Yep, it will be interesting to see if one can utilise any historic ship of the line strategies using the gladiators and assault frigates. Somehow with the factoring of fighters, other styles of ship and the lack of "wind" constraints, I doubt it though.

Well, not super historic, but this is star wars we're talking about so WW2 naval engagements should not be too difficult to reproduce in space

So broadside tactics with the assault frigate might be pretty popular

The assault frigate MK 2 is going to be a fun ship to try out, since it's the ship that most reminds me of ye old battleships bristling with cannons along the side and unleashing hell with devastating broadsides...

But the Empire has the Gladiator too, which is like ye old battleships bristling with cannons along the side and unleashing hell with devastating broadsides...on speed

I think hte Gladiators are more like Pocket Battleships, big on guns and speed weak on armor and shields

So broadside tactics with the assault frigate might be pretty popular

Perhaps. I would think though you will have a few weaknesses you will need to address.

1. your ship formation will have a dominant level of firepower but it will also be moving away from the target unless you turn in. A smart opponent will place their line in such a fashion that turning in to keep firing on the first target will lead your line into another ship.

2. If you instead opt to just keep moving down the line your opponent's lead ship turns in and fires upon your rear arc.

3. If you simply move in such a way as to keep the enemy at range 4-5 (red die only) you will likely do some good dmg but it will also be reasonable easy for the other guy to disengage by turning away from the direction you are traveling.

4. Your strategy will have to take into account objectives where you need to move into the center region of the board. So people need to not thing of these ships as long range keep your distance type ships.

A better approach might be to treat assault frigates as true assault ships designed to close with the enemy. One idea I thought of today would be to run a 2 nebs and an AFII with fighter screen. The AFII and fighter screen are the point of a wedge formation with the nebs bringing up the flanks. The other guy has to decide to either shoot the fighter screen or shoot the afII during the approach. Anyone who engages the AFII is practically committed to having the AFII and at least one of the nebs pummel it. Basically on approach the AFII turns slightly to use 2 arcs of shields and to line up for broadside shots. The nebs will of course still be closing and will be able to use their front arc firepower to support the afii. The fighter screen just does what fighter screens do and with a little luck you will be able to use them to put additional firepower on your primary target. Oh and did I mention 2 nebs, an AFII and commander (200-230ish points with upgrades) will leave you a ton of room for fighters or maybe a corvette and fighters? Practically begs for you to bring those bwing squadrons and some xwings.

The assault frigate MK 2 is going to be a fun ship to try out, since it's the ship that most reminds me of ye old battleships bristling with cannons along the side and unleashing hell with devastating broadsides...

But the Empire has the Gladiator too, which is like ye old battleships bristling with cannons along the side and unleashing hell with devastating broadsides...on speed

I think hte Gladiators are more like Pocket Battleships, big on guns and speed weak on armor and shields

Sure beats the Corvette, though

Seems similar nebulon in base stats with slightly stronger side shields (alliteration!), less so in token-based defenses (since the dodge only works well at a range the Gladiator does not enjoy being at, but I guess it can keep the gladiator safe-ish from rebel ships supporting his latest victim)

It has the same token defense as the Assault Frigate Mk 2, but 1 less shield all around and 1 less hull.

The assault frigate MK 2 is going to be a fun ship to try out, since it's the ship that most reminds me of ye old battleships bristling with cannons along the side and unleashing hell with devastating broadsides...

But the Empire has the Gladiator too, which is like ye old battleships bristling with cannons along the side and unleashing hell with devastating broadsides...on speed

I think hte Gladiators are more like Pocket Battleships, big on guns and speed weak on armor and shields

Sure beats the Corvette, though

Seems similar nebulon in base stats with slightly stronger side shields (alliteration!), less so in token-based defenses (since the dodge only works well at a range the Gladiator does not enjoy being at, but I guess it can keep the gladiator safe-ish from rebel ships supporting his latest victim)

It has the same token defense as the Assault Frigate Mk 2, but 1 less shield all around and 1 less hull.

