they've created a distribution model which will be very hard to move to a 2.0.

Depends on how drastic 2.0 is.

If it's just a new and improved rule set, that doesn't change any of the fundamental stats then it wouldn't be too hard. If it's a complete revamp of the system then it could very well be the death of the game...

Unless they come up with some system that lets you update your cards without having buy new expansions I just can't see how any of us who are currently playing the game could make the change. I'd be willing to pay something for v2.0 cards, but no more then $10-15 per wave or something like that.

So what are they going to do in 3 years time? Keep churning out early wave models? Making your business model based on getting new players usually ends in tears for everyone involved. How many of you are going to buy more of the ships that are already out? How many ships are you going to have to expect a new player to buy to get "fully involved"? There's a limit, and we're going to reach it sooner rather than later.

I know. And I don't know what the answer really is. That's why I said FFG has painted themselves into a corner - they've created a distribution model which will be very hard to move to a 2.0.

It's not impossible, if you move away from the cards themselves, which to be completely honest, are the biggest issue in that regard.

I think the key point here is that X-wing's distribution model, as it currently stands, can't handle a shift to a 2.0. Certainly, there are ways they could change the distribution model that would accommodate a mass update like a 2.0. Will FFG do that? I think they're certainly capable of it at times - the LCG model was a truly radical and impressive shift. I'm not sure if they'll do that with X-wing. I honestly think that it's not going to be worth it for them. If it were just the rules, fine - maybe... But there are very hard limits on how many new ships they can turn out, even drawing from much of the EU and with 3-6 new movies coming.

X-wing, whether we like it or not, has a definite expiration date on it as a game. There just aren't enough ships to keep it going for the next 10 years, even at the slow release rate. Think about it - at 2 waves per year assuming a rotating 2/1/1, you're looking at needing 3 new fighters for each faction every year. Can you come up with 30 new Rebel fighters? Half that? How deep into the EU do you have to go to find them?

I think there's still a fair bit to go, but I expect FFG to look at those numbers and decide the cost and effort of a 2.0 isn't worth it even before it would require a new distribution model.

newer players hopefully don't have to buy 3 Slave-1's so they can get a bunch of stealth devices.

You say this like it's a bug... it's totally a feature. And look at it from FFG's stand point - this has always been designed to make you spend $60 to get those Stealth Devices. Are they really going to change it?

It would have to just be the FAQ put into the game to keep the existing fanbase.

If i had to replace cards/chits because they add one new stat or change fire arcs or whatever i'd be looking at replacing about 50 ship bases and over a hundred cards.

I'd just say, nice knowing you FFG... i'll keep playing v1 as its **** good.

Unless they made V2 so amazing and also different enough that was genuinely worth starting from scratch

I'd hazard a guess a '2nd edition' might be just the inclusion of the web FAQ, possibly some 'advanced' rules that are optional, that sort of thing.

What if they made a Refit Sets for each faction? Price them at say... 20-30 bucks? Includes a bunch of spare tokens and stands, and has 2 of each Generic and 1 Named pilot for each ship with the revised rules. All new print runs of ships get adjusted rules and maybe better balanced upgrade card layouts so you don't have to buy things you don't want for the things you critically need.

Bam.

Older players get their fixes, newer players hopefully don't have to buy 3 Slave-1's so they can get a bunch of stealth devices.

Combine it with a new Core Set 2.0

I'm sorry but i really don't see why people are so dead set against it. Literally every other successful collectible game of ANY kind goes through this process.

Yes i totally agree. I don't see the time has come yet for this step, but in fact if FFG would not do this, the game will just slowly disappear. I think we will get a bunch of new releases from the new Movies (if Disney lets us have them XD), and i believe the right moment would be to start 2.0 just after that. Until then FFG fill the release schedule with EU stuff, or invent some new Raiders or something, and then they will need to reprint cards, rules, bases and dials for the players that own a lot of stuff.

It's a normal process that miniatures games need to go through i think.

This does not change my opinion about the X-Wing though. It needs some love much faster than waiting for 2.0!

they've created a distribution model which will be very hard to move to a 2.0.

Depends on how drastic 2.0 is.

If it's just a new and improved rule set, that doesn't change any of the fundamental stats then it wouldn't be too hard. If it's a complete revamp of the system then it could very well be the death of the game...

