Which is the best and why? Assume a 2 ship build, e.g. Corran Dash or Chewie Dash or Two Falcons or Decimator + Bounty Hunter, etc. The Predator/Lone Wolf/Gunner would go on one of the two ships.

In this case I'd say Lone Wolf is strictly better than Predator, simply because it will keep you in the air longer, especially if you play defensively with your actions.

depends on how you like to fly them, on dash id say Lonewolf.

If you're confident you can keep clear of your 'wingman' - and with a two ship build that should be doable - then lone wolf is the best by some margin.

Gunner is the best offensively - but it's the most expensive and not available to everyone because it's a crew slot, not a talent.

Predator is not as good as lone wolf becuase it lacks the defensive bonus, but at least you know you're always going to get it.

With big ships Lone wolf is the better one because unless you mini swarm with 4 Ties or Headhunters you can count on being beyond range 2 of other ships. That is also why it is a unique EPT so you don't have more than one of those upgrades.

Predator would probably be better on Han than Dash because Dash already handles swarms well.

Gunner is always a good crew upgrade unless you are running outrider title. The it becomes nothing more than a passenger.

you can count on being beyond range 2 of other ships.

Actually I disagree with that. Everytime I use lone wolf im surprised how often i cannot use it. Especially if your opponents stays in close formation (which is a very good counter tactic, and easy to pull of in the current 2 build meta) because i end up having to attack the target from 2 sides but still within range 2. And as soon as you make decissions like making crazy moves just to get the lone wolf advantage, its really not an advantage at all anymore.

Lone Wolf > Predator > Gunner for Dash imo.

With big ships Lone wolf is the better one because unless you mini swarm with 4 Ties or Headhunters you can count on being beyond range 2 of other ships. That is also why it is a unique EPT so you don't have more than one of those upgrades.

Predator would probably be better on Han than Dash because Dash already handles swarms well.

Gunner is always a good crew upgrade unless you are running outrider title. The it becomes nothing more than a passenger.

May be a daft question, I've not flown Dash yet, but why is Gunner wasted on Dash?

You lose your primary attack, and gunner requires a primary attack.

I will plug this thread from reddit where we discuss Lone Wolf/Predator/Outmaneuver. I have not made any script for Gunner though.

I will plug this thread from reddit where we discuss Lone Wolf/Predator/Outmaneuver. I have not made any script for Gunner though.

That script is pure mathematical though. It doesnt (and can't) factor in the amount of times you could use it. In the games I played predator would definitely have been better, even if on paper lonewolf is 10 times as good when you can use it

One thing to keep in mind (that I find is often forgotten) is that Predator is a straight re-roll, Lone Wolf is re-roll a blank. If you think there's a good chance of losing actions, Predator is the way to go. Lone Wolf is more reliant on Focus.

Throw an HLC and the Outrider title on Dash with Lone Wolf and you've got plenty of incentive to stay clear of any scrums that might put you close to your other ship.

One thing to keep in mind (that I find is often forgotten) is that Predator is a straight re-roll, Lone Wolf is re-roll a blank. If you think there's a good chance of losing actions, Predator is the way to go. Lone Wolf is more reliant on Focus.

Check the reddit thread. The math for focus/no focus is there.

I will plug this thread from reddit where we discuss Lone Wolf/Predator/Outmaneuver. I have not made any script for Gunner though.

That script is pure mathematical though. It doesnt (and can't) factor in the amount of times you could use it. In the games I played predator would definitely have been better, even if on paper lonewolf is 10 times as good when you can use it

This is a caveat of any analysis that includes Outmaneuver and Lone Wolf, and I state it as such.

I played a 2-ship with Falcon and Outrider. I can just tell you that on Chewie with C3PO, Lone Wolf won me a critical game by enabling C3PO evade and then evading again with the Lone Wolf reroll.

Lone wolf is certainly the better of the two as long as you actually keep your ships separated or have it on the last survivor!

One thing to keep in mind (that I find is often forgotten) is that Predator is a straight re-roll, Lone Wolf is re-roll a blank. If you think there's a good chance of losing actions, Predator is the way to go. Lone Wolf is more reliant on Focus.

Check the reddit thread. The math for focus/no focus is there.

I wasn't challenging the math in that thread, or anything you'd said, in fact. I'm sorry if it came across like I was. I just wanted to remind people that the two cards are different in more ways than price and triggering requirement. Very often I see and hear people talk about Lone Wolf = Predator for cheaper (plus distance requirements).

One thing to keep in mind (that I find is often forgotten) is that Predator is a straight re-roll, Lone Wolf is re-roll a blank. If you think there's a good chance of losing actions, Predator is the way to go. Lone Wolf is more reliant on Focus.

