Just wondering what everyone thinks about this. Right now you pay more points for ships that have target lock. But if your ship has a system slot and you take Fire control systems, then your ship earns the Action of Target lock and automatically gets to use it. Seems like it might not be intended as FFG expected. Since basically, almost all ships with Target lock action and system upgrade are over costed.

Just wondering what everyone thinks?

Hello, meet the Lambda Shuttle.

Totally understand that since it has target lock as an action it makes sense to me. It's just seems like FFG undercosted FCS.

FCS and target lock action are hardly the same. One needs to be used after an attack, while freeing up actions, the another gives you the freedom to use it whenever you want it, but you pay the action for it.

It's not like "giving you the TL action". It doesn't. You can't TL a ship out of your arc with FCS. FCS also telegraphs to your opponent what you want to shoot at before maneuvering, while TL does not on high PS ships.

FCS is fine where it is.

1) FCS doesn't give you an action, you acquire a target lock. And yes, there is a difference. So you can take the TL action in the activation phase, spend that TL in combat, and then acquire a new target lock from FCS.

2) it's on the ship you just shot at, so if you kill it, FCS does nothing.

I agree, but you are giving a ship that doesn't have the Action a limited form of the action, plus they get it for free, Instead of paying a action. So basically what your saying is a wash. And that it is undercosted.

Basically for killing it your right FCS does nothing, but what if you target lock as your action, and someone else kills it. Then you just switch targets and shoot with FCS and you get a free lock again on the new target. While the guy who spent his whole action taking a target lock is screwed, because no target lock and they have no focus token for defense.

This game is about economy of actions, the FCS ship never has to use Target lock as an action. They can always take a focus, and thus always have better attack and defense capabilities then a ship that has to take an action to get a target lock, because they now have no other tokens.

I understand how it works and also that it is basically equal to a target lock action, but it cost so much less and is free action too.

If FFG stated, "That it only works on ships that have the target lock action, it would help balance the cost of it" And make target locks somewhat valuable again.

I haven't checked.. but I think all ships with a systems slot.. have the ability to TL... so ... Moot point.... just off the top of my head..

I understand how it works and also that it is basically equal to a target lock action, but it cost so much less and is free action too.

It's not equal to a TL action.

You can only use it on a ship you've attacked. That means you can only use it in your arc. It also means that your next target is telegraphed for the next turn, so the other guy can keep that ship out of the arc of the ship with FCS, making it pointless.

It also doesn't help any if the ship you attacked dies that turn.

It takes up a System slot, and the two ships that can take FCS also really like AdvSen. There is one and only one ship that can take it that doesn't have TL already, that's the Phantom.

So given all it's limitations, it's not IMO undercosted at all.

I agree, but you are giving a ship that doesn't have the Action a limited form of the action, plus they get it for free, Instead of paying a action. So basically what your saying is a wash. And that it is undercosted.

Basically for killing it your right FCS does nothing, but what if you target lock as your action, and someone else kills it. Then you just switch targets and shoot with FCS and you get a free lock again on the new target. While the guy who spent his whole action taking a target lock is screwed, because no target lock and they have no focus token for defense.

This game is about economy of actions, the FCS ship never has to use Target lock as an action. They can always take a focus, and thus always have better attack and defense capabilities then a ship that has to take an action to get a target lock, because they now have no other tokens.

I understand how it works and also that it is basically equal to a target lock action, but it cost so much less and is free action too.

If FFG stated, "That it only works on ships that have the target lock action, it would help balance the cost of it" And make target locks somewhat valuable again.

Somewhat valuable again? FCS doesn't make TLs not valuable anymore... You seem to just ignore that the TL happens after the attack is over. Meaning not only does that ship have to be alive still, but you need to be able to keep that ship in your arc next turn to make it worthwhile. FFG has done plenty to balance the cost of this card....

As far as i can tell the only ship that has been released that has a system upgrade slot, and does not have the target lock action is the Tie Phantom. Seeing as the Phantom expansion pack comes with a FCS card I'm guessing that FFG intends FCS to work on ships without the target lock action.

I haven't checked.. but I think all ships with a systems slot.. have the ability to TL... so ... Moot point.... just off the top of my head..

Phantom doesn't have the TL action iirc.

I haven't checked.. but I think all ships with a systems slot.. have the ability to TL... so ... Moot point.... just off the top of my head..

Phantom doesn't have the TL action iirc.

Phantom does not, which, i am pretty sure everybody who has played it has noticed, would be very very helpful at choosing what action to do when you really don't know if you are in range or not when eyeballing for the ACD.

As far as i can tell the only ship that has been released that has a system upgrade slot, and does not have the target lock action is the Tie Phantom. Seeing as the Phantom expansion pack comes with a FCS card I'm guessing that FFG intends FCS to work on ships without the target lock action.

