There is an easy way to prove all the poor players that rely on crutches how wrong they are, and how wonderful the defender is when fled by someone who has the skills...

Win worlds using at least 1 defender.

And without EU, of course. We don't want anyone to think you are lame. So far, everyone that tried didn't make it, nor even to the top 32... But that's because they were probably poor players that didn't truly know how to fly the ship...

Because unless a ship wins at worlds it's terrible. Don't see any flaws in this logic.

To be honest, even sighting it merely at the top 32 would have made me happy.

There is an easy way to prove all the poor players that rely on crutches how wrong they are, and how wonderful the defender is when fled by someone who has the skills...

Win worlds using at least 1 defender.

And without EU, of course. We don't want anyone to think you are lame. So far, everyone that tried didn't make it, nor even to the top 32... But that's because they were probably poor players that didn't truly know how to fly the ship...

Because unless a ship wins at worlds it's terrible. Don't see any flaws in this logic.

To be honest, even sighting it merely at the top 32 would have made me happy.

Firespray didn't make it in the top 32 either. And the Firespray is a good ship.

There's a big difference between a ship being good and being good in the current meta.

There's a big difference between a ship being good and being good in the current meta.

...or being considered a "safe" choice in a major competition, for that matter.

4 weeks ago I played my list of Rexler Brath and Vessery against a fat Chewbacca and Blue Squadron list.

I did so well my buddy blacked out he got so pissed off.

Is that proof that Tie Defenders have merit?

I think some people forget that Dial is factored in to cost, you trade your red K for white K and that's why your Sharps are red.

Let's have a count:

How many games have all the people who comment on it actually flown with a defender?

My total is 48? I have tried numerous builds and many different tactics. Honestly, I'm not saying we need boost, I'm just saying that I have lost many a game because I cannot effectively clear stress. If you look at every other ships dial they have the ability to do at least a bank (Be it 1 or 2 that is green). The defender doesn't. So rather them tell me how good it is, how about some solutions besides adding a 14 pt ship that can have wingman.

It's obivious, it wasn't play tested well and whoever did didn't understand what the EU states. The best pilots only, 20 or more mission flying in a basic tie, Tested like special forces, final test in front of lord vader or the top Defender Pilot. These guys should be able to remove stress. The EU states faster than and more maneuverable then A-wings. It's called the X-killer, Frankly I find the fact that anyone with a Pilot skill 1 would ever be allowed to fly the ship is crazy. In any case, I'm not saying it has to match fluff 100%, but as it is now it doesn't match any fluff. As for being fast, it's not any faster than a basic Tie, these are the best pilots in the Empire, but they have PS1 and don't have ept's except for named pilots. It's like they created a new ship. If it wasn't for Rexler and how it looks, I really don't think we would call it a defender.

I can tell you, Tactician, mara jade, or any other stress weapons like the new torpedoes just make it even worse. I have faced them all. Yes it can perform well, but it really doesn't do anything unique, except have a Heavy Laser, and a 4 K turn which can be blocked. It should have had a 5 red k turn or 3 red too.

I'm just hoping they do something to come close to the fluff of the ship.

It's...pretty easy to clear stress. You have 4 ways to do it: 2 straight, 3 straight, 4 straight, 5 straight. Unless you play against opponents that make a giant conga line of ships in front of you to cover every range band...you'll clear your stress and be free and clear.

If you're mad that you can't change facing when clearing stress, get an Engine Upgrade. If those aren't good enough, there's Wingman or the fantastic Yorr that benefits your entire squad. Or you could just fly Vessery and not care about stress at all. You could even ::gasp:: be stressed for a turn. I'll let you in on a secret, having a stress on your ship for one turn doesn't cause your ship to spontaneously combust.

Could everyone please take it down a notch!?

The original topic as started by eagletsi111 was and still is:

For fun, lets throw some ideas around, what if FFG released a title card that somehow made it easier for Tie Defenders to clear stress? Thats it!

If you don't think that the Tie Defender should have a new OPTIONAL tittle card added to it that is perfectly fine, but don't troll the forum suggesting that the people who are active contributing and brainstorming for ideas don't know how to fly a Tie Defender. A lot of us have played 50+ games, check out the battle report sub section for reference.

