Ok, who would you pick to win these matchups:

1. Every single named Imperial Pilot vs Every single named Rebel pilot. NO UPGRADES.

2. Same battle as before, but each ship takes as many upgrades as allowed. (No point restrictions)

3. All the PS7 - PS9 of the Empire vs PS7- PS9 of the Rebels

4. Same as #3 but everyone loaded to the gills with upgrades.

Bonus Round: #2 and #4 again but this time you can consider unreleased upgrades (i.e. autothrusters)

In my experience, the rebel ace ships tend to win mirror matches against their imperial counterparts

Rebel named pilot average cost is higher for a reason. Rebels would roll over them like a tsunami.

the value of the imperial navy has never been aces enmass. They lack the ability to hold out in a no points restricted environment.

1) You're talking about a Soontir without PTL, a Whisper without ACD, etc, vs Wedge, Coran, Luke... Dude. That's a slaughter. Double tap in some cases.

The Empire will win because good always triumphs over evil.

The Empire will win because good always triumphs over evil.

Quoted for truth!

I never understood the whole 'Empire is really the good guys' argument. I mean, it's fun to call the Rebels terrorists or whatever, but is blowing up planets not supposed to be a pretty unambiguous sign that they are the bad guys?

I never understood the whole 'Empire is really the good guys' argument. I mean, it's fun to call the Rebels terrorists or whatever, but is blowing up planets not supposed to be a pretty unambiguous sign that they are the bad guys?

Please remain where you are so we can send someone to help you understand things.

With the high skill pilots at a base the rebels have 452pts and the empire has 438 i think the rebels have a huge advantage in that their list has two falcons in it along with more effective pilot abilities. But i think its more of an element about who's playing then whats being played.

With all named pilots the rebels hit 870 pts and the empire is 829, id say the advantage is well with the rebels again, keep in mind the rebels have the pilots from the transport release without them the rebels drop to 767.

Might be enough to balance things out to the empires favor? take a long time to play out thats for sure.

The Empire will win because good always triumphs over evil.

I thought it was because good is dumb

The ones in control determine who the good/bad guys are.

Yeah, and RotJ is directly taken from Spain vs the Mayas on Cajamarca, with Luke emulating Francisco Pizarro.

Dirty sneaky rebels.

History is written by the victors...

It is fun to joke who is the good and who is the bad, but really the empire is the ruling power in the galaxy. They are the "good guys" and the rebels are not.

Of course, we are supposed to be rooting for the rebels as they are the underdog here and the eventual victors... that said..history is written by the victors... those dirty rebels probably slandered the good imperials reputation to make themselves out to be heros...

LOL

I've always found interesting social commentary in comparing the Star Wars universe with the 40k universe.

Both are space fantasies that feature a galaxy spanning, human dominant empire ruled by an incredibly powerful psychic who has a force of (what are supposed to be) super elite infantry to enforce his will. Both prominently feature a major rebellion.

The imperium of 40k is guilty of far worse atrocities than the empire, but in the British made 40k the imperium is supposed to be the good guys, while in the American made Star Wars the empire is supposed to be the bad guys.

It's an interesting look at the effects of the imperial vs revolutionary histories of the two cultures. (My Anthropological training showing through).

To be fair to our friends overseas, the 40k Imperium is as "good" as the Imperial Stormtroopers (as shown in the OT) are "elite"

(i.e, in a "there seems to be no alternative" kind of way)

But GW really pushes the idea that the atrocities the imperium commits are fully justified and that they are "the heroes" of the setting.

But GW really pushes the idea that the atrocities the imperium commits are fully justified and that they are "the heroes" of the setting.

I don't think that's the intended perspective.

Sure, if you're reading the imperium fluff then they justify the crap out of themselves. This is to be expected, since any sign of deviancy is heresy and--*BLAM!*

If it's from an imperial perspective, it's pure propaganda. Remember, most of the fluff that justifies atrocities is delivered from an institution whose military doctrines would make the WW2 Soviet Army cringe.

The only faction that seems to be truly white-washed are the space marines (especially the Ultramarines), aka the money-makers of the 40k universe, and the 5th edition gray knights (which are ultramarines + the fevered imagination of an 8 year old trying to design the bestest thing ever)

EDIT: Oh dear, I'm derailing the topic.

My vote's on rebels in all cases. The Empire has the definite dominance of the situational pilot/ship market, while most Rebels are (imo) incredibly solid.

If we brought Scum into the equation, I'd love to vote for them but they'd be hilariously outnumbered

Well you have a Senator from Alderaan that probably still has a pretty big chip on his shoulder that he got passed over for Supreme Chancellor of the Republic. Then he just doesn't really get things his way at all after that, he is disgruntled to say the least. So instead of working out his grievances in the senate and through proper channels. He funds a terrorist organization to attack the Empire and more often then not kill innocent civilians. Which doesn't matter to him as long it's not his people dieing. He uses his contacts in the Senate, he uses classified information he has access to, as a Senator to stage attacks. He is a traitor of the worst kind. Going even further he convinces his people to go along with his madness. They hide and not so secretly support the Rebel Alliance on Alderaan.

So Vader captures the daughter of this traitor, who is just as guilty as her adoptive father with the blood of countless innocents on her hands. She won't give up any information to help stop the terrorist attacks against the innocent people of the Empire. This leaves Tarkin with no choice left but to go to the root the problem, even then the traitor straight up lies. That lie cost the lives of billions of her people. In the end she didn't care about them at all, she was only concerned about the Rebellion and keeping it alive not her own people and home planet. It was terrible that Tarkin had no choice but to use the mobile mining station in such a manner as to destroy a planet, but it was the quickest means to stop Rebellion and in doing so preserve the trillions of lives of so many innocents across the whole of the Empire.

Only because without them the entire human race wold be wiped out by xenos and other external threat. A common trope of grimdark is that there isn't really a classical good side.

Okay. On the one hand, you have all the X-Wing, B-Wing, and Falcons. On the other hand, you have the HWKs and Y-Wings, which kind of require upgrades.

The Empire's first goal is to kill the Rebels Turrets. The casulties they take here determine who wins, as the Empire has an advantage with Arc-Jumping and Evading.