Hey miniatures games have tokens all the time. See almost any Clix game, most dungeon crawler minis games etc.

But it does seem strange to have cardboard tokens for characters, when this isn't even a board game, but a MINIATURES game.

Whatever they have to do to get around Hasbro's license.

yeah,

Hey miniatures games have tokens all the time. See almost any Clix game, most dungeon crawler minis games etc.

Normally tokens are used to track wounds and character status.
Not to mark where a miniature should be.

Panic...

But it does seem strange to have cardboard tokens for characters, when this isn't even a board game, but a MINIATURES game.

Man, this is almost signature worthy haha.

I seriously don't understand the point of view of those trying to defend the tokens.

It's like if the X-wing core set came with two TIE fighter miniatures and a cardboard standup of the X-wing.

I release this is only a miniatures game due to licensing issues. The skirmish game is essentially an add on to the game they really wanted to make. So, I view it just like Descent. I'm not annoyed that Lt.s are only cardboard in the actual expansions, so I'm not annoyed here.

But it does seem strange to have cardboard tokens for characters, when this isn't even a board game, but a MINIATURES game.

Man, this is almost signature worthy haha.

I seriously don't understand the point of view of those trying to defend the tokens.

It's like if the X-wing core set came with two TIE fighter miniatures and a cardboard standup of the X-wing.

That reasoning can easily be reversed. You could also say that it's like the X-Wing core set came with plastic minis for the TIEs and the X-Wing, and also cardboard standup tokens for the Tie Bombers and A-Wings (Wave 2). That is, in Imperial Assault we have tokens to represent minis which have not even been released yet. FFG could have just as easily left those characters out of the core game. So rather than complain that I have to get the minis later, I'm just glad that I have the cards and tokens already now. It's like an early birthday present. I agree that the tokens aren't even 1/10 as cool as the minis, but I guess I prefer to see things from a glass-half-full perspective.

We are clearly encouraged to buy the expansion (ally/villain) packs. That's the optimal way to play, for sure. But if for some reason we choose not to, we can still play with the cardboard tokens. My kids and I have had a blast playing Descent 2.0, and we're using just the included cardboard tokens for the Lieutenants. It hasn't killed our immersion or excitement at all. We have the Conversion Kit and so we don't have the actual minis for all of the 1st Edition creatures/heroes. But it doesn't matter...the Ettins (2e) look close enough to Giants (1e), so we work with it. Same deal with the Lieutenants. And IMHO, it's the same deal with the Ally/Villain pack characters.

But it does seem strange to have cardboard tokens for characters, when this isn't even a board game, but a MINIATURES game.

Man, this is almost signature worthy haha.

I seriously don't understand the point of view of those trying to defend the tokens.

It's like if the X-wing core set came with two TIE fighter miniatures and a cardboard standup of the X-wing.

That reasoning can easily be reversed. You could also say that it's like the X-Wing core set came with plastic minis for the TIEs and the X-Wing, and also cardboard standup tokens for the Tie Bombers and A-Wings (Wave 2). That is, in Imperial Assault we have tokens to represent minis which have not even been released yet. FFG could have just as easily left those characters out of the core game.

This it's not an unfinished product. It's extras onto the original product.

But it does seem strange to have cardboard tokens for characters, when this isn't even a board game, but a MINIATURES game.

Man, this is almost signature worthy haha.

I seriously don't understand the point of view of those trying to defend the tokens.

It's like if the X-wing core set came with two TIE fighter miniatures and a cardboard standup of the X-wing.

That reasoning can easily be reversed. You could also say that it's like the X-Wing core set came with plastic minis for the TIEs and the X-Wing, and also cardboard standup tokens for the Tie Bombers and A-Wings (Wave 2). That is, in Imperial Assault we have tokens to represent minis which have not even been released yet. FFG could have just as easily left those characters out of the core game.

This it's not an unfinished product. It's extras onto the original product.

But it is an unfinished product. The campaign requires you to use characters that don't have miniatures. This is a miniatures game.

The spin-off example given above doesn't work because we are talking about content that is needed for the core campaign.

The A-wing and Tie Bomber are purely expansion based (independent from the core set), something that I wish IA adopted.

Panic mentioned it in the OP post: Boba Fett is a character that doesn't appear in the campaign. Perfect idea for an expansion (additional content to keep things fresh, not content to replace tokens).

Yes, I realize you get additional command cards with the expansions but we are talking about the tokens here

Again, this is clearly a miniatures game only by necessity. Or did you miss the months it was listed under Boardgames. Yes, it would be nice to get the miniatures. But, how much are you willing to pay for them? We are probably talking about $2-3 per miniature, much more if you include the AT-ST. This is already a $100 game. You can't add much more before you break people's willingness to pay for it.

