Autothrusters, the long awaited promise to helping arc dodgers work in a turret-rich environment has been spoiled for some time now. Has anybody tested it out, both against turrets and without? If so, how has it worked out?

just rolling some dice around, it is big enough of a deal to give

Soontir PTL Auto into an okay ship even against a turret.

Soontir PTL Auto Stealth Device is nigh untouchable and will last you all game vs Fat Han.

verdict: ITS WONDERFUL.

Also encourages stealth device which is awesome.

with 3 green dice, you won't evade all of Han's shots, assuming 1 F 1 E. You will last about half the game.

with 4, you are golden. You will last about the same time as Fat Han.

This should also spell the end for double falcon, no gunner builds.

Does terrible against decimators with gunner and vader...

A-wing:

-green squadron

--PTL

--Predator

--Refit

--A-wing Test Pilot

--Autothrusters

Assuming my math is correct, its 25 points. Is it better than a dagger squadron with fcs or a red squadron with an r2?

I would say: maybe. It defenatly is tankyer.

Edit: forgot refit

A-wing:

-green squadron

--PTL

--Predator

--A-wing Test Pilot

--Autothrusters

Assuming my math is correct, its 25 points. Is it better than a dagger squadron with fcs or a red squadron with an r2?

I would say: maybe. It defenatly is tankyer.

*... A-wing addict perks up*

You can swap predator out for basicly anything, like Veteran Instincts for PS 5, or expert handling for a barrel roll, or outmaneuver, although I view predator as better than outmaneuver.

You can swap predator out for basicly anything, like Veteran Instincts for PS 5, or expert handling for a barrel roll, or outmaneuver, although I view predator as better than outmaneuver.

Given the A-Wing's 2 dice attack, predator might not be a great option. In the other hand, Autothrusters makes you commit to being outside firing arcs, so outmaneuver basically means you're doubling down on that. Not a bad thing!

Tried it out and ended up avoiding around 5 damage through out the game. Was playing Soontier and at one point in the game I rolled all blanks at range 3 with a stealth device vs a hit and crit from a decimator. Was able to avoid the damage with a evade token and autothrusters.

This upgrade is going to be awesome.

I've played a few games with them. Oddly, two games they didn't get used once. They definitely kept me alive longer in my other games, but a few all blank rolls can still take you down.

I've been busy proxying Y-wings with titles and Z's with Deadman Switch, i'll add autothrusters to my plate this week. My imperial collection isn't as extensive as my Rebels, **** shortages, so i havent run many interceptors.

So I'm in the "A-wings and Interceptors should always have Push the Limit" group, but I think Autothrusters(and Stealth Device if able) with Lone Wolf would be entertaining to see.

I've been busy proxying Y-wings with titles and Z's with Deadman Switch, i'll add autothrusters to my plate this week. My imperial collection isn't as extensive as my Rebels, **** shortages, so i havent run many interceptors.

Both my local BnN's have Ints and Imp Aces in stock at all times.

...although I view predator as better than outmaneuver.

+1 Re-roll of 1 attack die in most cases, vs -1 agility die on your victim if you're out of their arc?

I think I'd rather have the penetration, though I'd need the PS to have the proper positioning to use it.

However, let's look at the math, shall we?

Assuming that you're not shooting at a Swarm, and therefore don't meet the PS requirements for a double activation, we have two trees to examine: A world in which you also are Focused, and a world in which you are not.

Possible Result Master List (Numbers are out of 8^3, or 512. This is the base for rolling 3d8, incidentally)

CCC 1, CCH 9, CCF 6, CC0 6, CHH 27, CHF 36, CH0 36, CFF 12, CF0 24, HHH 27, HHF 54, HH0 54, HFF 24, HF0 72, FFF 8, FF0 24, F00 24, 000 8

If focused, the following times are when Predator will be thought about: CCF, CC0, CHF, CH0, CF0, HHF, HH0, HF0, FF0, F00, 000.

Of the ones that I am thinking of using predator with a single F result, you have a 50% chance of keeping your token vs a 25% chance of simply losing that damage. Its worth considering.

Anyway, that's a total of 222 when Predator has been useless on the roll, when focused.

When it's working, it has a 75% chance to turn roll a Focus or better. Add 1/4 of the times its useful to the "Not useful" pile, as it rolled a Blank.

Also, remove all instances of a rerolled Focus coming back as a Focus (1/4 of CCF, CHF, and HHF)

If focused, 318.5 of no additional damage vs 193.5 of one more damage.

