You obviously don't Vader every single round... Also I will gladly take the damage to get rid of Fel or whisper that easily.

Does terrible against decimators with gunner and vader...

Head to head you are absolutely correct.

That being said, my hunch is that Decimator + Vader lists will be a flash in the pan and never be competitive in a tournament. I think it's simply going to come up against too many lists that can shred it way too quickly regardless of whether you pop Vader or not (and you will).

The cheapest you can get into that particular setup is 48 points. If you opt for a named Decimator you will likely be pumping WAY more into it than that. Taking out 1 Interceptor with Autothrusters is one thing. Taking out multiple before meeting your demise is another, particularly if you pop Vader twice per attack sequence.

I respectfully disagree. Vader+Moff JJ on Cap Kirk has been pretty nasty so far. One of the biggest issues with Yssane and Kirk is that you need to have at least 1 damage card for them to activate, meaning if you happen to lose all 4 shields, you can still end up taking 4+ hits before getting the chance to evade. Using Vader to strip off shields gives you a lot more control over those abilities. Ideally Vader can knock off your last shield and dish out 1 card by the 2nd round, but its still better to take 1 or 2 self-inflected hits than take 3-4 unshielded hits. You can then sac him as soon as a nasty crit pops up. This helps you get Ysanne and Kirk's abilities to activate quickly while giving you an extra upgrade to drop for JJ. I've found that Vader can ironically make Kirk a lot tankier.

I'm highly skeptical of Vader Decimator lists. Even this one with Kirk. I'm not sold that the points you are putting into it are going to help you to be defensive enough to withstand a barrage of heavy fire.

With Isard, Vader and Moff JJ on Kirk you are at 53. What else are you typically putting on him for an EPT? Are you using EI? Also what kind of support are you giving your Decimator?

Again I'm skeptical but I've been wrong many times before.

Does terrible against decimators with gunner and vader...

Head to head you are absolutely correct.

That being said, my hunch is that Decimator + Vader lists will be a flash in the pan and never be competitive in a tournament. I think it's simply going to come up against too many lists that can shred it way too quickly regardless of whether you pop Vader or not (and you will).

The cheapest you can get into that particular setup is 48 points. If you opt for a named Decimator you will likely be pumping WAY more into it than that. Taking out 1 Interceptor with Autothrusters is one thing. Taking out multiple before meeting your demise is another, particularly if you pop Vader twice per attack sequence.

I respectfully disagree. Vader+Moff JJ on Cap Kirk has been pretty nasty so far. One of the biggest issues with Yssane and Kirk is that you need to have at least 1 damage card for them to activate, meaning if you happen to lose all 4 shields, you can still end up taking 4+ hits before getting the chance to evade. Using Vader to strip off shields gives you a lot more control over those abilities. Ideally Vader can knock off your last shield and dish out 1 card by the 2nd round, but its still better to take 1 or 2 self-inflected hits than take 3-4 unshielded hits. You can then sac him as soon as a nasty crit pops up. This helps you get Ysanne and Kirk's abilities to activate quickly while giving you an extra upgrade to drop for JJ. I've found that Vader can ironically make Kirk a lot tankier.

I'm highly skeptical of Vader Decimator lists. Even this one with Kirk. I'm not sold that the points you are putting into it are going to help you to be defensive enough to withstand a barrage of heavy fire.

With Isard, Vader and Moff JJ on Kirk you are at 53. What else are you typically putting on him for an EPT? Are you using EI? Also what kind of support are you giving your Decimator?

Again I'm skeptical but I've been wrong many times before.

I agree. If I have a Fel/Whisper, the rest of my fleet is going to destroy Vader before he get close enough to get a crit on me.

I think a MathWing analysis would be most useful. Alas, I don't know how to do MathWing.

My version is just brute-force elementary statistics.

The next level is learning a small amount of programming to take the "brute-force" out of it.

Following that, figure out how to assign variables to things that aren't directly statistic (like maneuverability).

I think a MathWing analysis would be most useful. Alas, I don't know how to do MathWing.

My version is just brute-force elementary statistics.

The next level is learning a small amount of programming to take the "brute-force" out of it.

Following that, figure out how to assign variables to things that aren't directly statistic (like maneuverability).

