It is my hope that FFG will obtain licensing rights to the prequels within the next couple of years so that we can have Republic and Seperatist factions. I know a lot of people hate the prequels, myself included, but the starfighters in those movies were actually pretty cool, and they would bring a lot of potential to the table with generic Clone/Jedi/Droid pilots.

If FFG can't get licensing to the newer movies, in a few years they will be stuck either rereleasing old ships with new upgrades, or making up their own ships.

But what does any of this have to do with the X-Wing being a viable ship?

They already have the rights to the prequels. Their license is all inclusive. I think Christian Peterson even confirmed this at Gencon. You can see plenty of PT imagery in their other games. They just choose not to make PT games, rightly assuming that it is a bit of a divisive issue. And the powers at top are refocusing on the OT for the new movies.

well a Rookie pilot is still better than an Alpha Squadron pilot for 18 points.

I disagree. Although the Interceptor is arguably also overprices by a point, i still think it's a better ship than the Rookie. It's just higher risk/higher reward. You can get oneshot pretty hard, but you have more potential to outmaneuver and dodge. And lets not forget, the alpha does cost 3 less!

An Alpha + stealth device is statistically superior to the xwing even jousting.

b.) I'm aware of the cost efficiency, but not exactly how that's relevant when rebels don't have the option of flying him/her

It's relevant because you need to compare your ships efficiency to what an opponent is likely to bring to determine how well your ship/squad is going to do. If your opponent's ships are more efficient than yours at maximizing how much damage they deal vs how much damage they take, then you're going to struggle. If you want to compare "Apples to Apples" so to speak, then I would again bring up B-Wing with a heavy laser cannon. Both Wedge and HLC Blue are 29 points, but the Blue is more durable under focused fire and has a similar effect to Wedge at ranges 2 and 3, even being better than Wedge at Range 3.

I've never advocated reissuing ships in any of my posts, i'm not sure where you guys keep getting that.

But then, what problem does your 2.0 solve if there is a conversion kit? And the old players don't have to buy anything new.

What if they made a Refit Sets for each faction? Price them at say... 20-30 bucks? Includes a bunch of spare tokens and stands, and has 2 of each Generic and 1 Named pilot for each ship with the revised rules. All new print runs of ships get adjusted rules and maybe better balanced upgrade card layouts so you don't have to buy things you don't want for the things you critically need.

Bam.

Older players get their fixes, newer players hopefully don't have to buy 3 Slave-1's so they can get a bunch of stealth devices.

Combine it with a new Core Set 2.0

I'm sorry but i really don't see why people are so dead set against it. Literally every other successful collectible game of ANY kind goes through this process.

???

Is my calling it 2.0 causing some kind of confusion? I used the term 2nd edition as well. Any game that goes through a drastic update, which this would entail, gets some kind of moniker. Why would you think i advocated just wiping the slate clean entirely? Read the posts ffs.

It is my hope that FFG will obtain licensing rights to the prequels within the next couple of years so that we can have Republic and Seperatist factions. I know a lot of people hate the prequels, myself included, but the starfighters in those movies were actually pretty cool, and they would bring a lot of potential to the table with generic Clone/Jedi/Droid pilots.

If FFG can't get licensing to the newer movies, in a few years they will be stuck either rereleasing old ships with new upgrades, or making up their own ships.

But what does any of this have to do with the X-Wing being a viable ship?

They already have the rights to the prequels. Their license is all inclusive. I think Christian Peterson even confirmed this at Gencon. You can see plenty of PT imagery in their other games. They just choose not to make PT games, rightly assuming that it is a bit of a divisive issue. And the powers at top are refocusing on the OT for the new movies.

I hope eventually they cave, the battle over Couruscant in EP III is one of my favorite scenes in all the movies, and I never really got anything out of the starfighter scenes in the OT, even as a little kid growing up in the 90s. I'm probably one of the few people that play this game just because I like the rules and I like the dogfighting aspect and not because I'm a rabid fan of the OT starfighters and novels.