If unfocused, the following times are when Predator will be used: CCF, CC0, CHF, CH0, CFF, CF0, HHF, HH0, HFF, HF0, H00, FFF, FF0, F00, and 000. TL;DM is 37/512 you'll not use a re-roll at all.

However, the remaining figures are still divided by half (the fail-rate of a non-focused Predator).

If unfocused, 274.5 of doing nothing vs 237.5 of one more damage.

Note that with both of these, the greater your opponents' agility, the more that these suffer, as the times in which it gives you a Third damage are far outnumbered by the times in which it gives you your First damage, which will be more likely blocked.

Contrast this with the known quantity of a single agility die:

192 or 320, depending on whether they've focused.

Removing this gives you that much damage, except when they've outnumbered your damage output, or when they've rolled no damage at all.

Also, Outmaneuver can ensure that C3P0 doesn't activate against you, excepting when you've allowed a Joust to occur.

So: Predator (ignoring the defender's agility) barely works better than Outmaneuver (ignoring the defender's upgrades and positioning).

Looks like it's slightly in Predator's favor. Huh. Still gonna take Lone Wolf over it, though

if only i could have four PTL lone wolf autothrusting a-wings!

Thanks for the math, and it seems it is in predators favor. I mostly viewed it as better because attack dice are stronger than defense dice, and a green is only PS3. now, the question is, is a green with veteran instincts better than a green with predator (and saves 2 points)?

Well what will PS 5 beat/tie with that 3 won't? Answer: Not much. Daggers maybe? Biggs? Right now the only thing i can think of is Oicunn that's a serious threat, but even then moving after him is actually worse since he wants to ram into you.
I dunno, maybe it'll look better after scum comes out, with all the PS 5 pilots they have.

I think a MathWing analysis would be most useful. Alas, I don't know how to do MathWing.

Does terrible against decimators with gunner and vader...

Head to head you are absolutely correct.

That being said, my hunch is that Decimator + Vader lists will be a flash in the pan and never be competitive in a tournament. I think it's simply going to come up against too many lists that can shred it way too quickly regardless of whether you pop Vader or not (and you will).

The cheapest you can get into that particular setup is 48 points. If you opt for a named Decimator you will likely be pumping WAY more into it than that. Taking out 1 Interceptor with Autothrusters is one thing. Taking out multiple before meeting your demise is another, particularly if you pop Vader twice per attack sequence.

Wow, I thought that poster was talking about Decimator + Vader in a TIE Advanced, so I was giving him the benefit of the doubt and trying to puzzle out what the combo was I was missing, but...ya think he means a Doom Vader? In a Decimator?!? What the....

No.

Just...I mean, no. That's a terrible idea. That's an INSANE number of points to pour into a ship that is designed to die. And the 2-to-1 trade for defense makes it a poor choice, anyway. I mean, a Decimator + Gunner + Vader runs 48 points and lands you (presuming the enemy somehow never lands a shot on an agility-0 target) only 8 possible crits. A bog-standard 'Doomshuttle' runs half that, at 24 points, and you'll get 5 crits out of it before it runs out of ability to absorb Vader's rage. Even if you throw gunner on it for the same double-tap effect, you are still getting 63% of the crits for only 60% of the cost.

And all that assuming an equally-focused enemy. A Doom-Decimator is literally half your lists points, and has no ability to deflect any incoming damage. It's going to be priority #1 for any enemy - and with good reason! It will almost win the match for them, on its own, in going down. A Doomshuttle, on the other hand, is never even going to be 1/3 of your points, often (without gunner) not even 1/4 of them. You'll have bigger fish to fry for the enemy to shoot at, which helps it survive until it burns itself out. (Heck, even putting Howlrunner on the table - although far cheaper - next to a Doomshuttle, will see her the primary target of most enemies. That will never happen with a 48-pt Decimator + Vader.)

Does terrible against decimators with gunner and vader...

Head to head you are absolutely correct.

That being said, my hunch is that Decimator + Vader lists will be a flash in the pan and never be competitive in a tournament. I think it's simply going to come up against too many lists that can shred it way too quickly regardless of whether you pop Vader or not (and you will).

The cheapest you can get into that particular setup is 48 points. If you opt for a named Decimator you will likely be pumping WAY more into it than that. Taking out 1 Interceptor with Autothrusters is one thing. Taking out multiple before meeting your demise is another, particularly if you pop Vader twice per attack sequence.