Unless they come up with some system that lets you update your cards without having buy new expansions I just can't see how any of us who are currently playing the game could make the change. I'd be willing to pay something for v2.0 cards, but no more then $10-15 per wave or something like that.

I don't see how any 2.0 worth its name won't impact a large number of cards. Even if they didn't change the effect/balance of a single card, new rules would mean those cards would need new text to interact properly with the new rules. It would be very hard, if not impossible, to do an updated rules set which would still work with all the card text as it currently exists.

They could do some sort of swap program (Malifaux did it with 1.1), but I have a hard time seeing FFG doing that.

A lot of people keep saying how great Wedge is and I'm not buying it. Wedge has the same problem as every other X-Wing ship, he doesn't live long enough to make full use of his high offense. If you're opponent did not bother bidding points on PS like you did, then they are likely to have way more ships then you, and because Wedge is forced to just point his ship at the enemy and fly forward, he's not going to be arc-dodging and after he maybe blows up one enemy ship, the rest of the enemy's squad are free to pour dice into him until he pops. Wedge is not using that ability more than twice UNLESS you are using Biggs, and that speaks more to how amazing Biggs is. But then that means you're committing 54 points for a 10 hp Wedge with a pseudo Corran Horn ability assuming Biggs gets off a shot before he dies. At that point you're better off taking a Fat Falcon with a gunner (Chewie + Predator + Gunner + 3PO + MF = 54pts, 13+X HP), so that you can't get arc-dodged.

The only named X-Wing pilots that justify their points cost and the x-wing stats are Biggs and Tarn+R7, and I think the successful competitive lists bear that out. The other named pilots are paying way too much for PS and mediocre abilities.

If they do a reboot, they should make it more like the star trek game, and include ships from multiple eras. I'd say do everything between Episode 1 and Episode 9: movies, tv shows, video games, etc. Would also allow for multiple factions that way: rebels, imperials, separatists, republic, new republic, scum, etc).

Yes it wouldn't be quite as "fluffy" as some ships/factions aren't around at the same time as others, but they've kind of done that already in a way. Biggs never fought against a tie defender, garven never flew side by side with an e-wing, etc.

Wedge does not preform well in a vacuum, for sure, but he's actually pretty simple to keep safe. The trick, if it can be called that, is just a small escort of bandits and to keep Wedge further back. With PS 9, it should not be difficult to deploy him in a manner that makes him harder to get at. With 3 bandits and predator Wedge, you have enough left over for 32 points which is more than enough for another elite pilot.

If Wedge is getting annihilated before shooting, chances are you are using him too aggressively or are positioning him too close to danger. Use ships to block access to him and abuse his PS 9 during deployment. He is a glass cannon (albeit, not on the level of Soontir) that does not mind shooting from long range, and he needs to be treated as such.

Now true, he's not a brainless as a large turreted ship and no where near as durable, but he is almost half the cost and will let you fit another elite pilot alongside him and a sizable number of bandits.

Right now, the competitive X-Wing meta is composed of 3 tiers of strategies that sometimes overlap in the same list: Turret ships that are very hard to kill (Fat Falcons, Decimator & Slippery Dash), High PS Arc Dodgers (Soontir & Phantoms), and Swarms (TIE Fighters & Z-95s).

To be competitive in the current meta, you need to be able to beat at least 2 out of these 3 strategies.

X-Wings, as a ship, get pooped on by all 3 strategies, possibly because FFG was using the X-Wing as their practice dummy ship when they were developing their new ships for competitive play. X-Wings can't field enough ships to block actions and effectively spread their arcs against more maneuverable ships, they are costed in a way that they can't bring enough ships to break through the Fat Turrets defenses before they start losing firepower, and they cannot match the efficiency that TIE Fighters and Z-95s bring to the table when they show up in high numbers and focus their attacks.

Losing an X-Wing is losing a big chunk of your offensive power and points investment, and that's not good when you consider how squishy X-Wings are under attack from multiple ships and how easy it is for a player to focus all their attacks on a single ship with a predictable movement pattern. X-Wings are costed like a B-Wing, but they fly and die like a Z-95. If 3 Bandits at 36 points fought 2 Rookies at 42 points, I'd bet the bandits would win that over half the time, which is sad.

If I could have my way, here's how I would fix the X-Wing. T-65 Refit 0 points Title- non-unique B-Wing only: You may use an X-Wing model instead of a B-Wing model on your ship's base.