The original topic as started by eagletsi111 was and still is:

New Title for Tie Defender to help with stress removal?

For fun, lets throw some ideas around, what if FFG released a title card that somehow made it easier for Tie Defenders to clear stress? Thats it!

Well, first of all, this is a public forum, and we're allowed to discuss the pros AND cons of suggestions, and their relative merit. No-one's being aggressive, and no-one's straying off topic either, so backseat moderation is hardly required.

Secondly, suggesting that people who disagree with a particular suggestion, who play Devil's Advocate with the intent of critiquing a suggestion or who simply have a stance which doesn't match your own are trolls is... well... trolling.

Thirdly - no, I don't believe theTIE Defender should have a new OPTIONAL title which helps "make it easier" for it to shed stress, especially when the ship has been clearly designed with limited stress management in mind, and there are already ways to mitigate the effects of stress for those who choose to use them.

I just got an idea: All of us that have success and fun playing with the Defender as it is should stop arguing that the ship is already good and doesn't need a fix.

This way, FFG will start to believe that there really is a problem with the ship and give us an upgrade that makes it even better! Then we will all shout ''Long live the Defender supremacy!'' when we'll start to see threads about the Defender being overpowered!

Win-Win!

I just got an idea: All of us that have success and fun playing with the Defender as it is should stop arguing that the ship is already good and doesn't need a fix.

This way, FFG will start to believe that there really is a problem with the ship and give us an upgrade that makes it even better! Then we will all shout ''Long live the Defender supremacy!'' when we'll start to see threads about the Defender being overpowered!

Win-Win!

"We will start to see threads about the Defender being overpowered!" That warmed my heart! Nothing would make me happier than to see a thread like that!!!

I'm out of this thread, enjoy

I just got an idea: All of us that have success and fun playing with the Defender as it is should stop arguing that the ship is already good and doesn't need a fix.

This way, FFG will start to believe that there really is a problem with the ship and give us an upgrade that makes it even better! Then we will all shout ''Long live the Defender supremacy!'' when we'll start to see threads about the Defender being overpowered!

Win-Win!

"We will start to see threads about the Defender being overpowered!" That warmed my heart! Nothing would make me happier than to see a thread like that!!!

I think we had that a few months back.

As for what's considered good wasn't it only this summer at gencon where we had a surprise win featuring the shuttle? The first time a large base ship had been part of the winning squad.

And I'm pretty sure it's been out longer than the defender.

It would be nice if the Defender had a green bank. If you want to keep with the theme that slow is stressful on the ship, make the 3 banks green. Super-zoom ship!

3-banks green would be super stylish. That would make my day.

I'm not going to lie, I would love 3 banks on the defender. But if we are going to grant a card to modify the dial, why not go full unhinged astromech? However, I don't think the easier clearing of stress will make the defender better. As the defender doesn’t stress easily, more greens just isn’t what it needs.

I feel like most of the people complaining about defender stress are trying to use it as a super-'ceptor, running PTL or trying to knife fight with it. However, it is apparent that the designers didn't want to put the TIE/D in the same design space as the interceptor. Let say you make the tight turns white. An interceptor is still going to wipe the floor with it in a knife fight. A PTL royal with a shield and hull upgrade is 32 points, the same as an onyx. It lacks the white k-turn and raw durability but has much better stress clearing, 3 more PS, the evade action and something to actually justify getting stressed. If you further improve the defender in this role, say add more greens or lower the cost, you risk pushing the interceptor out of its niche. Simply put, there isn’t enough room in that little bit of design space for the two of them.

So, given that necessarily the defender can’t just be an improved interceptor, let’s look at what it’s got that defines it:

-White K-Turn

-Cannon Slot

-Poor Stress Clearing

-Poor Tight Turning

-Broad Range of Maneuvers

-3/3/3/3 Stat Line

So, we have a highly mobile and durable fighter with good firepower and poor knife fighting ability. Given its poor ‘jousting value’, you can’t just slug it out. Therefore, you need to minimize incoming firepower while maximizing damage output. That means staying at range with an ion cannon or HLC or trying to dart in, do damage, and disengage. Improving its ability to pull off this play style is really what the ship needs. I think a speed 2 boost fits this pretty closely.

It's obivious, it wasn't play tested well and whoever did didn't understand what the EU states.