I'm simply suggesting that every character represented by a token should have been left out of the game. Save them all for expansions.

Solutions? Fantasy Flight finds a way to produce cheaper miniatures or find a way to increase replay value/appeal with a smaller pool of characters.

I hope most people realize my comment above was in jest.

And to be honest, the way they put it together is brilliant, marketing-wise. They're going to make a killing, and I'm happy to be chipping in for it.

For those who want to just see it as a boardgame, they can, and they will get a fuller game experience with the cardboard token characters there, rather than not.

For miniature gamers, they understand that this is a Core Set, something to be expanded on, and are going to jump in and grab the expansions anyway.

But it does seem strange to have cardboard tokens for characters, when this isn't even a board game, but a MINIATURES game.

Man, this is almost signature worthy haha.

I seriously don't understand the point of view of those trying to defend the tokens.

It's like if the X-wing core set came with two TIE fighter miniatures and a cardboard standup of the X-wing.

That reasoning can easily be reversed. You could also say that it's like the X-Wing core set came with plastic minis for the TIEs and the X-Wing, and also cardboard standup tokens for the Tie Bombers and A-Wings (Wave 2). That is, in Imperial Assault we have tokens to represent minis which have not even been released yet. FFG could have just as easily left those characters out of the core game.

This it's not an unfinished product. It's extras onto the original product.

But it is an unfinished product. The campaign requires you to use characters that don't have miniatures. This is a miniatures game.

The spin-off example given above doesn't work because we are talking about content that is needed for the core campaign.

The A-wing and Tie Bomber are purely expansion based (independent from the core set), something that I wish IA adopted.

Panic mentioned it in the OP post: Boba Fett is a character that doesn't appear in the campaign. Perfect idea for an expansion (additional content to keep things fresh, not content to replace tokens).

Yes, I realize you get additional command cards with the expansions but we are talking about the tokens here

How is it unfinished if you can play the complete package without needing extra pieces. The miniatures for these dudes are optional. You can use the tokens to complete the campaign so the requirement to use them is not a problem other than those that refuse to use tokens. Guess what if you are buying the core set of a miniatures game that for months has been known to have token characters the why are you complaining?

I'm simply suggesting that every character represented by a token should have been left out of the game. Save them all for expansions.

Solutions? Fantasy Flight finds a way to produce cheaper miniatures or find a way to increase replay value/appeal with a smaller pool of characters.

So you suggestion is that FFG offer less content while also cutting themselves out of the market for gamers that only look for single box products, won't buy expansions, and yet still want replayability? Your suggestion is going to be a non-starter for FFG.

Yeah,

Why didn't they make starwars the token game?

Sell it for £30 and sell all the minis separately??

Because no one wants that!

I paid £72, and I love my copy of Imperial assault.

That doesn't stop it feeling incomplete.

I added up the expansion pack costs required to replace the tokens...

I need to spend another £70 to get the missing miniatures.

That doesn't seem fair.

Panic...

My problem is not with the boxed game. There's a lot of minis and MANY MANY hours of game time in it. I feel like I get what I paid for.

The real problem for me is that the value og the ally/villain packs seems low. Combined the packs are going to as much as the base game costs and they do not nealy providede the same amount of content or game time

But it is an unfinished product. The campaign requires you to use characters that don't have miniatures. This is a miniatures game.

The spin-off example given above doesn't work because we are talking about content that is needed for the core campaign.

The A-wing and Tie Bomber are purely expansion based (independent from the core set), something that I wish IA adopted.

Panic mentioned it in the OP post: Boba Fett is a character that doesn't appear in the campaign. Perfect idea for an expansion (additional content to keep things fresh, not content to replace tokens).

Yes, I realize you get additional command cards with the expansions but we are talking about the tokens here

Except it isn't a miniatures game. It is a board game that happens to use miniatures (ala descent, Warhammer Quest and Space Hulk). They have simply branded it a miniatures game in order to not make it a "board game" as they only have the rights to "miniatures games". It may even be that the skirmish game system is an additional fop to this (or they may have always wanted to do a Star Wars skirmish system).

The test for this is: Can the game be played in an identical manner with flat counters? As the case of these counters demonstrates this is entirely the case. A true miniatures game cannot be played without miniatures and 3d terrain.

I'am french so escuse my english

I want add my point of view. Many people say in this post : "the miniature are not obligatory, you have token to play".

