The Phantom Menace: $1,007,044,677

Attack of the Clones: $656,695,615
Revenge of the Sith: $848,998,877

And that all pales before the merchandising revenue.

It's too complex to reach a perfect balance and too dynamic (new waves) to stay there even if you did. Perfect balance is disputed and the imbalance that people complain about on this board is widely exaggerated. Lastly, whatever imbalances that exist is so minimal that it won't matter at the level that most of compete at.

But it's more that just a competitive game. Following that reasoning Magic would only release few cards every time, instead they've realised (and FFG has really taken that lesson to heart) that you need to service all sorts of clients to keep a game viable outside of the playtables of stores. You don't need to service just Timmy and Spike, you need to give Johnny, Melvin and Vorthos something as well.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with what both of you said. I know balance is the hardest thing to do in a game, and there will always be some units/mechanics/upgrades that won't see any game in tournaments (talking also with experience of videogames like warcraft 3 and Starcraft 2). However, in casual play you can play anything you want, no matter if you win or lose, or if you dont build the super-optimate list.

As more as a competitive player, at this point, what I want to say is that the most desirable thing in this game is that you could use your favourite ship(s) in tournament play too, and not having a hard time just for that. For example, if I were an advanced lover, I would like to be able to use my advanced in every tournament I play, and still have a great chance of successing in it.

In few words: winning a tournament is great, but winning with the list/ships you really wanted to use would be awesome.

(not talking about casual play. that doesnt nead fixing and is always great )

P.D.: thats why I stopped playing magic Dagonet. I found that I had tons of useless cards, only generating more and more thrash that will be stuck in dumps over the ages.

The Phantom Menace: $1,007,044,677

Attack of the Clones: $656,695,615

Revenge of the Sith: $848,998,877

And that all pales before the merchandising revenue.

Raw numbers mean nothing unless you allow for inflation and rising ticket prices. .

A movie ticket in 1977 was about $2,25 it looks like.

Well, I think this should be the ultimate objective of any competitive game. The more options viable in a competitive enviroment means more variety among lists, and therefore that would mean more fun. At least IMO.

But it's more that just a competitive game. Following that reasoning Magic would only release few cards every time, instead they've realised (and FFG has really taken that lesson to heart) that you need to service all sorts of clients to keep a game viable outside of the playtables of stores. You don't need to service just Timmy and Spike, you need to give Johnny, Melvin and Vorthos something as well.

Magic releases crap cards because the random buy model means they can pad out the set. Note the lack of intentionally crap cards in the LCGs.

P.D.: thats why I stopped playing magic Dagonet. I found that I had tons of useless cards, only generating more and more thrash that will be stuck in dumps over the ages.

And that's why I still have a big box with thousands and thousands of cards, because I like to tinker with offbeat non-optimal lists. .

Then again, I'm probably a Johnny Vorthos with a smidge of Melvin thrown in.

(The player classifications that Mark Rosewater wrote up for Magic have really helped me pick games for the game group, knowing what kind of players we have and which games would never see play, such as Descent ) I like my games to give me, in effect, a story-like experience, there are also players who like the more abstract. We all like negotiation, cooperation and strategic games with a hint of backstabbing. .

Magic releases crap cards because the random buy model means they can pad out the set. Note the lack of intentionally crap cards in the LCGs.

But even in LCG's there are cards that aren't all that useful in a tournament setting and will hardly ever see play, precisely because you need to service a wider spectrum of players. That is also why the LCG's are going on a set rotation, so new players won't be overwhelmed by older cards not easily available.

I will agree on the condition that C-£P0 only works aginst shots coming from the Falcons fire arc, and that Phantoms only get +2 defence against shots from their fire arc.

Any takers?

Well, I think this should be the ultimate objective of any competitive game. The more options viable in a competitive enviroment means more variety among lists, and therefore that would mean more fun. At least IMO.

But it's more that just a competitive game. Following that reasoning Magic would only release few cards every time, instead they've realised (and FFG has really taken that lesson to heart) that you need to service all sorts of clients to keep a game viable outside of the playtables of stores. You don't need to service just Timmy and Spike, you need to give Johnny, Melvin and Vorthos something as well.

Magic releases crap cards because the random buy model means they can pad out the set. Note the lack of intentionally crap cards in the LCGs.

I could never get into magic, i tried on three occasions. At uni my house mate left to enter the world of work and gave me *thousands* of cards, he played a lot, im sure some must have been good ones but i was too hooked into warhammer so gave em away.

Later when working for GW and a bt sick of warhammer a mate tried again to get me into it and it was 'ok' but never motivaed me enough to buy my own stuff.

Lastly my lodger a few years back is like one of the main referees in the UK magic tourny scene (nice girl called Kim Warren, i think a lot of magic players know her) and i tried again.

I dont know what it is but while i know its a good game, i enjoy playing it to a degree i just dont seem to have the passion for collecting cards that i do with 3d models.

Oddly the old subgame in 'might and magic' that was like magic a bit but you had to build a wall and castle and do dmage to that not the deck had me hooked for months after i finised the game. It was a game you could play in taverns on the pc game... cant remember what it was called. I'd play a real world verison of that.

I think it was called 'arcomage'

These days I just stick to the new duel decks really, don't have the time to keep up with releases and duel decks are two balanced decks designed with the counterpart in mind. It's a great way for my wife and me to easily pick up a deck and start playing. Oh, and the iOS app, that's doable as well. .

Wow i just found it online.

Thats my saturday over then...

http://www.y8.com/games/arcomage

dissapointingly you cant set the victory conditions or skill of the bot so a game is taking me about three minutes to win at the mo.

dissapointingly you cant set the victory conditions or skill of the bot so a game is taking me about three minutes to win at the mo.

There're clones of it over at Kongregate. Can't remember the name though.

Nice one, thanks.

I just remember loving 'might and magic' games that were the 'skyrim' type exploration ones with a 'party' of characters and finding the tavern minigame really good fun.

I'd love a boardgame version of it with tower and wall tokens.

Someone must make one

The more expansions a game has, the harder it is for the developers to keep things balanced. Vader in a Decimator isn't a great example of that, for reasons already specified, but it's something a lot of tournament players should brace for. We already see a lot of talk about Phantoms and Fat Han being the entire meta, and unfortunately the more options available to the competitive crowd the more likely they are to find something that is nearly unbeatable. FFG is pretty good at balancing things, but every new release is a chance that they make a mistake and undercost something.

This sounds pretty doom and gloom, but I don't really care myself. Very much a casual player, most of my lists are constructed on impulses I get while rifling through my pilot cards. With my opponent doing the same across from me. I'm just observing a pattern I've noticed in a lot of other games. It's also one of the reasons that games like Magic have multiple formats, although there are undeniably business advantages to it as well.

A better way to say it is, the more ships and upgrades there are, the harder it is for ships to be equally viable at the top level.

This forum is tourny centric.

In few words: winning a tournament is great, but winning with the list/ships you really wanted to use would be awesome.

(not talking about casual play. that doesnt nead fixing and is always great )

* and probably eventually Accuracy Corrector when the FFG release a title card systems slot