I patiently await the day when I can put ARC-170s, ETA-2s and V-Wing starfighters onto the table. They'll do it eventually, they know it's better than just making up their own starfighters.

Right now, the competitive X-Wing meta is composed of 3 tiers of strategies that sometimes overlap in the same list: Turret ships that are very hard to kill (Fat Falcons, Decimator & Slippery Dash), High PS Arc Dodgers (Soontir & Phantoms), and Swarms (TIE Fighters & Z-95s).

To be competitive in the current meta, you need to be able to beat at least 2 out of these 3 strategies.

X-Wings, as a ship, get pooped on by all 3 strategies, possibly because FFG was using the X-Wing as their practice dummy ship when they were developing their new ships for competitive play. X-Wings can't field enough ships to block actions and effectively spread their arcs against more maneuverable ships, they are costed in a way that they can't bring enough ships to break through the Fat Turrets defenses before they start losing firepower, and they cannot match the efficiency that TIE Fighters and Z-95s bring to the table when they show up in high numbers and focus their attacks.

Losing an X-Wing is losing a big chunk of your offensive power and points investment, and that's not good when you consider how squishy X-Wings are under attack from multiple ships and how easy it is for a player to focus all their attacks on a single ship with a predictable movement pattern. X-Wings are costed like a B-Wing, but they fly and die like a Z-95. If 3 Bandits at 36 points fought 2 Rookies at 42 points, I'd bet the bandits would win that over half the time, which is sad.

If I could have my way, here's how I would fix the X-Wing. T-65 Refit 0 points Title- non-unique B-Wing only: You may use an X-Wing model instead of a B-Wing model on your ship's base.

That's it! Clever TVboy!

No one can ever say that TV makes our kids stupid anymore, and he is the proof!

Fickle he is still flying an Xwing so nowadays it is pretty easy to get the jump on him, or arc dodge him completely. Wedge is as good as how many times he gets to shoot, and he is pretty darn expensive for what he brings to the table. Compare it to a whisper, who is 3 points more expensive for example and you should already spot how poorly he is costed nowadays or how underpriced the phantom is, nevertheless, any future release will have to deal with the phantom's cost.

Actually, the base cost of whisper is 3 points more expensive. The actual cost difference is 8, at the absolute minimum, and realistically more around 13 once the system and crew slots are filled in. After filling in Wedge with Predator, the difference normalizes to 10 not counting the extra points the phantom player shaved off to secure initiative. That's basically an extra bandit.

Honestly, I've never had any problems with Whisper. Linear de-cloaks are incredibly predictable and cannot reach ships directly behind them, and the phantom does not enjoy taking Wedge's fire.

The problem I believe seems to come from the Phantom/Falcon mind-set of ALL THE THINGS on the same ship. The x-wing is not a ship you lather points onto because it does not have the same performance ceiling that phantoms/falcons have when fully kited out. They preform best when modestly upgraded, so that they're not one giant squishy target begging to get taken out.

The Falcon is the ship you pour points into or, if you want a small ship, the E-wing.

Fickle, i have no idea what you are smoking, but it must alter the cardboard of your maneuvers somehow... I find no other explanation for what you are telling me here!

When i fly Whisper, Wedge gets one shot at me... maybe... and only if my opponent outguesses me on the initial joust massively and while having VI in that exact combination. If not, i will just bypass the enemy and not accept a joust, or i decloak->move-> roll out of Wedges arc if i see the possibility and there is nothing in hell he can do about it in almost any case.

And even if he gets a shot he usually will not onehit me. Wedge usually runs predator and rarely VI too, which means i do have initiative (i usually bid 2-3 points for it when running whisper) The chances for Wedge or Wes killing Whisper on first approach are extremely slim, and if they dont run VI they are inexistent. After that they don't get a shot at him if i don't make any really massive mistake. And that's the end of the story!

I have been on the receiving end of this too, and it's not funny flying any X-Wing against a Phantom. The best thing you can do is divide your firepower and point ships in different directions so Whisper can't dodge all of your arcs. Often he will manage to anyway, and even if not it's still usually not enough to stop him with 1 shot per turn, barring extremely lucky vs extremely unlucky dice rolls.