You might be interested in this: https://gist.github.com/elistevens/9fbcffb3f33e26eb475c

You can then do things like:

>>> dice.vs(dice.attack(4,4,False), dice.defense(0,0,False))
(3.0, {0: 0.00390625, 1: 0.046875, 2: 0.2109375, 3: 0.421875, 4: 0.31640625})

If you want to see individual die faces:

>>> dice.attack(4,4,False)
{'HHxx': 0.0296630859375, 'HHHf': 0.0889892578125, 'CHff': 0.019775390625, 'CCHH': 0.066741943359375, 'CHfx': 0.03955078125, 'HHHx': 0.0889892578125, 'CCHf': 0.0296630859375, 'HHHH': 0.1001129150390625, 'ffff': 0.000244140625, 'fffx': 0.0009765625, 'Hxxx': 0.00439453125, 'Hfxx': 0.01318359375, 'CCHx': 0.0296630859375, 'CHHf': 0.0889892578125, 'CCff': 0.0032958984375, 'CHxx': 0.019775390625, 'CCCC': 0.0012359619140625, 'Cfxx': 0.00439453125, 'CCfx': 0.006591796875, 'CCxx': 0.0032958984375, 'xxxx': 0.000244140625, 'CCCH': 0.01483154296875, 'CHHx': 0.0889892578125, 'HHff': 0.0296630859375, 'Cfff': 0.00146484375, 'Hffx': 0.01318359375, 'fxxx': 0.0009765625, 'CCCx': 0.0032958984375, 'CHHH': 0.13348388671875, 'Cffx': 0.00439453125, 'ffxx': 0.00146484375, 'CCCf': 0.0032958984375, 'Hfff': 0.00439453125, 'Cxxx': 0.00146484375, 'HHfx': 0.059326171875}

H=hit (natural)

h=hit (from focus)

f=focus (unused)

x=blank

E=evade (natural)

e=evade (from focus)

Sadly, I don't have support for limited-focus abilities (like Luke's X-Wing ability), or for blank-to-something conversions. Someday. Updates welcome!

Sadly, I don't have support for limited-focus abilities (like Luke's X-Wing ability), or for blank-to-something conversions. Someday. Updates welcome!

Brute Force wins again!

"If Violence wasn't the answer, you didn't apply enough."

I think a MathWing analysis would be most useful. Alas, I don't know how to do MathWing.

It's in my backlog, but no ETA. There are several different ways to analyze it.

I've been wanting to try Turr + Lone Wolf + Royal Guard Title + Stealth Device + Autothrusters but I haven't had a chance to yet.

I've been wanting to try Turr + Lone Wolf + Royal Guard Title + Stealth Device + Autothrusters but I haven't had a chance to yet.

That should be a nasty combo.

btw, i need to retract a statement i made earlier. Double falcon won't die form this. But it will have a much harder time vs Interceptor lists, which is the point of autothrusters.

double falcon will still be good against some other conventional lists.

"I have failed me for the last time!"

I should also add that when using it on Soontir, when playing a falcon that is mostly taking defensive actions, and has no gunner, moving into range 1 behind them is very viable as you know with thrusters and an evade token you will cancel at least 2 hits for sure. So they'd have to roll like a champ to have a chance at damaging you.

I tried Autothrusters with a triple named Squint list (Sontir, Carnor and Turr) and it was awesome! All three had Royal Guard Title, Autothrusters, Stealth Device and PtL. To be fair I lost, but that was because I was up against a dedicated crash and stress Decimator for the first time. I obviously knew what it was going to do on a theoretical level but it's quite a difference between theoretical and practical knowledge. Autothrusters WILL make interceptors much more interesting and fun to play though I can't say if it will make them competitive enough.

well i tried a Fat Han(Predator,engine,Luke,C3PO,MF) with 3 Bandits against Soontir(PTL,Stealth,Autothrusters), Carnor Jax(PTL,Stealth,Autothrusters) and Royal Guard(PTL,Stealth,Autothrusters) and took down the Rebels without losing stealth on any of the Interceptors even with Luke.

I agree. If I have a Fel/Whisper, the rest of my fleet is going to destroy Vader before he get close enough to get a crit on me.

Do you honestly believe you will do 16 points of damage to a Decimator before it can get off even 1 hit with Vader?

I'm highly skeptical of Vader Decimator lists. Even this one with Kirk. I'm not sold that the points you are putting into it are going to help you to be defensive enough to withstand a barrage of heavy fire.

With Isard, Vader and Moff JJ on Kirk you are at 53. What else are you typically putting on him for an EPT? Are you using EI? Also what kind of support are you giving your Decimator?

Again I'm skeptical but I've been wrong many times before.

100 Points

Give it a try.

Back on topic, AT's are an awesome bandaid. The ones with teddy-bears on them and neosporin on the gauze. Squints/A's will still occasionally roll blanks and get 1-shotted, but at least its far less likely to happen.

I have been running the crazy eights with Autothrusters and have found them to be a handful with Autothrusters.

4x RGT + VI + Autothrusters.