Check the reddit thread. The math for focus/no focus is there.

I wasn't challenging the math in that thread, or anything you'd said, in fact. I'm sorry if it came across like I was. I just wanted to remind people that the two cards are different in more ways than price and triggering requirement. Very often I see and hear people talk about Lone Wolf = Predator for cheaper (plus distance requirements).

I'm sorry, I think I didn't come across well. I wasn't thinking you were challenging the math, I was just pointing out that I'm basically agreeing with you, and that I have covered the existence or lack of focus.

As far as I'm concerned, Lone Wolf is an incredible card. Provided you get to trigger it often, it can be as good as Predator against high-PS targets and it helps your defense too.

One thing to keep in mind (that I find is often forgotten) is that Predator is a straight re-roll, Lone Wolf is re-roll a blank. If you think there's a good chance of losing actions, Predator is the way to go. Lone Wolf is more reliant on Focus.

Check the reddit thread. The math for focus/no focus is there.

I wasn't challenging the math in that thread, or anything you'd said, in fact. I'm sorry if it came across like I was. I just wanted to remind people that the two cards are different in more ways than price and triggering requirement. Very often I see and hear people talk about Lone Wolf = Predator for cheaper (plus distance requirements).

I'm sorry, I think I didn't come across well. I wasn't thinking you were challenging the math, I was just pointing out that I'm basically agreeing with you, and that I have covered the existence or lack of focus.

As far as I'm concerned, Lone Wolf is an incredible card. Provided you get to trigger it often, it can be as good as Predator against high-PS targets and it helps your defense too.

All is good. It seems we're of pretty exactly the same mind. It's so good that I want to buy a YT-2400, even though I have zero desire to play Dash.

Both wave 5 expansions have incredible cards, I would have bought one of each even if I never wanted to play the actual ships. Ruthlessness, Mara Jade, Experimental Interface, etc.

Better Shmetter!

They are different. The question when should you take each.

Lone Wolf and Predator do similar thing, they both give you re-rolls, so they are pretty easy to compare.

We can over simplify and just say that a re-roll is worth a re-roll. This isn't true, a agility re-roll is not as valuable attack re-roll. This is true because there simply aren't as many successes on green dice AND because you can get too many evades and end up wasting some. You almost never have too many hits (Though it is possible, just much less likely than for evades)

So how many re-roll opportunities does each upgrade give.

Predator gives you roughly one re-roll EVERY combat round.

However you will get two re-rolls if you shoot at a PS 1 or 2 ship.

That is a lot of Re-rolls!

Lone Wolf give you roughly two re-rolls every round that you are not w/in range 3 of an ally.

Basically if you get to use Lone Wolf it is TWICE as good as Predator, but only if it triggers. If you are w/in range 3 of any ally then Lone Wolf does nothing.

My estimations have been super rough (even crude) but basically if you can use Lone Wolf half the time it should be just as good as Predator as long as you aren't fighting low PS ships.

This is information you can use to make a decision. One good thing about Lone Wolf is you actually control if you are in range 3 of your allies. The down side is being in good position for Lone Wolf is often bad position for other things. And that is the real cost IMO for Lone Wolf.

If I get time I will give my analysis of Gunner.

Yt-2400 with Flight Instructor+lone wolf vs Tie Swarm = OP please nerf

May be a daft question, I've not flown Dash yet, but why is Gunner wasted on Dash?

The more accurate things is to say that Gunner is wasted on when you use the Outrider title as that shuts down your primary attack. Without the title Dash could use the Gunner to turn a miss into a primary weapon attack but Outrider shuts down the primary weapon.

Some follow-up questions;

1. If I put Lone Wolf and no other upgrades (i.e. no C-3PO) on Han Solo, and I roll only 1 evade dice, what's the probability that I would get an evade on either my first or second roll? (Assume focus results are functionally the same as blanks)

2. Any tips on how to keep two ships far enough apart so that Lone Wolf would trigger?

1. If you don't have focus and only have 1 green dice, it's almost equivalent to a focus. The probability is 3/8 + 3/8 * 3/8 or 1 - 2/8 - 3/8*5/8. The result is 33/64, while focus would give you 40/64. Worth mentioning that this would work on *every* roll, so it's actually pretty good.

2. I've used builds with two ships, and I found that sometimes, a better position is better than triggering Lone Wolf, just as sometimes the best position is one which takes you through an asteroid. So don't get in the mindset of triggering Lone Wolf at all costs. Otherwise it's pretty easy, as long as you have one turreted ship and a small non-turreted ship, which I'm assuming is the case with two ship builds. I played Decimator + Defender, it was super fun and powerful. Go for a pincer, make the opponent choose a ship to follow, profit!