Exactly, and since every other ship that can take FCS has a TL action we are talking about the Phantom exclusively here, let's keep that in mind.

But oh well suddenly we don't have a systems upgrade that is underpriced but a ship that is underpriced. The Phantom is too cheap, all of its pilots except shadow squadron are too cheap. But then shadow doesnt see play for other reasons actually. That's exactly why the ship rewrites the meta at the moment. The Defender pays waaaay too much for its white K-turn while a generic Phantom that can do much MUCH more is at 5 points lower?

Trust me, FCS is a very good option on ships that have TL, but on a ship that's already too cheap and basically gains the ability to TL on top, it's disgusting, but not because the option itself is too cheap!

As far as i can tell the only ship that has been released that has a system upgrade slot, and does not have the target lock action is the Tie Phantom. Seeing as the Phantom expansion pack comes with a FCS card I'm guessing that FFG intends FCS to work on ships without the target lock action.

Dag nabbit.. I missed that one... strikes me as odd...

FCS on the phantom is hardly broken. Everything else with FCS can already target lock.

As far as i can tell the only ship that has been released that has a system upgrade slot, and does not have the target lock action is the Tie Phantom. Seeing as the Phantom expansion pack comes with a FCS card I'm guessing that FFG intends FCS to work on ships without the target lock action.

Exactly, and since every other ship that can take FCS has a TL action we are talking about the Phantom exclusively here, let's keep that in mind.

But oh well suddenly we don't have a systems upgrade that is underpriced but a ship that is underpriced. The Phantom is too cheap, all of its pilots except shadow squadron are too cheap. But then shadow doesnt see play for other reasons actually. That's exactly why the ship rewrites the meta at the moment. The Defender pays waaaay too much for its white K-turn while a generic Phantom that can do much MUCH more is at 5 points lower?

Trust me, FCS is a very good option on ships that have TL, but on a ship that's already too cheap and basically gains the ability to TL on top, it's disgusting, but not because the option itself is too cheap!

I agree, but you are giving a ship that doesn't have the Action a limited form of the action, plus they get it for free, Instead of paying a action. So basically what your saying is a wash. And that it is undercosted.

Basically for killing it your right FCS does nothing, but what if you target lock as your action, and someone else kills it. Then you just switch targets and shoot with FCS and you get a free lock again on the new target. While the guy who spent his whole action taking a target lock is screwed, because no target lock and they have no focus token for defense.

This game is about economy of actions, the FCS ship never has to use Target lock as an action. They can always take a focus, and thus always have better attack and defense capabilities then a ship that has to take an action to get a target lock, because they now have no other tokens.

I understand how it works and also that it is basically equal to a target lock action, but it cost so much less and is free action too.

If FFG stated, "That it only works on ships that have the target lock action, it would help balance the cost of it" And make target locks somewhat valuable again.

This is typically why you want to take Focus as your action over Target Lock if you think you're going to be getting shot.

And it's not equal to a target lock action. Are you missing where you can't use it when you acquire it? The order of operations for FCS goes

1) declare target

2) roll and modify attack dice

3) roll and modify Defense dice

4) resolve damage

5) FCS kicks in, gain a TL on the defender if they are still alive.

Yes, it still helps with action economy, but it only allows for a single action, the benefit is delayed for a turn, you need to be able to shoot the same ship again, and it becomes pointless if you're focusing a target down and it dies before the next round of shooting. Compare those drawbacks to other action economy boosters like PTL, EI and various pilot abilities that let you immediately gain benifit, and in the case of the former two let you take basically any action you choose, that cost a point more and don't take up the incredibly valuable systems slot.

As far as i can tell the only ship that has been released that has a system upgrade slot, and does not have the target lock action is the Tie Phantom. Seeing as the Phantom expansion pack comes with a FCS card I'm guessing that FFG intends FCS to work on ships without the target lock action.

Exactly, and since every other ship that can take FCS has a TL action we are talking about the Phantom exclusively here, let's keep that in mind.

But oh well suddenly we don't have a systems upgrade that is underpriced but a ship that is underpriced. The Phantom is too cheap, all of its pilots except shadow squadron are too cheap. But then shadow doesnt see play for other reasons actually. That's exactly why the ship rewrites the meta at the moment. The Defender pays waaaay too much for its white K-turn while a generic Phantom that can do much MUCH more is at 5 points lower?

Trust me, FCS is a very good option on ships that have TL, but on a ship that's already too cheap and basically gains the ability to TL on top, it's disgusting, but not because the option itself is too cheap!

Defender has a hull and shield over the Phantom.. there is your 5 points. And TL too..