While I'm very excited to try the upgrade on A's and Squints I'm even more excited to try it on the StarViper and IG-2000. While the IG could probably benefit from the option of barrel-roll, the fact that Evade is an option makes it a pretty attractive option with sensor upgrades alongside cannon slots. Playing either craft (with the required upgrade of Virago) is actually looking viable as a tank build while making use of Accuracy Corrector or Fire Control System to hit hard while using arc dodging techniques with Focus and Evade as backup. Additionally, the other options of illicit upgrades like Hot Shot Blaster, Inertial Dampeners and the self damaging upgrade that deals you an ion token all start to look even more worthwhile when out of arc. It is a good, but not perfect upgrade for two points, but it does make me think.

I agree. If I have a Fel/Whisper, the rest of my fleet is going to destroy Vader before he get close enough to get a crit on me.

Do you honestly believe you will do 16 points of damage to a Decimator before it can get off even 1 hit with Vader?

I'm highly skeptical of Vader Decimator lists. Even this one with Kirk. I'm not sold that the points you are putting into it are going to help you to be defensive enough to withstand a barrage of heavy fire.

With Isard, Vader and Moff JJ on Kirk you are at 53. What else are you typically putting on him for an EPT? Are you using EI? Also what kind of support are you giving your Decimator?

Again I'm skeptical but I've been wrong many times before.

100 Points

23 points

Howlrunner

Wingman, Stealth Device

59 points

Commander Kenkirk

Marksmanship, Darth Vader, Ysanne Isard, Moff Jerjerrod, Experimental Interface

18 points

Black Squadron Pilot

Draw Their Fire, Hull Upgrade

Give it a try.

In all honesty that doesn't look very scary.

If you are using Howl to pull stress off the Decimator so that you can consistently trigger your normal action, Isard and Marksmanship via EI she will not be able to stay in an attack position, she will be trailing. Meanwhile you are forced into the same quandary w/ your Black Squadron where you can try and keep up with the other two to use DTF to keep the others alive or stay in attack position. It's impossible to fly TIES in attack formation w/ a large base turret ship like a Decimator and also make use of the buffers they are providing.

You would be far better off with Whisper instead of the 2 TIE's imo.

Or dump EI and Marksmanship and stick w/ Predator to go along w/ Howl for some non action dependent dice modifiers.

Having 1 agility via Kenkirk plus 1 evade token from Isard is only going to slow your opponents attacks down slightly and unless you cut down their ships quickly you are still going to be taking a lot of damage and there are just way too many bad match ups for this list the way I see it.

Take the Crazy 8's list mentioned by Darph Nader above. That's four PS8 Interceptors to deal with. Or how about 4 Blue Squadrons plus a Bandit? I just don't see how you can take some of these ships out quick enough before you are crippled.

I think Autothruster Interceptors would eat TIE Swarms alive. 2 dice just isn't very good when the target can (1) jump out of your arc entirely or (2) have a very good chance of getting evade(s).

Autothrusters will only trigger against Ties at range three so they don't really suffer much. You lose the rare range 3 hit but that is it.

Excluding turret considerations, Autothrusters are going to be just as incredible defensively as Mercenary Copilot is offensively.

Is the general consensus that autothrusters will be just as worthwhile against non-turreted ships?

Is the general consensus that autothrusters will be just as worthwhile against non-turreted ships?

When playing against non-turreted ships the Autothrusters shouldn't be needed much as the Squints need to arc dodge more than stay at rnage 3 to get the use of Autothrusters.

For one off games the Autothrusters won't matter much unless you are up against a turreted ship but in a tournament where you will play several games and you WILL face turrets they will be good.

I'm unsure.

The way I see it, a 'proper' royal guard interceptor has a shield upgrade and a hull upgrade (I mean in background - I'm not claiming that's especially awesome in game). If you're going to trade out the hull upgrade for the thrusters, then you've got to successfully use it once to pay for itself compared to 'just taking the hit'.

In an event where you can expect to see a load of turrets - either a big, competitive tournament, or (as in last weekend) the first game night kit after the outrider and decimator appeared on the shelves - then my Royal Guard would have loved autothrusters. Even against the non-turreted opponent I faced, knowing that a boost/barrel roll combination would push me out of range 2, would have made them even more of a bugger to hit than they already are.

Would I take them as standard fit..... probably not.

But the one change I am considering is replacing one Royal Guard Pilot with Kir Kanos with Autothrusters and a Stealth Device. Since Kanos wants to lurk at long range anyway, putting him in a ship which racks up 5 defence dice plus an automatic pass result makes him nigh invulnerable to primary weapons, and 4 dice with a pass is pretty hard to punch through even for a heavy laser cannon.

That also saves me a couple of points, and choice of initiative is good for Royal Guard.

The Crazy 8's look awesome, though. I've tried four Push The Limit interceptors - 4 PS8 ones should be **** fun to use too.

i want to put auto thrusters on a decimator..just saying..lol