Buhalin what do you mean by distribution problem ? I understand that cards are a strong motivator for people to collect the whole ship range, instead of just what they want to play, but once you have so many ships, pilot and upgrade cards, the burden becomes too big of a hassle.

Eventually, they will either need to move from cards and release rules packages (or just card packages), or just let the game die.

Fickle he is still flying an Xwing so nowadays it is pretty easy to get the jump on him, or arc dodge him completely. Wedge is as good as how many times he gets to shoot, and he is pretty darn expensive for what he brings to the table. Compare it to a whisper, who is 3 points more expensive for example and you should already spot how poorly he is costed nowadays or how underpriced the phantom is, nevertheless, any future release will have to deal with the phantom's cost.

Wedge does not preform well in a vacuum, for sure, but he's actually pretty simple to keep safe. The trick, if it can be called that, is just a small escort of bandits and to keep Wedge further back. With PS 9, it should not be difficult to deploy him in a manner that makes him harder to get at. With 3 bandits and predator Wedge, you have enough left over for 32 points which is more than enough for another elite pilot.

If Wedge is getting annihilated before shooting, chances are you are using him too aggressively or are positioning him too close to danger. Use ships to block access to him and abuse his PS 9 during deployment. He is a glass cannon (albeit, not on the level of Soontir) that does not mind shooting from long range, and he needs to be treated as such.

Now true, he's not a brainless as a large turreted ship and no where near as durable, but he is almost half the cost and will let you fit another elite pilot alongside him and a sizable number of bandits.

I'll admit I have not flown Wedge with bandits and not since Wave 3, but I think if that squad is any good it's because the Z-95 is such an efficient ship, not because Wedge is actually a great 8 point upgrade to a Rookie. But even in that scenario, is Wedge actually better than a Blue Squadron Pilot with a Heavy Laser Cannon? At range 3, the Heavy Laser Cannon is denying a green dice just like Wedge, while adding a 4 attack dice, and the B-Wing is way more durable than an X-Wing.

Also, I question how you conclude that Soontir is more of a glass cannon than Wedge? Soontir can dodge arcs and can take 3 defensive actions in the same turn, in my opinion that makes him much more durable than Wedge as long as you fly him correctly so he doesn't get blocked.

Fickle he is still flying an Xwing so nowadays it is pretty easy to get the jump on him, or arc dodge him completely. Wedge is as good as how many times he gets to shoot, and he is pretty darn expensive for what he brings to the table. Compare it to a whisper, who is 3 points more expensive for example and you should already spot how poorly he is costed nowadays or how underpriced the phantom is, nevertheless, any future release will have to deal with the phantom's cost.

Actually, the base cost of whisper is 3 points more expensive. The actual cost difference is 8, at the absolute minimum, and realistically more around 13 once the system and crew slots are filled in. After filling in Wedge with Predator, the difference normalizes to 10 not counting the extra points the phantom player shaved off to secure initiative. That's basically an extra bandit.

Honestly, I've never had any problems with Whisper. Linear de-cloaks are incredibly predictable and cannot reach ships directly behind them, and the phantom does not enjoy taking Wedge's fire.

The problem I believe seems to come from the Phantom/Falcon mind-set of ALL THE THINGS on the same ship. The x-wing is not a ship you lather points onto because it does not have the same performance ceiling that phantoms/falcons have when fully kited out. They preform best when modestly upgraded, so that they're not one giant squishy target begging to get taken out.

The Falcon is the ship you pour points into or, if you want a small ship, the E-wing.

Also, I question how you conclude that Soontir is more of a glass cannon than Wedge? Soontir can dodge arcs and can take 3 defensive actions in the same turn, in my opinion that makes him much more durable than Wedge as long as you fly him correctly so he doesn't get blocked.

In regards to HLC B-wings, it's pilot skill (2 versus 9). You're not getting HLC on a high PS B-wing without paying through the nose for it. True, Blues get more dice, but they're also deploying first, have no option to initiative bid a phantom, and (in the case they don't have initiative) will move before it, making them much easier to dodge.

In regards to Soontir, turrets and green dice dependent (mostly turrets).

Alright, let me try this again.