I'm not complaining, in fact I feel once we get the game and settle into our various battle plans and strategies your gonna see a lot of Gladiators floating around. Their the perfect ship for doing all the chase work and just seem to be good all around ships that can help cover the weakness in the Victories and Tie squadrons. Heck if the Victory turns out to be a dud I might just go 3 Gladiators then I will have the initiative when it comes to moving and shooting instead of those evil Rebel corvettes.

With either Victories (absurd front-arc dice with decent range if II, turns like it was marinated in tar) or Gladiators (super fast with super-stubby guns), I think Wave 1 empire is going to dig the hell out of navigation objectives.

Because they're so reliant on the enemy being in a good position for them, you're probably going to want to facilitate said positioning with table-space based victory (heh) conditions.

Basically, it gives the Victory a stick with which to prop up a card-board box and a little carrot on a plate to put beneath it. He'll be like the world's least subtle hunter.

"Shh!

Be vewy vewy quiet...we're hunting webels... ehehehehehehe"

I'm not complaining, in fact I feel once we get the game and settle into our various battle plans and strategies your gonna see a lot of Gladiators floating around. Their the perfect ship for doing all the chase work and just seem to be good all around ships that can help cover the weakness in the Victories and Tie squadrons. Heck if the Victory turns out to be a dud I might just go 3 Gladiators then I will have the initiative when it comes to moving and shooting instead of those evil Rebel corvettes.

I doubt the Victory will be a dud. In fact I think it will be a great ship with the single weakness of speed. Its got good firepower, shields, hull, lots of engineering, and while its command stack is a bit limiting it also will have the ability to hold a lot of tokens.

My money is on the most common imperial fleet comp being Tarkin, 2 VSDs, 1 GSD, and then filler squadrons along with upgrades. You basically go core set, 1 VSD, and 1 GSD to get there so its also the cheapest way to get to a tournament fleet with imperials while buying core set.

I actually think 3 Cap Imp lists will end up fairly rare. Our ships are just so expensive that unless we are running 3 GSDs we don't have enough points left over to ensure we have adequate Fighter Screens. Even running 2 Vic 1s and a GSD 2 that gives you room for 7 TIEs (or 5 + 1 Howlrunner), which doesn't seem like a reliable enough fighter screen to me. It might be just enough to ensure that if you are aggressive enough, and your opponent is not skittish enough, you can hold the enemy squadrons at bay for just as long as it takes to destroy them enemy caps. But more likely I think the rebels will hold outside of Close range (black dice are very scary after all) while their fighters clear out your fighters. Then they'll send in the bombers which will wreak havoc with the SDs.

It will probably be the most common list for a few weeks anyway since that is a complete set of Wave 1 Imp Ships, but I suspect more competitive lists will be 2 Caps (2 x VSD or 1x vSD + 1x GSD) with lots of fighters. Alternately a 3 GSD build (with some fighter protection) will probably work out pretty well since they are durable and fast enough to ensure they can get into close range, at which point their oodles of Black Dice will just rip things to shreds.

I'm not complaining, in fact I feel once we get the game and settle into our various battle plans and strategies your gonna see a lot of Gladiators floating around. Their the perfect ship for doing all the chase work and just seem to be good all around ships that can help cover the weakness in the Victories and Tie squadrons. Heck if the Victory turns out to be a dud I might just go 3 Gladiators then I will have the initiative when it comes to moving and shooting instead of those evil Rebel corvettes.

I doubt the Victory will be a dud. In fact I think it will be a great ship with the single weakness of speed. Its got good firepower, shields, hull, lots of engineering, and while its command stack is a bit limiting it also will have the ability to hold a lot of tokens.

My money is on the most common imperial fleet comp being Tarkin, 2 VSDs, 1 GSD, and then filler squadrons along with upgrades. You basically go core set, 1 VSD, and 1 GSD to get there so its also the cheapest way to get to a tournament fleet with imperials while buying core set.