So, but, you can play at Warhammer 40.000 with token too......

It's not the question. We want (and FFG announce) a MINIATURE board game (sell 100€ .....). I think they should have add miniature, even if incrase the price to 10 or 15€/$.

I'am french so escuse my english

I want add my point of view. Many people say in this post : "the miniature are not obligatory, you have token to play".

So, but, you can play at Warhammer 40.000 with token too......

It's not the question. We want (and FFG announce) a MINIATURE board game (sell 100€ .....). I think they should have add miniature, even if incrase the price to 10 or 15€/$.

Thank you, another one that sees the light

I agree with ya, I don't know why people are picking up this game if the "figures are optional."

Just buy some grid paper, a few markers and some beads and you are good to go haha.

I also want to reiterate that I'm only bringing up this compliant because: the campaign requires you to use these tokens.

If the token characters were included for the skirmish mode only I'd be one happy camper: people who are comfortable using the tokens in their skirmish builds can do so while players who are not comfortable using them can leave them out (until the figures are released).

Whats wrong with the game requiring you to use the tokens provided I just don't understand your argument.

Whats wrong with the game requiring you to use the tokens provided I just don't understand your argument.

... Because every other character has a detailed, badass looking figure that looks great on the table, especially when painted. Because we ALL love cool looking toys. Because you'd be hard pressed to find people who prefer the tokens over the miniatures.

Why is it so hard to understand that mixing flat tokens with detailed miniatures is not very appealing for some?

OK, let's try to start with some common ground. I'm pretty sure we can all agree that it would be way cooler if the core set came with all of the miniatures. Minis are cooler than cardboard tokens. That's pretty easy to agree on.

But are people seriously arguing that they would rather not have Han, Chewbacca, etc., in the core campaign than use tokens for them? Now, I'll admit, I probably won't be using tokens for most of the characters that don't come in the core set. I have my old Wizards of the Coast minis that I can use as stand-ins for Han, Chewie, and Rebel troopers until I get the expansions. Other people might use Lego minifigs as proxies. You can even use other figures in the core set as proxies, provided you don't need the other figure for the same mission: Royal Guard for Royal Guard Champion, AT-ST for General Weiss, etc. None of these are perfect solutions, but in my opinion they're a whole lot better than FFG setting the MSRP for the core set at $188US.

If they had to provide minis for all the tokens and not "just" for the essentials (heroes and imperial deployment units) the price of the game would go up significantly. I would love if they provided more minis for the same price, but that would not never happen. They had to make a cut somewhere and they decided to only provided minis for heroes and deployment units and I think that's pretty fair.

Whats wrong with the game requiring you to use the tokens provided I just don't understand your argument.

... Because every other character has a detailed, badass looking figure that looks great on the table, especially when painted. Because we ALL love cool looking toys. Because you'd be hard pressed to find people who prefer the tokens over the miniatures.

Why is it so hard to understand that mixing flat tokens with detailed miniatures is not very appealing for some?

Being not appealing is not the same as being incomplete.

Yes we all love bad-ass looking minis but they don't add functionality to the game. There is no mechanic missing from the game by having a token as a stand in to lower the cost of entry to the game.

But are people seriously arguing that they would rather not have Han, Chewbacca, etc., in the core campaign than use tokens for them?

Yes, Yes, that's exactly my point!

The bar has been set with highly detailed minis. We all love the detailed minis. Some of us are paying the premium price because of the detailed figures included with the game.

Why do we have to apologetically accept the poor representations of some of our favourite characters that we are forced to use in the campaign?

You either include them into the game at the same level as every other character (AKA a figure) or you leave them out entirely and save them for expansions.

We all love these extra characters. More the merrier. But you either do it right or don't do it all.

Now excuse me while I finish up my Battle of Hoth game. I'll include 1 detailed figure of Luke... man it's awesome. But I'll just throw in a bag of white pebbles for the stormtroopers. You guys clearly don't mind. It's a stormtrooper! Look at it! It has nothing to do with the mechanics of the game, perfectly acceptable. Goodness, if I included all the stormtroopers that would cost me a fortune, so it's obvious why I used the pebbles instead.

Now who wants to send me some money

But your example is a poor comparison. A vast majority of the figures are included and a few are tokens. It's not like we got 5 minis and 70 token figures.

It's more like we got 50 minis and 10-11 token characters.

The way these figures and tokens are distributed is no different than Descent or many of the other dungeon crawl scenario miniatures board games, so I don't see why it's a complaint here. They may not be as cool looking but they are no less useable. They serve their function a stand in to be used unless the gamer wants to purchase add on packages.