Phantom's Dial > Defender's dial

Cloak > TL

4 attack dice > 3 attack dice

I could go on and on. The Phantom is a lot better than a Defender could ever hope to be. The Defender didn't get into the top 32 at worlds. The Phantom was at the final table.

The Defender pays waaaay too much for its white K-turn while a generic Phantom that can do much MUCH more is at 5 points lower?

Naked generic phantoms are kinda crap. If you want to compare the 25pt Sigma to the 30 Delta, Sigma's down an agility die and flying on a TIE fighter dial if it doesn't cloak and if it does cloaks its firepower halves (shoots every other turn). As for what it can do? Not that much more than the Defender in an actual fight. Healthwise its got the toughness of a Z-95 if shot uncloaked (which with this setup will happen a lot) compared to the Defender's 3/3/3 which is on par with a Firespray. Delta versus Sigma? Delta wins hands down.

Yes, it's got some nifty upgrade slots, but once you start upgrading the phantom you've got to take the cost of those upgrades into account. Whisper (ACD, Sensor Jammer, VI, Rebel Captive) is an incredibly good buy and a nightmare to kill. It's also 44 points. If you're spending 14 points more than that Delta Defender you're going to expect better. For comparision, the same 44 points buys Rexler Brath (Heavy Laser Cannon) in TIE defender terms, or Rexler Brath (Predator, Shield Upgrade) if you're not an HLC Defender person.

The Phantom's strength is ACD and VI turning the named pilots into almost permanent arcdodging 4/4/2/2s. Sigma and Shadow aren't unbalanced by any definition of the word.

The Phantom was at the final table.

Whisper was at the final table. Not a naked Sigma.

If you want to compare Whisper, compare Whisper to something of equal cost.

Phantom's Dial > Defender's dial

The Phantom's dial is a TIE fighter dial without the 5 straight. Exactly a TIE fighter dial without the 5 straight. It's decloaking every turn that makes it crazy maneuverable. You need both ACD and a shot every turn to do that.

But oh well suddenly we don't have a systems upgrade that is underpriced but a ship that is underpriced. The Phantom is too cheap, all of its pilots except shadow squadron are too cheap. But then shadow doesnt see play for other reasons actually. That's exactly why the ship rewrites the meta at the moment.

ACD rewrites the meta. It was also designed to. It didn't work out as planned but the TIE phantom was made to shake things up.

Sigma and Shadow aren't unbalanced by any definition of the word.

I'd say the only issue with the Phantom is ACD + high PS. If Whisper and Echo couldn't take VI, the meta would look very, very different. To the point I'm not sure you'd even see them.

A Uncloaked Phantom is toast in pretty short order, and the only reason you see them so often is because at PS9 w/ACD you are effectively perma-cloaked.

I think FCS is fine. I costs 2 point and the opportunity cost to use the System slot for something else. It's always a hard decision to put FCS or Advanced Sensors on a ship. Sure, you get a free TL after you attack someone, but that is not always going to be useful. Like others have pointed out, a lot of the time the ship you fired at will be dead before you get your followup shot. We just practiced an Epic list with 8 HLC Dagger Bwings with FCS. We had to completely adjust the list and swap the FCS for AdvSensor. Those FCS target locks were hardly ever getting use. The ship they were shooting at was dying and the FCS TLs were nearly useless.

FCS does make follow up shots very effective, but that's it's purpose. It's job is to make sure you can do serious hurt to a ship if you get to fire on it twice.

I have to wonder if the OP lost to a list with a lot FCS in it and has FCS blinders on. It's strong, but it's no where near strong enough to be a problem that needs fixing.

Best use of FCS I think is on Corran, because it's handy for his double tap. It also pairs semi-well with R7 Astromech, because if you shot it, it's likely going to shoot you.

But other than those two cases, it seems AdvSen is generally more useful. It by no means makes a normal TL useless.

FCS is also very useful in a meta where big, long lifed ships like the Falcon or Decimator are present.

I love FCS because, as others have said, it frees up an action for something else. And your attack doesn't even have to hit for it to work.

I have no problem with the cost, I have problem with a ship not being able to target lock, Get to use the card.

So right now the Phantom, but others will be coming too. I'm just stating what I see as not a valid part of the game. Focus I can understand passing off to others. Hey look over there! But here catch this computer and install it into your ship in the middle of space while in the middle of a battle. Now that is extreme, but you catch my drift, If the phantom had target lock it would cost 2 more points more per ship, which makes sense. There is a modification that grants target lock for 2 points. So just add two more points to each phantom and as well as target lock and all is well.

FFG said they don't errata like ship cards like that, They admitted in the interview with covenant that the phantom should only have a 3 attack and that is was undercosted. So this card slight errata change fixes a major issue with the phantom, without getting new sets and cards, just make a slight note, should state "Only works on ships with Target lock"