I doubt it will be a dud either but until we can get playing the game we won't know for sure. As for Fleet comp I hope a lot of people can make the 2 VSD,1 GSD work. I just know I'm gonna go with the 1 VSD & 2 GSD my self I feel it will give me the firepower and flexibility I want.

I actually think 3 Cap Imp lists will end up fairly rare. Our ships are just so expensive that unless we are running 3 GSDs we don't have enough points left over to ensure we have adequate Fighter Screens. Even running 2 Vic 1s and a GSD 2 that gives you room for 7 TIEs (or 5 + 1 Howlrunner), which doesn't seem like a reliable enough fighter screen to me. It might be just enough to ensure that if you are aggressive enough, and your opponent is not skittish enough, you can hold the enemy squadrons at bay for just as long as it takes to destroy them enemy caps. But more likely I think the rebels will hold outside of Close range (black dice are very scary after all) while their fighters clear out your fighters. Then they'll send in the bombers which will wreak havoc with the SDs.

It will probably be the most common list for a few weeks anyway since that is a complete set of Wave 1 Imp Ships, but I suspect more competitive lists will be 2 Caps (2 x VSD or 1x vSD + 1x GSD) with lots of fighters. Alternately a 3 GSD build (with some fighter protection) will probably work out pretty well since they are durable and fast enough to ensure they can get into close range, at which point their oodles of Black Dice will just rip things to shreds.

2 VSD, 1 GSD, motti, howlrunner and 6 tie fighters. 10 points left over so tiny amount of wiggle room. Not saying its a great list, just a reasonable one for starting out. In fact I'd go so far as to say if you keep them in close formation you can probably get by just fine with that fighter screen since your anti fighter shots from the cap ships will help a lot.

personally, I think that 5-7 tie squads will be plenty to screen the caps, mostly because their job is not to defeat threbel fighters but to delay them, and the cap ships anti fighter weapons are being underrated I think because

1) there is little to none defence for most squads

2)they can shoot at all squads in range

On another note, I want to point out a flaw with the assault frigate broadside strategy, since vic are obviously forward heavy they will be pointed at the frigate if at all possible and if the frigate presents a broadside and moves "across" the vic path, it will become insanyly easy for the Vic to close the gap and point blank the frigate with about as many dice as one can pick up at once!

Just a thought

On the flip side, if that happens and the Vic does not have adacute support from other ships/squads it will likely become very easy for the frigate to get behind the Vic and pommel its weak spot

And the AFII can probably go speed three, and therefore effectivally fishtail itself just out of range after each shot.

I can see a good stratagy where you allow the IMP player, just out of long range or able to fire at long range, then it will attempt to close.

The AFII will, as it should be showing its beam or quarter, fire at long or medium range then use its superior speed to break off from the VIC, whilst still presenting a side arc and increasing to long range or just out.

Meanwhile corvettes are being trailer park girls and coming around from the outside

I can envision a set up where the Frigates line up side by side approaching the Imperial Formation and then splitting just at long range unleashing a double dose of long range broadsides at the leading Imperial ships. Hopefully forcing the Imperials to either expose a weak arc as they turn to chase one of the frigates or just continue to face dual broadsides

Well now we have more info on the rebel ships, anyone's strategy plans change?

Well now we have more info on the rebel ships, anyone's strategy plans change?

Maybe run a little tighter on the formation with my Imperials so the flying corvette wedge of doom can be taken care of but otherwise. Only plan change I have is I might want to play the Rebels now lol

Well now we have more info on the rebel ships, anyone's strategy plans change?

I'm actually starting to be swayed from my loyalty to the empire.... CR90 swarms and AF2s keep tempting me.