Or by someone who is more aware of what the EU will be than you. There is after all any possibility that the Defender will return in the new canon and who knows, this might reflect that very accurately.

Though I, for one, am not convinced the Defender as it currently flies is not a good representation of how it actually flew in the TIE-Fighter games. It's been too long, need to buy me a joystick.

It's obivious, it wasn't play tested well and whoever did didn't understand what the EU states.

That really is the most ridiculous statement I've seen on this forum in a long while, and I've been following the Imperial Huge Ships thread.

Though I, for one, am not convinced the Defender as it currently flies is not a good representation of how it actually flew in the TIE-Fighter games. It's been too long, need to buy me a joystick.

It doesn't. If it did, it would have about a dozen shields and green everything. The Defender (in the original TIE Fighter, at least) was an "I Win" button against every other ship in the game, including capital ships.

Hmmm, maybe we're starting to see eagletsi111's problem here...

It's obivious, it wasn't play tested well and whoever did didn't understand what the EU states.

Or by someone who is more aware of what the EU will be than you. There is after all any possibility that the Defender will return in the new canon and who knows, this might reflect that very accurately.

Though I, for one, am not convinced the Defender as it currently flies is not a good representation of how it actually flew in the TIE-Fighter games. It's been too long, need to buy me a joystick.

Good old games has it and x-wing for digital purchase I've been playing tie fighter campaign lately it's as good as I remember you should defo play it again.

But the defender in that game would of been 3366 it's got double the shielding and a heavily armoured hull it's god mode.

My math has the defender as a middle of the pack ship based on stat line per point cost. When you factor that a bad pilot will get 3 shots for every two and a good one will get four the defender becomes very good imo. Stress sucks, but its not debilitating. If you use Vessery, why would you not bring someone that can provide target locks a high percentage of the time?

...So... anyone up for writing a "In Defense of the Tie Defender" article?

• explain that the Tie Defender from the computer game is not the mass produced / FFG Tie Defender (in Tie Fighter the computer game you play with Zarin T/D prototypes, not the final, Imperial mass production variant).
• emphasize the strengths and unique points of the ship: cannon slot, white K-Turn, 1 bank (rare on imperial ships), 5 Forward Green, 3 Evade.
• overview of the different playstyles: Delta vs Vessery vs Rexler
• explanation on how to disengage with T/D and re-engage the enemy at Range 2-3 when it does not have a boost.
• emphasis that a loaded T/D can go toe-to-toe with equal or even more point heavy Falcons, Outriders ... etc...
• Tips and tricks section (for example, never ever leave your defender pointing at an asteroid, it blocks too many of your maneuvers for next turn)
• etc...

Having a white 4k turn the ship was intentionally designed to be hard to get rid of stress

Just for fun, what about this as a solution: "This ship may take actions with 1 stress token". It's still pretty susceptible to control lists, but it basically gets one freebie if it's clean. That also let's you take tight turns (once) before they start to nail you. I'll go on record, however, as saying I don't really think the Defender is in any desperate need of a buff.

...So... anyone up for writing a "In Defense of the Tie Defender" article?

• explain that the Tie Defender from the computer game is not the mass produced / FFG Tie Defender (in Tie Fighter the computer game you play with Zarin T/D prototypes, not the final, Imperial mass production variant).
• emphasize the strengths and unique points of the ship: cannon slot, white K-Turn, 1 bank (rare on imperial ships), 5 Forward Green, 3 Evade.
• overview of the different playstyles: Delta vs Vessery vs Rexler
• explanation on how to disengage with T/D and re-engage the enemy at Range 2-3 when it does not have a boost.
• emphasis that a loaded T/D can go toe-to-toe with equal or even more point heavy Falcons, Outriders ... etc...
• Tips and tricks section (for example, never ever leave your defender pointing at an asteroid, it blocks too many of your maneuvers for next turn)
• etc...

I would be up to if my english was good enough to write an article. But since my vocabulary is limited, I'm not sure it would be a good read.

I also would not be able to write about the fluff since I never played X-Wing/Tie Fighter video games.

Soooo... I guess I'll just continue to defend it from time to time on the forum...

If only I could pay attention for more than a paragraph I would write an article. I would be willing to chip in on such a topic though.