Speaking of lucky dice rolls, i could also mention that once or twice i have oneshot Wedge with Whisper. It happens! 5 hits at R1, two blanks, i cloak, he explodes!

Wow! Not only is the forum filled with game design experts, now we have master marketers and titans of business!

Wow! Not only is the forum filled with game design experts, now we have master marketers and titans of business!

Was wondering when you were going to show up with your complete lack of constructive input.

It is my hope that FFG will obtain licensing rights to the prequels within the next couple of years so that we can have Republic and Seperatist factions. I know a lot of people hate the prequels, myself included, but the starfighters in those movies were actually pretty cool, and they would bring a lot of potential to the table with generic Clone/Jedi/Droid pilots.

If FFG can't get licensing to the newer movies, in a few years they will be stuck either rereleasing old ships with new upgrades, or making up their own ships.

But what does any of this have to do with the X-Wing being a viable ship?

They already have the rights to the prequels. Their license is all inclusive. I think Christian Peterson even confirmed this at Gencon. You can see plenty of PT imagery in their other games. They just choose not to make PT games, rightly assuming that it is a bit of a divisive issue. And the powers at top are refocusing on the OT for the new movies.

I hope eventually they cave, the battle over Couruscant in EP III is one of my favorite scenes in all the movies, and I never really got anything out of the starfighter scenes in the OT, even as a little kid growing up in the 90s. I'm probably one of the few people that play this game just because I like the rules and I like the dogfighting aspect and not because I'm a rabid fan of the OT starfighters and novels.

I patiently await the day when I can put ARC-170s, ETA-2s and V-Wing starfighters onto the table. They'll do it eventually, they know it's better than just making up their own starfighters.

FFG and Disney are both aware that the prequel trilogy have no where near the popularity of the OT, and are in fact widely regarded with disdain at best and in other cases outright hate.

A game called naboo starfighter would not of sold anywhere near as well as x-wing has, you talk about x-wing or tie fighter video games and people will smile and remember it fondly, talk about naboo starfighter the game they'll give you a blank stare.

Alot of us old farts want nothing to do with the prequels and would never have bought in so heavily if it wasn't based around the EU.

@ ForceM: You make a good point re: astromechs. So to counter I suggest rather than one new astromech that is just "the answer", perhaps a few different options that are all at R2-D2 power levels, which will continue the XWing (and EWings) place as a (slightly fragile) toolbox / customisable option within a list.

@ ForceM: You make a good point re: astromechs. So to counter I suggest rather than one new astromech that is just "the answer", perhaps a few different options that are all at R2-D2 power levels, which will continue the XWing (and EWings) place as a (slightly fragile) toolbox / customisable option within a list.

I still don't think so. The old astromechs will fall out of favor if you do that, because you either need to make them free or dirt-cheap with very powerful effect to actually balance the X-Wing with the other ships. And that will mean that the older astromechs will be overcosted. Therefore i find it a bad idea to try and buff the X-Wing by astromechs because i like the old ones, and if they were actually on a better ship, they would be worth all their points!

They could do just basic R2 astros included for free on all X-wings with a "whatever" mod. Advanced Astromech Socket or some such.

It fixes their cost-efficiency and their maneuverability issues with one card, and functions similarly but not nearly as drastically as the advanced X1

It would also open up stress-inducing EPTs (Expert Handling, Opportunist, etc.) with a mitigated consequence.

They could do just basic R2 astros included for free on all X-wings with a "whatever" mod. Advanced Astromech Socket or some such.

It fixes their cost-efficiency and their maneuverability issues with one card, and functions similarly but not nearly as drastically as the advanced X1

It would also open up stress-inducing EPTs (Expert Handling, Opportunist, etc.) with a mitigated consequence.

A title along the lines of APT and X1:

Cost: 0

Text: add 1 Atromech slot to your upgrade bar.

