Thanks for answering my plea; I am humbly seeking advice on strategies to taking down a fat 1300/2400 and other turret builds. I am not trying to rant or piss on FFGs implementation of turrets, I am consistently having a difficult time overcoming opponents who fly turret heavy builds.

A little background. My squad of choice against turret builds has been:

• Soontir+PTL
• Howlrunner
• Dark Curse
• Academy x3

This puts me at 100 points.

As for asteroid placement, I try and keep strong vertical/horizontal lanes that allow greater maneuverability for a mini swarm. This means I am placing my asteroids in the furthest four corners, all down the same side (North, South, East or West depending on where my opponent places their asteroids), or diagonally through the center of the play area.

My main placement strategy is to keep a mini swarm with Howl and 3 APs on either the far left or far right side of the board (depending on asteroid placement). Then I place Dark Curse and Fel on the opposite side.

As far as general game play strategy goes, I will try to use a pincer method with the two forces focusing on the most vulnerable 1300/2400/turret ship (i.e. if an opponent is flying fat lando + fat chewie and 3P0 I will try and target lando first). Or, I will use my mini swarm (Howl + 3 APs) and do a full on frontal assault with my mini swarm while trying to flank with my two chasers (Curse + Fel). I have spoken with a few veteran players about what I can do and suggestions have included:

• Swapping out Fel for another elite interceptor
• Increasing volume of ships
• staying at range 3
• "Use asteroids to my advantage"

I will admit I have tried everything except for increasing the overall volume of ships I am fielding (i.e. 7 or 8 ship TIE swarm). Truth is, if I am too aggressive with an interceptor they don't last very long. I have played enough that I am more than comfortable flying and staying in the asteroids, however, I have not found a good method to utilizing asteroids against turrets. As far as staying at range three, most my opponents have seen through that strategy and utilize the 1300s speed to close distance within one or two turns.

I would most appreciate anyone else's thoughts on how to take on the fat turret builds. Thanks!

Soontir as a flanker is an excellent choice and having Howlrunner with 3 Academy TIEs is good too. I am not too sure about "Dark Curse". His ability of opponents not being able to spend focus tokens or reroll attack dice on him is awesome. His ability keeps him alive, but it's better to focus on your more important pieces, Soontir and Howl.

One of my recommendations would be to bump 2 of the 3 Academy pilots to Obsidians (2 pts) and one to Black Squadron (2 pts). Low-level fighters are sometimes escorting the big turreted ship. These pilots will usually have PS of 1 or 2, so this will help in shooting first against them. Yes, you can try to gain initiative but there are so many 99 or 98 point builds that you're sacrificing precious points on the chance that your squad will have lower points than your opponent. The Black Squadron Pilot is for the ETP, which would be either Wingman (2 pts) or Draw Their Fire (1 pt), though Wingman could be a better choice of the two.

Also, give Soontir the Targeting Computer Upgrade (2 pts). Usually, TC is a wasted opportunity, but with Soontir, it works because of the combo PTL and his Pilot Ability brings (Ex. Target Lock as his action, then PTL for an evade, boost, or barrel roll, then get the focus as a result of the stress). Next, place a Hull Upgrade (3 pts) on him. This will help him be more survivable. (Use the Royal Guard TIE title for the double Mod Upgrade ability). Finally, another Hull Upgrade on Howlrunner (3 pts), along with Swarm Tactics as her EPT (2 pts).

This should put you back to 100. Your list is good. Having 6 ships on the table can be a big advantage but it is better to have 5 ships that are solid than 6 ships that can do their job but lean too close to being fragile.

As for flying strategy, I like how you fly them and how you've tried to use asteroids. When it comes to big ships or ships with turrets, asteroids are your friends. However, the "staying at range 3" thing is not that helpful after the first two engagements, as you have seen. Range 2 is a better way to go. It gives your opponent no offensive/defensive bonus. True, the same goes for you, but when it comes to raw dice, you'll have a slightly higher advantage. YT-1300s or YT-2400s will usually have 3 attack dice and 1 or 2 defense dice. When you are defending, you will usually roll 3 dice, the same number your opponent rolls for attack. And when it is your turn to shoot, you'll be rolling 2 to 3 against their 1 or 2 defense dice.

Now when it comes to picking a target, it is all based on how your opponent flies what he has. Your current methods are good. Still, here's a suggestion you could add to list:

-Engage the big ship with your swarm and use Soontir to flank the enemy swarm. Overwhelming the big ship with numbers helps to take down shields as quickly as possible, while the flanker forces the opponent to either split to deal with him or allow him to take free shots.

Hope this helps. I'm sure others can come up with other suggestions. There is more than one way to beat the fat YT-1300s and YT-1400s.

I'm considering Carnor Jax with intimidation as a counter to Lando/C-3P0. He's agile, and will be good at blocking. Get close no added defense, and if you touch, less defense dice, so your allies can blast them.

5 scimitars with Proton Torps.

Concentrate all firepower on that enemy large base. This is not a trap.

I disagree with 7falcon7wings7. If your opponent is going with a Fat Han and all your pilots are lower PS than him, there is no point in increasing your pilot skill as you will never beat him.

Also, if you find your opponent just targets Howlrunner early, then I have found there is no point in taking her. She would help with the re-rolls, but ends up dead too fast most of the time for me. I found I spend my points on better things. If you are able to keep her alive and she works for you, then you are fine.

I like Dark Curse as he's affordable, decent PS, and stops you from getting blasted.