At some point during a product like Xwing, it doesnt behoove the company to keep producing the older ships. There simply isnt the market for them. You can't keep constant growth of new players. You can't say, oh, we'll get X% or X number of new players every year, and they'll want to buy all the ships. You'll reach market saturation eventually. And with this kind of product, they don't wear out. This isn't a car, or a phone, or any other kind of appliance which decays over time. The only appreciable wear and tear is if you lose bits and pieces or drop a model and step on it.

So what does that mean? Well, they could just keep making new ships, yes, but where does that end? Do they just keep making up brand new ships? How many of you want to see a day where half the lists in your FLGS are composed of ships that are scratch made by FFG and LFL? I don't.

And at what point do you draw the line on how many ships you have? The more ships you have the harder it is to keep everything balanced, or you just end up with a lot **** that plays exactly the same. I don't want that. None of you guys seem to want that.

Or do you want the game to stagnate? They get releases out to Wave 7, 8, even 9 and then just kinda... sit on their hands? Where's their profit there? They have to move product, and again they need older players buying things too.

So eventually they're going to have to do either one of two things. Say screw it, keep making more stuff. OR. Screw it, don't make any new stuff. i don't like either of those options.

I'd much rather they "reinvent the wheel" as it were, and I'll happily buy a 2.0 edition.

Fickle he is still flying an Xwing so nowadays it is pretty easy to get the jump on him, or arc dodge him completely. Wedge is as good as how many times he gets to shoot, and he is pretty darn expensive for what he brings to the table. Compare it to a whisper, who is 3 points more expensive for example and you should already spot how poorly he is costed nowadays or how underpriced the phantom is, nevertheless, any future release will have to deal with the phantom's cost.

Actually, the base cost of whisper is 3 points more expensive. The actual cost difference is 8, at the absolute minimum, and realistically more around 13 once the system and crew slots are filled in. After filling in Wedge with Predator, the difference normalizes to 10 not counting the extra points the phantom player shaved off to secure initiative. That's basically an extra bandit.

Honestly, I've never had any problems with Whisper. Linear de-cloaks are incredibly predictable and cannot reach ships directly behind them, and the phantom does not enjoy taking Wedge's fire.

The problem I believe seems to come from the Phantom/Falcon mind-set of ALL THE THINGS on the same ship. The x-wing is not a ship you lather points onto because it does not have the same performance ceiling that phantoms/falcons have when fully kited out. They preform best when modestly upgraded, so that they're not one giant squishy target begging to get taken out.

The Falcon is the ship you pour points into or, if you want a small ship, the E-wing.

The reason you can pour points into the Falcon/Phantom is because those ships are extremely difficult to kill. Falcons have 13 hit points, can arc-dodge more efficiently than lots of other ships because of their turret (they don't have to be facing you after they reposition to be able to shoot you) and automatically cancel 2 damage every round. Phantoms are similar due to their 4 defense dice and their insane repositioning tricks. These things make your point investments in upgrades much safer. Yes Whisper's actual cost is 37 to Wedge's 29, but Whisper's 4th attack attack dice is statistically similar to Wedge's ability, and often times it's better, adding a 6/8 chance for an extra damage, vs removing the opponent's 3/8_5/8 chance to cancel one of your hits. Then you add in Whisper's insane maneuverablity, high agility and action economy, and you can see why Whisper is a much better deal than Wedge in ANY list.

Also, you should probably be specific when mentioning the E-Wing that you are only talking about Corran Horn. Pouring upgrade points into a generic or Etahn is not a great idea.

Wedge needs dice modification, that comes at 3 points atleast fickle, that's 32 against 37 (ADC + VI). You can talk all you can about predictable movements from the phantom, but it is still tougher to kill, much more maneuverable, and get one attack dice which is better than one less agility dice, paired with a focus token if it hits. It's just a no brainer how much more effective it is costwise. The reason why it can get much better with upgrades like FCS and gunner is because of how durable it can be, making the upgrades worth much more than into any other ship. Same with large ships, Corran, etc. It is directly related to their cost efficiency.

And yes, i am comparing both, because whisper outperforms wedge even jousting.

And to be honest, if you don't have troubles with whisper, what lists do you play ? Because i can solo pretty much 2-3 X/Bwings with it no problem, in my own terms. It is so easy to disengage and re-engage at your terms, that if you are not having problems with it while playing Xwings, is mostly due to your opponents inability to fly it well, than yours to fly well an Xwing since it has a way more limited toolset.

Alright, let me try this again.

