re: Topic

Wah.

Here's a weird idea for a x-wing only upgrade, kind of based off the pc games.

So in the pc games, you could fire your quad lasers one at a time, two at a time, or all 4 at once. It was a trade off between firing rate and "punch" when hitting a target. Firing one at a time meant you were more likely to hit, but might not do much damage, vs firing all at once which could one shot a tie, but the slow firing rate meant you were more likely to miss a moving target.

To translate it to the game, let's assume the normal firing rate for the xwing is 2 lasers at a time. Now give it a upgrade called fire linked lasers or something. When attacking, you may increase your attack dice by 1, but your target must also do the same for their defensive dice.

Would give a little bit more punch, without being too overpowered.

I have to say that having rewathced them recently i no longer totally despise the prequels and i think there are some cool ship designs in there.

I think you could put the cooler designs from the ships and the comics that are 'pre rebellion' easily into the game by making them S&V ships.

The z95 is *ancient* in design terms and star wars lore... but we have it in the game.

No reason why some systems wouldnt have old ARC170s or Nimbus fighters still in service.

They would have to be on a par with Z95s or Y wings though as it would be crazy for thm to be better stat wise than new stuf.

or maybe not.... stuff built in times of war is often 'economised' compared to pre war builds as there are more resources and less need to mass produce.

Real world parralell would be WWII. Late war german tanks lacked electric turrer traverse on some that *should* have had it as they had ran out of copper wire, tracks lacked rubber tracks pads (rubber was so scare some boots had wooden soles).

Soviet T34s were often driven out of the factory unpaintd and without full fitting of optics as they were rushed out, its a 'cutting edge' tank design for 1941/42 but totally 'no frills' and spartan inside... put it this way there is no crew station padding.. they pad the driver!

Except the z-95 isn't really a prequel design it first appeared in EU books and the look we have is from a 90s game tie fighter, same with the firespray.

The older ships all existed before the prequels and featured in various media before anyone even knew Lucas planned those atrocities.

The Z-95 showed up in the Clone Wars cartoon. So it's canon that it goes back that far.

I posted this in a different thread but feel it is relevant to this discussion as well...food for thought...

I remember a time when everyone was complaining that the game was all about pushing as many generics as you could fit into a list around. Much adoo was made about high pilot skill not being worth it and people never using the iconic named pilots. So the devs instituted changed that benefited those high PS pilots over their generic counterparts...now we have people whining that their generics are passed over.

And now the circle is complete.

IMHO I preferred the mostly generic games...heroes aren't going to be in every battle. But the player base got exactly what they asked for...and the grass is always greener on the other side.

Some of the newer people may not have known this...but about a year ago people here were arguing for the opposite of what people seem to be arguing for now...

I think you misunderstand what people actually wanted. Players wanted to see some balance so that there was a meaningful competitive tradeoff between cheap generics and better named pilots. What we've done instead is swing completely the opposite direction, with anything below PS 9 considered a risky investment.

If this is giving people what they wanted, we're living in one of those humorous stories where the genie takes the wish too literally.

I think you misunderstand what people actually wanted. Players wanted to see some balance so that there was a meaningful competitive tradeoff between cheap generics and better named pilots. What we've done instead is swing completely the opposite direction, with anything below PS 9 considered a risky investment.

If this is giving people what they wanted, we're living in one of those humorous stories where the genie takes the wish too literally.

Its still funny to me to see the opposite of then being recommended now though...

I think we can both agree that this will balance out in the end?

I am really getting annoyed by a few typical posts here:

1) "Yeah no the X-Wing is great. It looks so cool and that one time i beat somebody using an X-Wing so the ship must be fine. Man i even saw somebody using an X-Wing in a tournament so it must be awesome!"

I have at least seen 10 people here post that the X-Eing is a "great" ship. And they don't explain why and at the very best they will give anecdotical evidence (which is okay, everybody can only speak from his experience) that is on top very vaguely formulated and most of the time just shows they have not been using X-Wings against any meta lists and/or decent players.

2) "But they can't give it a simple x point discount! That would enable you to field FIVE of them!!!"

And why the **** not? That would not even be a top tier list! Plus they did it on the A-Wing. While i do think there are more elegant ways of buffing the ship a bit, i would not mind if they just said: Torpedo launcher gone, -2 Points!

3) "The Advanced was at the bottom for 2 years now, so now it's the X-Wings turn!"

What are you? Little children? You acknowledge that the ship is having problems and write that the problem should not be adressed. Are you seriously looking for revenge on the X-Wing here? I prefer no faction really and i play both regularly. I can understand if someone says that he is an Imperial or Rebel only. But to then come to this forum and try to influence people and FFG so they don't buff a ship just because it's of the other faction, that's just incredibly low!

4) "Not every ship needs to be competitive. You can always field X-Wings while playing thematic or just because they look cool. Oh yeah and in friendly games when you decide to make crappy lists on purpose! You should try that, it's fun!"

Now that's so dumb i am gasping for words. Balance is the key to a good game. That is true for competitive gameplay, where you can have bad matchups with a certain list against certain others. But what you can't have is ships that are just so bad it makes no sense taking them! And that's also the case for casual gameplay. If a game is wildly unbalanced, even the most friendly of players will notice pretty quickly that the stuff he picks is just inferior to some other stuff, and that's where the fun ends!

5) reserved for more stuff

I honestly think the simple addition of a barrel roll to the Xwing's action bar would make it viable again in the current meta. Plus, the x-wings are seen barrel rolling in the movies!

easy 'title' fix that one.

'Yavin refit' 0 points, lets you barrel roll

easy 'title' fix that one.

'Yavin refit' 0 points, lets you barrel roll

easy 'title' fix that one.

'Yavin refit' 0 points, lets you barrel roll

Yes, try spinning, that's a good trick.