I respectfully disagree. Vader+Moff JJ on Cap Kirk has been pretty nasty so far. One of the biggest issues with Yssane and Kirk is that you need to have at least 1 damage card for them to activate, meaning if you happen to lose all 4 shields, you can still end up taking 4+ hits before getting the chance to evade. Using Vader to strip off shields gives you a lot more control over those abilities. Ideally Vader can knock off your last shield and dish out 1 card by the 2nd round, but its still better to take 1 or 2 self-inflected hits than take 3-4 unshielded hits. You can then sac him as soon as a nasty crit pops up. This helps you get Ysanne and Kirk's abilities to activate quickly while giving you an extra upgrade to drop for JJ. I've found that Vader can ironically make Kirk a lot tankier.

Does terrible against decimators with gunner and vader...

Head to head you are absolutely correct.

That being said, my hunch is that Decimator + Vader lists will be a flash in the pan and never be competitive in a tournament. I think it's simply going to come up against too many lists that can shred it way too quickly regardless of whether you pop Vader or not (and you will).

The cheapest you can get into that particular setup is 48 points. If you opt for a named Decimator you will likely be pumping WAY more into it than that. Taking out 1 Interceptor with Autothrusters is one thing. Taking out multiple before meeting your demise is another, particularly if you pop Vader twice per attack sequence.

I respectfully disagree. Vader+Moff JJ on Cap Kirk has been pretty nasty so far. One of the biggest issues with Yssane and Kirk is that you need to have at least 1 damage card for them to activate, meaning if you happen to lose all 4 shields, you can still end up taking 4+ hits before getting the chance to evade. Using Vader to strip off shields gives you a lot more control over those abilities. Ideally Vader can knock off your last shield and dish out 1 card by the 2nd round, but its still better to take 1 or 2 self-inflected hits than take 3-4 unshielded hits. You can then sac him as soon as a nasty crit pops up. This helps you get Ysanne and Kirk's abilities to activate quickly while giving you an extra upgrade to drop for JJ. I've found that Vader can ironically make Kirk a lot tankier.

Star Wars turned upside down! Because of Vader´s incompetence and damaging his own ship he gets Force Choked by Moff JJ after running out of his usefulness!

Well, if you watch the deleted scenes from Return of the Jedi there is a scene where Moff J stands up to Vader to follow the Emperor's order. He is backed up by two Royal Guards so perhaps his command is strong enough to get the pilot of the Decimator to open the airlock and drop Vader.

Does terrible against decimators with gunner and vader...

Head to head you are absolutely correct.

That being said, my hunch is that Decimator + Vader lists will be a flash in the pan and never be competitive in a tournament. I think it's simply going to come up against too many lists that can shred it way too quickly regardless of whether you pop Vader or not (and you will).

The cheapest you can get into that particular setup is 48 points. If you opt for a named Decimator you will likely be pumping WAY more into it than that. Taking out 1 Interceptor with Autothrusters is one thing. Taking out multiple before meeting your demise is another, particularly if you pop Vader twice per attack sequence.

I respectfully disagree. Vader+Moff JJ on Cap Kirk has been pretty nasty so far. One of the biggest issues with Yssane and Kirk is that you need to have at least 1 damage card for them to activate, meaning if you happen to lose all 4 shields, you can still end up taking 4+ hits before getting the chance to evade. Using Vader to strip off shields gives you a lot more control over those abilities. Ideally Vader can knock off your last shield and dish out 1 card by the 2nd round, but its still better to take 1 or 2 self-inflected hits than take 3-4 unshielded hits. You can then sac him as soon as a nasty crit pops up. This helps you get Ysanne and Kirk's abilities to activate quickly while giving you an extra upgrade to drop for JJ. I've found that Vader can ironically make Kirk a lot tankier.

Star Wars turned upside down! Because of Vader´s incompetence and damaging his own ship he gets Force Choked by Moff JJ after running out of his usefulness!

Well, if you watch the deleted scenec from Return of the Jedi there is a scene where Moff J stands up to Vader to follow the Emperor's ordr. He is backed up bt two Royal Guards so perhaps his command is trong enough to get the pilot of the Decimator to open the airlock and drop Vader.

Nice, I didn´t know that one. You have a link somewhere floating around?

One thing that people forget about Vader is you don't have to use him after every attack. I fact using him against shields is really kind of dumb. If you run him on a Decimator, I would just use him when necessary to land a crit on a high-value target. Someone like Fel, Horn, Whisper, etc. The 3 points you spend on Vader and the 2 damage he deals to you can be well-worth it when you land a direct hit on Whisper.

But to get back on topic Autothursters are awesome.