Part of what can take the Falcon down is lots of shots. The Fat Han can evade one good shot a turn, but that's about it. Somehow getting the shots in is what will do it. Either a lot of shots from a swarm or from numerous high attack ships. The problem with the swarm is stopping the Falcon from arc dodging. The best way to do this is to try to block his lanes and force him to bump. This would prevent him from getting an action and severly helps. Any other method to get lots of hits in at the same time is good. Jonus in Tie Bomber w/ 3 other Tie Bombers all firing missiles/torpedoes would do some serious damage to a Falcon.

As far as staying at range three, most my opponents have seen through that strategy and utilize the 1300s speed to close distance within one or two turns.

When flying Tie Fighters against large base/expensive ships the best place to be is at range 1, not 3.

Consider that you're adding 3/4 red dices when they are only adding one. On the other hand, range 3 is not were you want to be, they are adding 3/4 green dices when you're only adding one.

You want to get to range 1, stay there and use blocking to prevent actions.

I disagree with 7falcon7wings7. If your opponent is going with a Fat Han and all your pilots are lower PS than him, there is no point in increasing your pilot skill as you will never beat him.

His post states he's talking about beating the escorts on pilot skill.

I also love me some dark curse (how could you tell?)

Him/her/it and Night Beast are the two most durable Tie Fighters you can field, and the best you're going to get in the dice-off that is encountering turreted ships who never have to worry about getting their shots off.

Also disagree about the ranges. Range 1 is one-shot territory for Tie Fighters, while ranges 2-3 are a much safer bet (adding 1 more unreliable green dice to your rolls isn't bad either) unless you're going in for the kill. Against Decimators especially, specifically Oiccun and especially Chiraneau, you want to be as far as possible. Ties like Howl or Backstabber in particular are ones you can only really use at these ranges, because otherwise the opponent is going to swiss-cheese them at the first possible opportunity (they'll be focused down because they're the offensive power-house of the ties while being just as durable). The only turret you want to be close to is the Outrider, for obvious reasons, or sending a nearly died tie off for blocking duty.

I've found that the best place in general to be relative to a large turret is some distance behind. It's generally very easy to line up consistent shots from that position because of the width of the 90-degree arc, unless they somehow book it past range 3 in which case they aren't getting shots either.

The absolute worst place to be is alongside of one, since it can very easily shoot past your ships while again not having to worry a **** about its facing.

I respect the fact that you have identified your weakness and are trying to improve rather that complain about how the game isn't fair because you aren't winning.

Here is my advice for beating Fat Turrets. Play some. Wait, wait. I am not say that you need to play turret ships to win, or that if you can't beat them-- join them. Instead I recommend playing some turret ships because nothing teaches you the weakness of like playing it yourself.

You are going find yourself secretly praying that your opponent doesn't bring certain ships or fly them in certain ways. Now you know what to bring and how to fly them.

Be sure to play the YT-1300 or Decimator, because the Outrider is an unnatural thing that is very easily exploited if not flown by someone familiar with its capabilities (and its no fun never getting to shoot )

The reason why I said to increase PS on the TIEs is because Fat Han lists will sometimes have a couple of low PS ships. True, there are players that use the double Falcon lists but from what I've seen, there are also several people who load up a YT-1300 and then use other ships for support. Since vying for initiative is a low payoff compared to the risk (losing 1, 2 or even 3 points to maybe get initiative is not worth it), it is better to have higher PS ships. As for Howlrunner, you will have 4 Hull points instead of just 3 with the "Hull Upgrade". Plus, TIE Fighters get "evade" as one of their actions, which can increase survivability. Yes, she kinda has a bullseye painted on her ship but her potential to help her team is tremendous. I've flown Howlrunner on a couple of tournaments; she's often one of the last ships remaining on the board.

heychadwick's suggestion of denying the YT-1300 actions is a good strategy. However, you don't want to do that every single round necessarily. Although you deny your opponent actions and the chance to fire at one of your ships, you also will be firing back with one ship less. To take it down, you'll need all the shots you can get. So, use judgment on when it's better to use action-denial. Even so, the suggestions posted here are good points and they should be taken into consideration.

Does Soontir die pretty fast? Mine usually do.

Fat Han really sucks to play against.

Have you tried the Nationals List?

Whisper VI ACD FCS Gunner (always takes an evade, then uses the Buzzsaw combo to do predictable damage).

Soontir PTL

Yorr

98 pts

You can swap Yorr for Darth Vader or FCS and a Hull on Soontir.

This build should have a better time vs Fat Han.

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As for your list... Seeing Soontir PTL makes me assume that he dies very fast all the time, even with Evade and Focus.

I'd almost question why you want to pincer... as your primary goal is simply: 1. keep falcon in arc. 2. throw dice at it. 3. survive with more than 3 tie fighters at full health. = win.

Why not slow roll at the falcon as one large clump, and have Howl focus up Soontir and Dark Curses' roll too. Maybe try and get the engagement to happen not HEAD ON but on the sides somehow. As ties have good turns, but have to red k turn. Also, this should avoid the mistake of perhaps getting one flank into the battle late.

Having all your ships go at Han at once also makes target choosing more difficult.... Howl? or Soontir?

You might also still want to try removing howl -> AP. that gives you 6 more points to play with....

Hull or Stealth for Soontir

Black Squadron + Draw Their Fire to up the survivability of your WHOLE group.

+ 5 total ties is still great. Dark Curse is still in there too.

Run in there as a 6 ship clump, blast him off a sideways engagement, take a hard turn, keep blasting him.

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also decimator builds will beat fat han. Take Gunner and Predator. Then maybe Isard and some sort of crit protection. Black DTF is great again. Moffy J is okay, but I like that Black DTF literally will usually pull 2 or 3 damage from the Decimator.