So I've been doing a bit of research into A-wing lists and I've been seeing alot about how Predator is a waste of points on a 2 dice attack ship, and I don't follow. Let's say for instance I've got a green squadron with PTL and Predator. How often will I need to reroll both attack dice? Having the freeroll lets me free up my actions for focus+evade/position enhancement.

Could one of the Mathwingers give me an idea as to why people are saying that?

Predator is slightly less than a Target Lock with your Boost/Focus/Evade.

PTL can get you a Full Target Lock with your Boost/Focus/Evade.

Predator allows Koiograns and Whites. Most folks think that with its dial, the A-Wing doesn't need that insurance, and would prefer the improved damage of PTL.

With the Test Pilot upgrade, you can take Predator and PTL.

But you can take both! (dangit )

its more like, what do you want with your second EPT? VI and Expert handeling are good choices, less so EH.

The question is: what role do you want your A-Wing to play? If you want a great flanker, go PTL and Outmanuver. If you're carrying missiles for some reason? PTL + Predator will be great for the missile attack, and not bad the rest of the game. Want no one to ever know where you're going to be? Run PTL and Daredevil. Running next to someone with out alot of green? PTL + Wingman. Have a low PS pilot that you want to make super nasty? Predator and Opportunist. I'd prefer PTL to Predator, tbh, but Oportinist is mutually exclusive with PTL.

Etc and so on.

The question is: what role do you want your A-Wing to play? If you want a great flanker, go PTL and Outmanuver. If you're carrying missiles for some reason? PTL + Predator will be great for the missile attack, and not bad the rest of the game. Want no one to ever know where you're going to be? Run PTL and Daredevil. Running next to someone with out alot of green? PTL + Wingman. Have a low PS pilot that you want to make super nasty? Predator and Opportunist. I'd prefer PTL to Predator, tbh, but Oportinist is mutually exclusive with PTL.

Etc and so on.

PTL and dare devil can only work on Tycho as PTL only allows you to make an additional action from your action bar and daredevil gives you a stress once you completed that action.

Now EI + A-wing Test Pilot + Predator + Daredevil and you might have something there.

The question is: what role do you want your A-Wing to play? If you want a great flanker, go PTL and Outmanuver. If you're carrying missiles for some reason? PTL + Predator will be great for the missile attack, and not bad the rest of the game. Want no one to ever know where you're going to be? Run PTL and Daredevil. Running next to someone with out alot of green? PTL + Wingman. Have a low PS pilot that you want to make super nasty? Predator and Opportunist. I'd prefer PTL to Predator, tbh, but Oportinist is mutually exclusive with PTL.

Etc and so on.

PTL and dare devil can only work on Tycho as PTL only allows you to make an additional action from your action bar and daredevil gives you a stress once you completed that action.

Now EI + A-wing Test Pilot + Predator + Daredevil and you might have something there.

Not so with the recent FAQ that says that PTL can interrupt an action before it is resolved. So one can use daredevil and then before daredevil is resolved, you can PTL and get a free action and then get the stress from both PTL and daredevil. IT's risky to have two stresses, but it can be done.

But daredevil does not have a nested action that can trigger PTL. The FAQ is clarifying that if PTL is triggered - in the middle of an action - it can interrupt the root action. Expert handling, for example. You begin executing the expert handling action, which causes you to execute a barrel roll action, after the barrel roll action is completed PTL can trigger, interrupting the rest of the expert handling action. Daredevil doesn't have that kind of wording. There is no action that you perform in the middle of performing the daredevil action to trigger PTL, so PTL has to wait until the the daredevil action is completed before it can trigger, and by the time daredevil completes you have already gained a stress.

Boost first. Then PTL and Daredevil.

With the Test Pilot upgrade, you can take Predator and PTL.

That's what I mean, it frees up my PTL to be a reposition/defensive action without sacrificing my offense, so i don't understand why people seem to not like it

Hi, I'm R22,

I must confess that I've run Tycho with PTL so many times that I've forgotten what it's like to use k-turns on A-wings, be impacted by stress, or need to incorporate green movements for action economy.

Group: Hi R22

Well quite honestly i don't consider predator for A-Wings.

If i run them it's either 26/28 point Jake Farrel with VI or Outmaneuver alongside PTL.

Or it would be Stresshead Tycho with Daredevil or rarely with expert handling and EI.

As you see for a ship like the A-Wing i value maneuvrability over firepower, and even then i would consider Lone Wolf over Predator forva flanker if i went for firepower because of the defensive component in it. Finally i am more impressed with outmaneuver on the A-Wing because it gives a big middle finger to C3PO and makes it at least possible to hurt stealthed Ties or Cloaked phantoms, while decloaked phantoms have a real problem!

I usually use Outmaneuver and PTL. I really like that combo.

Boost first. Then PTL and Daredevil.

You can't do that either. PTL allows you to take an action on your action bar, which, Daredevil is not.

However, Tycho can take both PTL, DD, and EI and make great use of all of it. If you're curious about how, search for my Tycho Celchu: Daredevil 101 thread.

Mathematically, the more dice you roll, the more effect a single reroll will have. Conversely, the fewer dice you roll, the closer you are to a TL with a single reroll.

On A-wings, Predator almost replaces TL, just as Howl almost replaces TL. What does that mean for you,I don't know, depends on what you hope to achieve with that A-wing.

Predator is a waste of points on a 2 dice attack ship

Given people consider Howlrunner almost essential to a TIE swarm and given what Howlrunner does is provide a TIE swarm with single rerolls...

outmaneuver on the A-Wing because it gives a big middle finger to C3PO

Except it doesn't unless all your ships have Outmaneuver.

Depends on your style, depends what you like.

I wouldn't choose it for me, as I think PtL gives more options, both damage and maneuverability.

That said, if someone wanted me to play Predator A-Wings, I think I could make a reasonable list and have a lot of fun with it.

You could combine it with PTL for good results I'd think. Use PTL for positioning and/or turtling up on defense, and then predator (possibly with focus) for offense.

Predator is a waste of points on a 2 dice attack ship

Given people consider Howlrunner almost essential to a TIE swarm and given what Howlrunner does is provide a TIE swarm with single rerolls...

True, but you could get 5 Black Squadron Tie Fighters each with Predator and the upgrade costs of Predator is cheaper than Howlrunner. Then again, you have to have 5 Tie Defenders to do it.

I like Predator + Outmaneuver on Jake. With a free Boost or Barrel Roll with a focus, PtL seems a bit redundant. If you take a focus action and have Predator, you effectively have Focus + Boost + TL, and no stress. I think losing a reroll on one die is worth the price of no stress.

I've been running Jake with Lone Wolf instead of Predator, but the idea is the same. You know he's going to have a focus, so you'd only be rerolling on a blank, at which point, LW is just as a good as predator. Being an A wing, he's the perfect ship as a flanker, that normally leaves him out on his own. I've actually had great success in running him as a distraction against the enemy flanker, keeping both away from the fight (but their's is typically more expensive).

Meanwhile, it's one of the only things that allows you to reroll your greens, which helps alleviate some of the randomness of the agility dice.

Speaking of Outmaneuvre, I like running to Ion platform Y's with two Predator/Outmaneuvre Green Squadrons. It works pretty effectively until the Y-wings get burned down.