Accuracy Corrector clarification needed

By DagobahDave, in X-Wing Rules Questions

This is currently being discussed on the X-Wing Reddit sub.

Read the card texts for Accuracy Corrector and R7-T1. They both contain two sets of "may" abilities. Then read the FAQ entry for R7-T1.

It seems pretty clear to me that, for 3 points, Accuracy Corrector's second "may" is only possible if you chose to cancel the dice results using the first "may", but that's inconsistent with the similar phrasing and ruling for R7-T1.

We probably won't get a clarification on this until Wave VI is released, but I'm finding it tough to come up with an argument why AC should not work like R7-T1 until then.

Are there other examples of cards with two sets of "may" abilities?

Edited by DagobahDave

Honestly? R7-T1 is a bad ruling, and shouldn't be taken as precedent.

The key here isn't it being two optional abilities, it's that there are two parts separated by "Then...". A number of abilities have a "You may X. Then, Y" template. For all of them except R7-T1, Y only happens if you do X. Push the Limit is a good example - if you read Y as always happening whether you choost to do X, then PtL gives you a stress whenever you perform an action whether you take the second action or not. Pretty obviously it doesn't work that way. There are other examples including the Chewbacca crew card and Expert Handling, both of which have explicit FAQ entries which back that up.

The Y ability in this case being a "may" ability is irrelevant - the text doesn't activate at all unless you choose to do the first half (cancel your die results).

So to wrap it all back around, R7-T1 as written should have followed that pattern, and the boost should have been dependent on the target lock. But that wasn't what FFG had in mind when they wrote it, so we get yet another inconsistent ruling.

Edited by Buhallin

IMO, there's another problem with R7-T1.

While the FAQ details what happens when you are at range and inside arc (and that's why we know that the boost part is independent of the TL one), it doesn't details what happens when you are at range but outside arc.

Does the whole R7-T1 action fail completely? Can you take another action instead?

Since the arc requeriment, as written, affects only to the TL part... Can you still take the boost part because it's independent from the TL part?

Those questions remain in obscurity. R7-T1 is a card on its own (and a pretty problematic one) and shouldn't be taken as a model for any analogy or interpretations.

IMO, there's another problem with R7-T1.

While the FAQ details what happens when you are at range and inside arc (and that's why we know that the boost part is independent of the TL one), it doesn't details what happens when you are at range but outside arc.

Does the whole R7-T1 action fail completely? Can you take another action instead?

Since the arc requeriment, as written, affects only to the TL part... Can you still take the boost part because it's independent from the TL part?

Those questions remain in obscurity. R7-T1 is a card on its own (and a pretty problematic one) and shouldn't be taken as a model for any analogy or interpretations.

The FAQ most definitely addresses this scenario. Straight from it you have to be both within range 1-2 and inside the firing arc of any enemy ship for either result to trigger.

The "does the action fail/can you take another action" question should be resolved by the precedent set by Target Lock. With Target Lock, you declare "I'm using the Target Lock action to acquire a lock on ship X". You then check range, and if you don't meet the within range three requirement, you get to pick a new action. In the case of R7-T1, it'd go "I'm going to use R7-T1's action on Ship X", then you check the two conditions for R7-T1 to trigger, is your ship within Range 1-2 and within Ship X's firing arc? If not, pick a different action.

I don't want to re-open that particular can of worms, but again, according to the card as written, the being-in-arc condition only affects the Target Lock part.

And the problem is exacerbated precisely because now we know for sure that you may perform the boost part even if you don't perform the Target Lock part.

Thus, the problem persists. What exactly happens if you are not in arc? The whole card fails? or Only the Target Lock fails?

If the intention of the Devs is the card being usable only if you are in arc, then it should be rewritten to avoid confusions, or simply add a quote in the FAQ that says: "You can't perform R7-T1 if you are not in the enemy's firing arc", because as it is currently written, the only thing that it is specifically forbidden if you aren't in arc is the Target Lock. The rest of the card (choosing a target at range 1-2, and then boosting), as written, can be performed even if you are not in arc.

Choose a target at range 1-2. [Check, no problem]

If you are in its fire arc you may take a Target Lock. [i'm not in arc , so I can't take the target lock]

Then, you may boost [Fine, because I know for sure that I can take the boost even if I didn't take the target lock]

It may be a mere semantic problem, But IMO, it is enough to cause a reasonable doubt. And it can be easily solved with a Dev's clarification about what exactly happens when you meet the range requeriment, but no the arc one.