At some point during a product like Xwing, it doesnt behoove the company to keep producing the older ships. There simply isnt the market for them. You can't keep constant growth of new players. You can't say, oh, we'll get X% or X number of new players every year, and they'll want to buy all the ships. You'll reach market saturation eventually. And with this kind of product, they don't wear out. This isn't a car, or a phone, or any other kind of appliance which decays over time. The only appreciable wear and tear is if you lose bits and pieces or drop a model and step on it.

So what does that mean? Well, they could just keep making new ships, yes, but where does that end? Do they just keep making up brand new ships? How many of you want to see a day where half the lists in your FLGS are composed of ships that are scratch made by FFG and LFL? I don't.

And at what point do you draw the line on how many ships you have? The more ships you have the harder it is to keep everything balanced, or you just end up with a lot **** that plays exactly the same. I don't want that. None of you guys seem to want that.

Or do you want the game to stagnate? They get releases out to Wave 7, 8, even 9 and then just kinda... sit on their hands? Where's their profit there? They have to move product, and again they need older players buying things too.

So eventually they're going to have to do either one of two things. Say screw it, keep making more stuff. OR. Screw it, don't make any new stuff. i don't like either of those options.

I'd much rather they "reinvent the wheel" as it were, and I'll happily buy a 2.0 edition.

You may, but I expect that a whole lot more wouldn't. Without a conversion kit, you would lose a lot of players. And with a conversion kit, you are essentially right where you started. Especially at this stage of the game. And evidence points to there still being a rather large market for older ships. The movie ships will always be in demand. How many a person wants is up to the person, but new update packs will still entice buyers. FFG has proven to be masters of enticing more buys. We are not anywhere close to where the game needs a new edition. We still have plenty of years left in this game.

Buhalin what do you mean by distribution problem ? I understand that cards are a strong motivator for people to collect the whole ship range, instead of just what they want to play, but once you have so many ships, pilot and upgrade cards, the burden becomes too big of a hassle.

Eventually, they will either need to move from cards and release rules packages (or just card packages), or just let the game die.

I think we're on the same page here.

The question is whether FFG will continue X-wing with a different distribution model. This comes down to a whole lot of unknowns for us, mainly around the actual production costs. I see a few different elements to it: game design costs, model design costs, model production costs, card/cardboard production costs, packing and shipping...

The problem with the card-pack-only concept is that a lot of those costs remain constant. Game design costs, for example, don't go down if they just pack the cards. Neither do model design costs. So the question is what happens when you move to a card-only model? Most of those other costs are unchanged (you can't skip designing the ships even if you package the cards separately), but your profit margin drops dramatically. Same thing applies if you stop producing new ships, and just make new pilots/upgrades for them. Design costs are the bulk of it.

My honest guess is that without upgrade cards driving expensive model purchases is a very large portion of X-wing's sales. I can't speak for everyone, but I have a lot of ships which were purchased for the upgrades alone. I've never put more than a single A-wing on the table at a time, but I own 5 of them. Second Falcon in exactly 3 games, bought mainly for Engine Upgrades, second Lambda for Advanced Sensors, etc. etc. Probably half my collection has been driven by the upgrade distribution model.

Can X-wing survive a shift to a model that removes the vast bulk of profit from half my purchases? I have no idea.

So again, I think we're saying the same thing - the current model is, in the long run, both unsustainable and very much a problem for a potential 2.0. What do they do to fix it? I have no idea.

Wedge needs dice modification, that comes at 3 points atleast fickle, that's 32 against 37 (ADC + VI). You can talk all you can about predictable movements from the phantom, but it is still tougher to kill, much more maneuverable, and get one attack dice which is better than one less agility dice, paired with a focus token if it hits. It's just a no brainer how much more effective it is costwise. The reason why it can get much better with upgrades like FCS and gunner is because of how durable it can be, making the upgrades worth much more than into any other ship. Same with large ships, Corran, etc. It is directly related to their cost efficiency.

And yes, i am comparing both, because whisper outperforms wedge even jousting.

And to be honest, if you don't have troubles with whisper, what lists do you play ? Because i can solo pretty much 2-3 X/Bwings with it no problem, in my own terms. It is so easy to disengage and re-engage at your terms, that if you are not having problems with it while playing Xwings, is mostly due to your opponents inability to fly it well, than yours to fly well an Xwing since it has a way more limited toolset.

a.) factored predator into cost already

b.) I'm aware of the cost efficiency, but not exactly how that's relevant when rebels don't have the option of flying him/her

c.) Wedge is the only X. The rest of the list is 3 Bandits and a 32 pointer, usually Keyan with Sensors.