If your second Astromech does not have a "•" reduce it's cost by 2 (minimum 0).

A/N: Fluff wise it's still 1 Astromech socket for the ship, the droid has just developed extra personality

They could use a similar fix to the advanced ... ie a title that cheapens an astromech upgrade....

But what I've liked most about the way FFG has "fixed" ships is that they've used different methods for each ship (and kept it flavourful).

To those talking second edition... I doubt they'll go that direction for a long time. As of 2015 they'll have a new 'cannon' movie per year through till 2020 to feed off of... not to mention Rebels.

Beyond that, FFG has been releasing old cards that are "necessary" in newer products and Aces packs alike, and issued FAQ changes to the rules as required. And they continue to re-issue each wave currently... Don't have enough advanced? Don't worry a new print run will be in your stores as soon as the row boat from china gets here!

I have to say that having rewathced them recently i no longer totally despise the prequels and i think there are some cool ship designs in there.

I think you could put the cooler designs from the ships and the comics that are 'pre rebellion' easily into the game by making them S&V ships.

The z95 is *ancient* in design terms and star wars lore... but we have it in the game.

No reason why some systems wouldnt have old ARC170s or Nimbus fighters still in service.

They would have to be on a par with Z95s or Y wings though as it would be crazy for thm to be better stat wise than new stuf.

or maybe not.... stuff built in times of war is often 'economised' compared to pre war builds as there are more resources and less need to mass produce.

Real world parralell would be WWII. Late war german tanks lacked electric turrer traverse on some that *should* have had it as they had ran out of copper wire, tracks lacked rubber tracks pads (rubber was so scare some boots had wooden soles).

Soviet T34s were often driven out of the factory unpaintd and without full fitting of optics as they were rushed out, its a 'cutting edge' tank design for 1941/42 but totally 'no frills' and spartan inside... put it this way there is no crew station padding.. they pad the driver!

RL-BR

1 point

Action: Execute a free barrel roll action.

Fun for X's AND Y's while being completely useless for E-Wings so no danger there.

@bipolar

again, dude, your argument was that the x-wing was in the bottom 3, I was just trying to point out its not, look at the TIE fighter, the mainstay of the imperial fighter fleet. does it have a droid slot? does it have ordnance? does it have all the pilots the x-wing has?

I would kill for even a crappy droid upgrade to make a TIE better.

and what exactly are the x-wings problems? you are the only person ive heard complain about the x-wing.

its a durable ship, decent damage output, and can be modified by droids, torpedoes, modifications and pilot skills. I see no basis for your argument.

you are the only person ive heard complain about the x-wing.

A lot of people recognize that the generic X-Wing isn't as good as a generic B-Wing for basically the same points. Even FFG says as much. Frank or Alex said as much in one of the interviews during Worlds.

you are the only person ive heard complain about the x-wing.

A lot of people recognize that the generic X-Wing isn't as good as a generic B-Wing for basically the same points. Even FFG says as much. Frank or Alex said as much in one of the interviews during Worlds.

As a Swarmist, I laugh when B-Wings hit the table. Not so much when X-Wings do.

Blue is as strong naked as Rookie against lists concentrating on 3 attack dice or fewer attacks.

Blue is substantially weaker than Rookie against ships with 2 attack dice in large groups.

That being said, Blue's got the Barrel-Roll over the Rookie, and that's the 2nd strongest action in the game (behind Cloak), and has a substantially better upgrade bar.

On the other hand, Keyan Farlander's the only named B pilot who is remotely on-par than the X pilots. (Okay, he's better than par. But the rest of them are terrible, compared to the X wing goodness).

I have to say that having rewathced them recently i no longer totally despise the prequels and i think there are some cool ship designs in there.

I think you could put the cooler designs from the ships and the comics that are 'pre rebellion' easily into the game by making them S&V ships.

The z95 is *ancient* in design terms and star wars lore... but we have it in the game.

No reason why some systems wouldnt have old ARC170s or Nimbus fighters still in service.