Edited by Jehan Menasis

I don't want to re-open that particular can of worms, but again, according to the card as written, the being-in-arc condition only affects the Target Lock part.

And the problem is exacerbated precisely because now we know for sure that you may perform the boost part even if you don't perform the Target Lock part.

Thus, the problem persists. What exactly happens if you are not in arc? The whole card fails? or Only the Target Lock fails?

If the intention of the Devs is the card being usable only if you are in arc, then it should be rewritten to avoid confusions, or simply add a quote in the FAQ that says: "You can't perform R7-T1 if you are not in the enemy's firing arc", because as it is currently written, the only thing that it is specifically forbidden if you aren't in arc is the Target Lock. The rest of the card (choosing a target at range 1-2, and then boosting), as written, can be performed even if you are not in arc.

Choose a target at range 1-2. [Check, no problem]

If you are in its fire arc you may take a Target Lock. [i'm not in arc , so I can't take the target lock]

Then, you may boost [Fine, because I know for sure that I can take the boost even if I didn't take the target lock]

It may be a mere semantic problem, But IMO, it is enough to cause a reasonable doubt. And it can be easily solved with a Dev's clarification about what exactly happens when you meet the range requeriment, but no the arc one.

Nothing, because you have to meet both. The card may be unclear but the FAQ spells it out plainly, to quote from it directly, emphasis mine

If a ship equipped with R7-T1 is at Range 1-2 and inside the firing arc of an enemy ship, the following sequence occurs: the ship equipped with R7-T1 may acquire a target lock on the enemy ship. Then, the ship equipped with R7-T1 may perform a boost action, even if it did not acquire a target lock on the enemy ship.

The sequence being the rest of the card text after the colon. According to the FAQ, both the boost and target lock are dependent on both requirements being met. You have to be willfully misinterpreting it to have it say otherwise.

As for Accuracy Corrector, it wouldn't be the first card to have the text change between the preview and the actual release(I believe this happened with Fleet Officer to clarify it could work on itself, yes?) so lets wait till we have the physical card in hand to decide how badly it's worded.

The card may be unclear but the FAQ spells it out plainly...

No it does not.

The FAQ only talks about the ship being inside a firing arc. It does not say what happens if the ship is outside any firing arc. There may be an implication but nothing explicit. Some uncertainty remains.

The sequence being the rest of the card text after the colon.

I know what the FAQ says, and so we know what RAI is for R7-T1, but unless they changed the text, that card doesn't work like FFG says it does.

Because RAW the check for arc is part of the TL process, and it can easily be argued from a point of grammar that the boost is part of a separate process.

Frankly, R7-T1 is one of the worse worded cards FFG has come out with. They should of errta'ed the card IMO to this.

"Action: Choose an enemy ship at Range 1-2, if you are inside that ship's firing arc. You may acquire a target lock on that ship. Then, you may perform a free boost action."

The change is pretty minor, change a period to a comma and a comma to a period. But then the wording of the card actually matches up with how they want it to work.

Edited by VanorDM

While FFG could do a better job wording cards, they are very consistent when they use the word 'Then'. It always relate to an option, a condition or a choice you make. For PtL you only get the stress if you chose to perform the free action.
The same goes for AC. You only add 2 Hit results if you chose to cancel your dice.

As for R7-T1, it was never a question about what happened ifor you were out of range or arc. The problem was that the card has a condition and a choice, and it was unclear which one 'Then' related to. The FAQ clarified that 'Then' related to the condition (in Range 1-2 and in arc)

Edited by StephenEsven

As for R7-T1, it was never a question about what happened ifor you were out of range or arc.

You didn't read the discussions when the card was originally spoiled, did you?

yes I did. I recall people discussing wether you could do the Boost depending on doing the Target Lock.

i might have missed out on an other discussion though. I only remember the Boost without Target Lock discussion.

But like I said, I think FFG is quite consistent on the use of the word 'Then'. I can't recall a card that has the word 'Then' meaning do this always. It is always dependent on a choide or condition.

But like I said, I think FFG is quite consistent on the use of the word 'Then'.

Yes they are. The meaning is temporal: "After that".