It's a simple little trick: you ring the middle of the table with obstacles and plug them with bandits. Keyan goes to the center and starts dancing. With little room to manuever in the ring, his pre-manuever barrel rolls and short range red maneuvers (hard 1s and 2 k) make him a real problem and also a pretty big target. Wedge flanks from the side and covers keyan.

Phantoms really don't like obstructions (or Zs) blocking their de-cloaks or obstructing shots, nor do they like the accuracy of a tl & "red focus" Keyan or predator Wedge.

d.) As long as we're making baseless assertions on the skill of our opponents, I'd venture that if your opponents are letting you solo 2/3 xs or bs, then it's probably due to your opponent's inability to fly them well.

I'd much rather they "reinvent the wheel" as it were, and I'll happily buy a 2.0 edition.

My collection includes almost 70 ships (counting large ships as double), not counting huge ships. I, for one, will not buy a 2.0 that requires me to re-buy those ships.

I've never advocated reissuing ships in any of my posts, i'm not sure where you guys keep getting that.

I've never advocated reissuing ships in any of my posts, i'm not sure where you guys keep getting that.

But then, what problem does your 2.0 solve if there is a conversion kit? And the old players don't have to buy anything new.

It is my hope that FFG will obtain licensing rights to the prequels within the next couple of years so that we can have Republic and Seperatist factions. I know a lot of people hate the prequels, myself included, but the starfighters in those movies were actually pretty cool, and they would bring a lot of potential to the table with generic Clone/Jedi/Droid pilots.

If FFG can't get licensing to the newer movies, in a few years they will be stuck either rereleasing old ships with new upgrades, or making up their own ships.

But what does any of this have to do with the X-Wing being a viable ship?

@Buhallin yep, i don't say i disagree with you, i was just interested into the distribution issues you mentioned, i wasn't challenging your argument, just genuinely intrigued.

@ Fickle You can just move once with your Xwing. A phantom can move 3 times in the maneuvering phase. It is easier to fly an Xwing, i am just stating a fact, and since it is easier i assuming it's your opponents inability to predict your flying with Xwings, which are far easier to predict, than yours to predict the phantom flying, which when played well are way harder to predict or even stop from slipping away.

And yes, you talked on a previous thread about "Just fly directly toward the phantom", and it certainly RINGS bells about your experience against phantoms. You need to fly very, very far behind it, for that to be even possible. And that just means that your opponent could do the same with the phantom and run away to reset.

http://i.imgur.com/5Q7gO9a.jpg

Yeah i suck at paint, and i didn't put much effort into it, but i hope you get the movements. Blue phantom, red enemy ship. Remember that the phantom has a lot more control on the vector, it's actually hard to be able to come on a straight line towards it if your opponent doesn't want you, but whatever, i put it that way so you can see how to handle worse case scenarios, even if lineal 2 barrerl roll, the maneuver doesn't need to, and you can do a lot of funky stuff with it plus the regular barrel roll. So yeah, i can say it perfectly, my opponents doesn't need to be bad for me to kill their X or B's, because it is completely biased on my control of the phantom, not their ability to pull maneuvers with those ships, because the ships themselves CAN'T chase a phantom if you just engage and re-engage at your terms, those ships must always move forward, it's just easy to skirt around them, but patience is always required. I am talking about perfectly 20 minutes just maneuvering around taking potshots when you can. Once you will get shot by one of them when he tries to spread arcs, but you just have focus + evade + 4/5 dice and laugh.

Get your ships out the shelf and try it out.

I had actually played against some variants of 3Z + X/B's. They are crap lists. Z's lack to finish the game once Wedge and Keyan are dead, and they will be dead, because that's all it takes for the list to fall apart, they are not Fat Hans to be effective while flying on their own, they truly require dedicated escorts.

But of course, i also think Keyan sucks.

Yes, i truly wonder if you just play jousting numbers to be honest, because you are talking about wedge on a vacuum, but then you say that dealing with whisper is easy. If dealing with whisper for you is easy, dealing with wedge should be like a piece of cake x4.

well a Rookie pilot is still better than an Alpha Squadron pilot for 18 points.