They would have to be on a par with Z95s or Y wings though as it would be crazy for thm to be better stat wise than new stuf.

or maybe not.... stuff built in times of war is often 'economised' compared to pre war builds as there are more resources and less need to mass produce.

Real world parralell would be WWII. Late war german tanks lacked electric turrer traverse on some that *should* have had it as they had ran out of copper wire, tracks lacked rubber tracks pads (rubber was so scare some boots had wooden soles).

Soviet T34s were often driven out of the factory unpaintd and without full fitting of optics as they were rushed out, its a 'cutting edge' tank design for 1941/42 but totally 'no frills' and spartan inside... put it this way there is no crew station padding.. they pad the driver!

Except the z-95 isn't really a prequel design it first appeared in EU books and the look we have is from a 90s game tie fighter, same with the firespray.

The older ships all existed before the prequels and featured in various media before anyone even knew Lucas planned those atrocities.

you are the only person ive heard complain about the x-wing.

A lot of people recognize that the generic X-Wing isn't as good as a generic B-Wing for basically the same points. Even FFG says as much. Frank or Alex said as much in one of the interviews during Worlds.

As a Swarmist, I laugh when B-Wings hit the table. Not so much when X-Wings do.

Blue is as strong naked as Rookie against lists concentrating on 3 attack dice or fewer attacks.

Blue is substantially weaker than Rookie against ships with 2 attack dice in large groups.

That being said, Blue's got the Barrel-Roll over the Rookie, and that's the 2nd strongest action in the game (behind Cloak), and has a substantially better upgrade bar.

On the other hand, Keyan Farlander's the only named B pilot who is remotely on-par than the X pilots. (Okay, he's better than par. But the rest of them are terrible, compared to the X wing goodness).

It's a good point that getting extra life out of a B-wing, regardless of PS is very hard, so as the cost of the ship increases it's not necessarily true that its life does, like it can for an X-wing. You can put predator on Wedge and save his token for defense. Wes, stripping tokens, can help himself stay alive longer that way as well. Biggs helps everyone else stay alive longer. You can add regen droids and get reasonable results from them.

So, I do think there is a bit of a sweet spot when paying for the five shield and 3 hull B-wings (in the form of the cheaper dagger or blue) and the pilot ability needs to be well worth it because paying 5-9! points for an upgraded fighter usually means you're just painting a bigger target on them. Look at Keyan, his ability is awesome and on almost any other ship could be game breaking, but he's not really even a top 5 rebel ship right now. That, and of course it's clear that the original two were way over costed while Nera requires the addition of missiles, increasing her cost even if she starts off somewhat reasonable.

I don't think that's as true of X-wings, even though they tend to die sooner. Plus, the three X-wing pilots we're talking about that see the most play (Wedge, Wes, and Biggs) have amazing abilities.

Strawman argument is Strawman. If discussing the effectiveness of a certain fighter chassis it's not remotely accurate to say its terrible because of generic pilot costs. I say this, because you can't divorce the pilots from the ships they fly. To add, it's also a false argument to say that "pilot x would be better on ship y. Therefore ship x is worse than ship y." The statement is based on a premise that doesn't exist in the x wing game environment.

As it stands today, the xwing is still viable. She offers a slew of interesting abilities and in built reliability.

Strawman argument is Strawman.

I think you need to look up the meaning of Strawman...

If discussing the effectiveness of a certain fighter chassis it's not remotely accurate to say its terrible because of generic pilot costs.

Of course it is. It's beyond ridiculous to say otherwise. As long as generic pilots exist, then the value of the generic pilot is something that matters.

The fact that a given pilots ability makes the ship useful doesn't change the problems with the ship itself. Darth Vader is considered one of the best ships in the game, yet even he can't make the Advanced worth flying.

As long as any pilot for a given ship is considered not worth the points, you have an issue that needs to be looked at.

The fact that a given pilots ability makes the ship useful doesn't change the problems with the ship itself. Darth Vader is considered one of the best ships in the game, yet even he can't make the Advanced worth flying.

Couldn't.