I think that this brings up an interesting question: do you think that FFG would correct/re-balance the cost on a re-print of the ship? It seems an easy fix, seeing at how the ship really isn't playable in a competitive format, what are the chances that they would release either a "corrected" xpac of the ship in subsequent re-stocks or come out with something like the "TIE Defender Mk 2" xpac. Just a thought...

0% chance. Things like cost and stats can't be errata'd.

Also, people are focused too much on the top tier level. Not all ships are going to be gatekeepers in the meta. It is okay for a ship to be a niche ship or more viable in a fun tournament.

Hmm... guess I'll wait for my S&V pirated Defender then. Hehe

I think that this brings up an interesting question: do you think that FFG would correct/re-balance the cost on a re-print of the ship? It seems an easy fix, seeing at how the ship really isn't playable in a competitive format, what are the chances that they would release either a "corrected" xpac of the ship in subsequent re-stocks or come out with something like the "TIE Defender Mk 2" xpac. Just a thought...

0% chance. Things like cost and stats can't be errata'd.

Also, people are focused too much on the top tier level. Not all ships are going to be gatekeepers in the meta. It is okay for a ship to be a niche ship or more viable in a fun tournament.

It's ok to point it out tho, and for developers to aim for it. Chaardan refit wouldn't exist if A-wings were being used at all, and will probably bring us some Tie advanced goodies. While people stay realist with the chances of it happening, and the time it may take, and not becoming whiners in the process, i think it is perfectly fine to do so.

Honestly, I think the Z-95 is just as likely why the Chardaan Refit exists as the complaints.

I didn't mean it's the complains whatwould make the changes or push them, but the developer's will to try to make their ships relevant, instead of just "filling a niche". They could just left the A-wing as a irrelevant competitively speaking ship, but they decided not to, and i think that's healthy for the game and what they should aspire for. And it's enough of a precedent to warrant that they care about the state of the game, and not having useless ships around.

So pointing out Defender's performance, while we are doing this in this thread for us, they are very likely to be aware of it on their own too.

I think its in the developers best interest to try and make all ships playable at a high level. Otherwise we end up with paper, rock, scissors and not much variant in it. It seems there are many complaints of the meta being mostly turrent and phantom ships currently. Now this may not be the case in reality. I had high hopes for the Defender too based on lore. I'm on the side of them being somewhat overcosted too or lacking something for their cost.

I think its in the developers best interest to try and make all ships playable at a high level. Otherwise we end up with paper, rock, scissors and not much variant in it. It seems there are many complaints of the meta being mostly turrent and phantom ships currently. Now this may not be the case in reality. I had high hopes for the Defender too based on lore. I'm on the side of them being somewhat overcosted too or lacking something for their cost.

This. What's the point of having ships that are just for fun? No one runs the Advanced except for the occasional Vader for fun. Losing isn't fun.

I dunno sometimes if you let a girl win you can end up having lots of post match fun.

FYI, on the subject of good cannon platforms, wait until the "Heavy Scyk" comes out. A 21-22 point ship with a Heavy Laser Cannon.

One concern though is paying 9 points to upgrade a 3HP ship you are gonna pay X-wing/B-Wing prices for Tie Fighter Durability (albeit slightly more punch than an X-wing/B-wing)

You're not thinking like a scummy villain. It's 21 points and it has a Big Cannon! Arrrrr!

I think that this brings up an interesting question: do you think that FFG would correct/re-balance the cost on a re-print of the ship? It seems an easy fix, seeing at how the ship really isn't playable in a competitive format, what are the chances that they would release either a "corrected" xpac of the ship in subsequent re-stocks or come out with something like the "TIE Defender Mk 2" xpac. Just a thought...

In the recent Team Covenant interview, the designers had mentioned wishing they had the ability to patch the game "the way League of Legends or Team Fortress 2 does". They specifically mentioned wishing they could buff the HWK's attack from 1 to 2 via patch. But they can't.

The trouble is getting all that cardboard into people's hands, and making sure everyone is up to date. If two people show up at an event with two bits of official FFG cards, that have 2 different things on them... That's a major problem.

By using mods, upgrades, and titles to fix ships, you make it very clear what has priority. This doesn't have to mean power creap, either. If the Defender is (say) 4 points over costed, but gets a zero point title worth 4 points (a free shield or boost upgrade, say), the Defender ends up being "even" without gaining overwhelming power.

A 21 point glass Canon hanging back at range three isn't a bad deal really, if your a fool and dice into cc it'll pop fast, keep it behind four green dice and have a more pressing threats closer it'll do some harm.

I dunno sometimes if you let a girl win you can end up having lots of post match fun.

And if she beats you, you have more fun telling yourself you let her win, and could have won anytime you wanted to.

Except deep in your soul you know better.

Currently Scum and Rebels have ships that can fire twice a turn. I seriously believe an aces pack allowing the Defender to attack twice would balance the Defender and ability disparity.

Something like a Defender only ion cannon that can be fired after a primary attack.

I dunno sometimes if you let a girl win you can end up having lots of post match fun.

And if she beats you, you have more fun telling yourself you let her win, and could have won anytime you wanted to.

Except deep in your soul you know better.

I don't have a soul.

I think its in the developers best interest to try and make all ships playable at a high level. Otherwise we end up with paper, rock, scissors and not much variant in it. It seems there are many complaints of the meta being mostly turrent and phantom ships currently. Now this may not be the case in reality. I had high hopes for the Defender too based on lore. I'm on the side of them being somewhat overcosted too or lacking something for their cost.

This. What's the point of having ships that are just for fun? No one runs the Advanced except for the occasional Vader for fun. Losing isn't fun.

I don't know, why do people like the Epic ships? There are pretty good showings of all ships in the tier 1.5 region, which is the more specialized squads, that can win, but are not necessarily the best options.

If the Defender ends up being like the Advance in the eyes of the player, I will at least be secure in the fact that Vessery slaps the crap out of Vader (provided you have a couple TL capable ships in the squad)

Seriously, dude's a beast.

I really am trying hard to make lists with defenders, but they are just too expensive in points. You want at least 3 very solid ships in a list while playing small ships. And they just dont fit in. You can't take them with other squads, they just take an out of proportion share of points.

You can't play a named pilot with 2 generic for the defender because you already run low on points...

Also what's really garbage is Rexlers ability. There is just no way to give him a second action without stressing him or keeping him in a tight formation... It's totally worthless i was abke to trigger it next to never... And 37 points for that. No thanks.

I want to like the ship, really, but the best lists i can think of are 3 with ion cannons or Prockets, or 2 with HLC together with Jonus.

Rexler works well with a 3 turn out of combat, grabbing a target lock and then a white k with a focus. Lots of good disengage tricks with defenders.

The only ray of hope is maybe Vessery. His ability is useful. Well he is like all the Defenders probably 2 poimts overcosted. But those 2 points hurt the defender more than any other ship i think because they make the difference between a 2-ship and a viable 3-ship list.

I intend on trying this at some time:

DEPHANDERS

100 points

PILOTS

"Echo” (37)

TIE Phantom (30), Fire-Control System (2), Veteran Instincts (1), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Backstabber (16)

Colonel Vessery (47)

TIE Defender (35), Heavy Laser Cannon (7), Veteran Instincts (1), Engine Upgrade (4)

That's why I like Predator with Rexlar. Helps with his offense, and the Focus can be saved for what have you.

Just did a D-P-S run with Vessery, Whisper + ACD + WE + FCS, and a Doom Shuttle. That build was a monster!!! We just isolated one ship at a time in a kill-box and removed it from play. 10 dice + 1 Crit on one target just melts ships like butter.