The AF2 looks powerful, but it's a lot of points. it's very comparable to the Vic-II, but there's some subtle bits to it.

a) it can actually throw more dice at a single target than a Vic. However, it cannot match the Victorys single arc frontal guns, so you have to move obliquely at all times.

b) it's faster than a Vic

c) it IN THEORY has more shields, but it's not that simple. To get the most from it, you need to expose your side to your target, which means that target will just ignore your frontal shields. Other than for redirect use, that Forward 4 shield isnt going to be as useful as it looks.

d) Same upgrade slots as a Vic (the Vic-1 has missiles instead of Ions though)

e) it can either have the better Anti-fighter and worse squadron, or same squadron and same Anti-fighter. it cant have both.

f) It has 25% less hull than the Vic

g) it has an evade instead of one of the Vics redirects. This has 2 effects. First, that 4 shield becomes a little less useful still. Second, evades dont work at short range. This cements it as a ship that does NOT want to be in black-dice range.

It's going to be an interesting ship to use. You'll want to try to bring your combined front and side guns to bear on one target, but you want to keep that exposed side away from the targets friends and try to get them onto you forward shields.

It's most effective relative to other ships at Long range. it's solid at medium range, but Vic-I's and Gladiators are going to hurt it horribly at close range. You'll want to keep your speed up and circle the main fight....direct approaches will result in extreme death.

It's quite a lot of points (roughly equivalent between the two models to the 2 Victory-class ships), so it will heavily restrict your list, similar to a Star Destroyer or two. it will also mean you'll gravitate away from Objectives that involve you having to get close, brawl or otherwise end up in the middle of the board.

It has the worst command stack of the Rebel fleet, so will require a lot more forward planning (again like the Victory).

Overall i think it's a nicely balanced opposite for the Victory. it has relative strengths and weaknesses. The Victory is much better at driving directly into a fight head on, and hammering away. The AF does not under any circumstances want to do this....it's greatest edge is medium-long range, and it lacks the Victorys extra strong hull. The one extra front shield, as mentioned, is something of a trap making it look a bit tougher than it actually is.

I look forward to seeing the various tactics and counter-tactics between admirals fielding these two bruisers

Throw on some enhanced armament, paragon and captain Antilles and, if you concentrate fire and get both attacks on a single target, your looking at a frontal 2red/1blue attack with a follow up 5red/1blue/1black from the broadside with a single dice re-roll. Now that is deadly

It is. But at 103 points with just those upgrades, it really needs to carry it's weight!

And the scary thing is that at short range it STILL only equals the front+side fire-power of a non-upgraded Victory-1 class (7,75 average hits each) weighing in at 71 points. (not counting the single re-roll, so admittedly the AF does have a small edge, but very small).

This really shows that you absolutely must stay at blue or longer to make this ship earn it's points.

Don't forget that VSD can take the "Dominator" title, which is not restricted to the number of times you can use it per turn.

VSD-2+Dom+Enhanced+CF is 9 dice coming out of the front arc at range 2, 7 dice off the side arc, or a ludicrous 15 dice at one ship if you catch it at an angle with all of the above.

You would want to umm... have a repair command dialed up for the next turn if you did it though.

Don't forget that VSD can take the "Dominator" title, which is not restricted to the number of times you can use it per turn.

VSD-2+Dom+Enhanced+CF is 9 dice coming out of the front arc at range 2, 7 dice off the side arc, or a ludicrous 15 dice at one ship if you catch it at an angle with all of the above.

You would want to umm... have a repair command dialed up for the next turn if you did it though.

yea, but you need them for the 7th shot from the side arc, or to get to 15 from the both front and side. It would be 6 and 14 otherwise.

Front:

3 Red

3 Blue

2 Dom

1 CF

Total: 9

Side:

2 Red

1 Blue

2 Dom

1 EA

1 CF

Total: 7

CF only works on one shot(?) so the total is 15 from both combined.

Edit: On a different note, does anyone else think "Leading Shots" for just 4 points is great for a VSD-2? It's one of the only upgrades that scales with more dice being rolled, and it's cheap too.